Enduring to Glorify God - But how?

[ciicii]

I have a lot of thoughts, and everyone has been so kind so I will continue to come for advice and opinions.

My church is reading through the book of James right now and a lot of it speaks on how we are to endure and persevere in trials. And of course, this links to glorifying God by keeping the faith and praising him.

My mind is sort of jumbled and thinks of a lot of things at once. And I remember how God says he is storing up our rewards in heaven and it is based on (for lack of a better word) "what we do". [I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WORKS BASED SALVATION ]

(note* I am a christian and constantly want to give everything to God and work for God. Not to earn my salvation but because if I love you I want to give you everything I possibly can. So this is the foundation of my 'reasoning')

But I am wondering how perserving in trials and keeping the faith honors God if it doesn't become a testimony or help someone else in the future. Like if I keep the faith and then die and no one knows about it, how does that honor God other than just, personal worship. Is that just as honouring to him as being used as a tool to help other come to Christ?

I know worship God is still good, and I think of the verse Matthew 6:1-2 that we should not be doing righteous things performatively, and there are rewards in heaven when you do things only infront of God. But as an example. I get really happy when i can give financially to a church or some kind of christian cause and I don't say anything because it is between me and God. But it is still an action I can see and confirm without a doubt is God and immediate. Where as me growing in my faith is important, growing closer to God is important. But is it glorifying.

I am praying that makes sense, but I am kind of stuck in my thoughts and at a dead end again. I know growing your faith is good and honoring. I know asking "is this good enough" is the wrong question becuase it is not about 'repaying' and we will never be good enough. But God still gives us responsibility and purpose, and expectations to a degree. .....

MATTHEW 6:1-3

6 “Be careful! When you do something good, don’t do it in front of others so that they will see you. If you do that, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “When you give to those who are poor, don’t announce that you are giving. Don’t be like the hypocrites. When they are in the synagogues and on the streets, they blow trumpets before they give so that people will see them. They want everyone to praise them. The truth is, that’s all the reward they will get. 3 So when you give to the poor, don’t let anyone know what you are doing.

 

[passion84god]

But I am wondering how perserving in trials and keeping the faith honors God if it doesn't become a testimony or help someone else in the future. Like if I keep the faith and then die and no one knows about it, how does that honor God other than just, personal worship. Is that just as honouring to him as being used as a tool to help other come to Christ?

The answer to your question is directly related to what type of persevering you are referring to in the Epistle of James. The persevering spoken of here seems to be more personal than related to others.​

James 1:2-4​

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

This type of testing produces patience in you, that you might be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.​

James 1:12​

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Again, by enduring temptation, you will receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love him. At the same, however, your persevering can also benefit others because James also said:​

James 5:10-11​

10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

We can look back to the prophets as examples of suffering and patience, and I believe that people can similarly look at our lives if we endure as they endured. Also, in the same manner that we can look at Job's perseverance to see that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful, I believe that others can look to us as well if we similarly persevere.

I believe that we also see how our persevering of trials benefits both us and others in Peter's first epistle.​

1 Peter 1:5-9​

5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Here, the purifying of your faith through fiery trials will ultimately result in praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ or when he returns. This, to my way of reasoning, is a personal benefit.​

1 Peter 4:12-16​

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Here, your fiery trials pertain directly to partaking of Christ's sufferings. When his glory is revealed, you will also be glad with exceeding joy. When you are reproached for the name of Christ, the Spirit of glory rests upon you, and on your part, God is glorified. However, on the parts of your persecutors, he is blasphemed or evil spoken of. Again, this seems to be a personal benefit. However, that will change at the return of Christ, because Peter also had this to say:​

1 Peter 2:11-12​

11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

The same people who reproach you now for your allegiance to Christ will one day glorify God in the day of visitation in direct relation to your good works that they are observing. With things like these in mind, I believe that persevering in trials is definitely beneficial to you while bringing God glory, potentially beneficial to those who can look to you as an example of persevering, and ultimately that it will bring glory to God even through your persecutors who will have beheld your good works in your lifetime.​

 

[ciicii]

The answer to your question is directly related to what type of persevering you are referring to in the Epistle of James. The persevering spoken of here seems to be more personal than related to others.​

James 1:2-4​

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

This type of testing produces patience in you, that you might be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.​

James 1:12​

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Again, by enduring temptation, you will receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love him. At the same, however, your persevering can also benefit others because James also said:​

James 5:10-11​

10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

We can look back to the prophets as examples of suffering and patience, and I believe that people can similarly look at our lives if we endure as they endured. Also, in the same manner that we can look at Job's perseverance to see that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful, I believe that others can look to us as well if we similarly persevere.

I believe that we also see how our persevering of trials benefits both us and others in Peter's first epistle.​

1 Peter 1:5-9​

5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Here, the purifying of your faith through fiery trials will ultimately result in praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ or when he returns. This, to my way of reasoning, is a personal benefit.​

1 Peter 4:12-16​

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Here, your fiery trials pertain directly to partaking of Christ's sufferings. When his glory is revealed, you will also be glad with exceeding joy. When you are reproached for the name of Christ, the Spirit of glory rests upon you, and on your part, God is glorified. However, on the parts of your persecutors, he is blasphemed or evil spoken of. Again, this seems to be a personal benefit. However, that will change at the return of Christ, because Peter also had this to say:​

1 Peter 2:11-12​

11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

The same people who reproach you now for your allegiance to Christ will one day glorify God in the day of visitation in direct relation to your good works that they are observing. With things like these in mind, I believe that persevering in trials is definitely beneficial to you while bringing God glory, potentially beneficial to those who can look to you as an example of persevering, and ultimately that it will bring glory to God even through your persecutors who will have beheld your good works in your lifetime.​

Thanks for sharing all of this and your time i will reflect

 

[Deuteronomy]

(note* I am a christian and constantly want to give everything to God and work for God. Not to earn my salvation but because if I love you I want to give you everything I possibly can. So this is the foundation of my 'reasoning')

Hello ciicii, that sounds like a pretty good foundation (e.g. Matthew 6:33)

But I am wondering how preserving in trials and keeping the faith honors God if it doesn't become a testimony or help someone else in the future. Like if I keep the faith and then die and no one knows about it, how does that honor God other than just, personal worship?

First off, it's hard for me to imagine that a Christian could "keep the faith" throughout the balance of their life here and then die w/o anyone ever knowing about it (even if we did so poorly and/or inconsistently) Afterall, the Apostle tells us that if we even "desire" to live a godly life in this world, we will be persecuted because we do.

2 Timothy 3​

12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. ​

The world is watching, and godliness is something that is impossible to miss (by those who are still outside of Christ), because it is such a radically different way to think and live.

As a for instance, I became a Christian about 40 years ago (at age 30) and part of the change that happened to me back then was becoming a teetotaler (instead of the heavy drinker that I'd been). I continued to go to the same restaurants however, and a number of people (who knew me pretty well) quickly took note of the change, apparently. I didn't realize that it was a big deal to anyone until I overheard one of the waitresses asking the waitress who was serving me if I'd finally ordered a drink again (she'd served me a sparkling water with a lime twist in it that looked like a mixed beverage, so I guess that was what prompted the question). BTW, this was only the 2nd or 3rd time that I'd ordered a non-alcoholic beverage in that particular restaurant since becoming a Christian about a week or two earlier, but it was clear that those who knew me there had immediately taken note of the fact that I wasn't drinking alcohol anymore.

Now, as far as a Christian who "worships Him", "keeps the faith" and "perseveres under trials", I'm thinking that He is probably pretty good with just that, all by itself Of course, I'm sure that He is also pleased with such choices because He knows that our ongoing desire to live a loving, obedient, godly life before Him DOES end up making a difference in the lives of others too, even when that difference is indirect, unintended and unseen, at first).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

 

[Deuteronomy]

....me growing in my faith is important, growing closer to God is important. But is it glorifying.

Hello again ciicii, yes, of course it is, because He knows that the key to everything else in the Christian life is found in our faithful & ongoing/growing personal relationship with Him, apart from which we can do nothing as Christians (that is truly pleasing or glorifying to Him), because everything that we do (for Him and others) as believers flows from that relationship, yes?

Here's a short little narrative that speaks to this (about what the Lord believes is truly vital for us, and what is not).

Luke 10​

38 As they traveled along, Jesus entered a village where a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home.
39 She had a sister named Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to His message.
40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made, so she came to Jesus and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her to help me!” ​

41“Martha, Martha,” the Lord replied, “you are worried and upset about many things.
42 But only one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, and it will not be taken away from her.” ​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - remember too that there is a correlation between how mature we are in our knowledge and understanding of Him, His word and the Christian faith, and how useful we can be to Him and others as we fight the good fight during our lives here.

 

[God-fearing]

ciicii said:
....me growing in my faith is important, growing closer to God is important. But is it glorifying.

Becoming the person God has called you to be is glorifying God. It is his work and his ways seen through you.
You may not think that your daily routines and conversations with others has a effect on others but it most certainly does.
Just a smile or a warm greeting to a stranger can change the course of that person.
Having integrity, abstaining from certain things you feel unholy about. Seeking God's counsel and wisdom in matters.
It bring joy to the Lord. Grace and blessings to us.
Gods greatest joy is the praises and relationship he so wants with his children. Not some religious effort but a genuine relationship.
He called Abraham his friend, and look at the introduction of job

 

[Mem]

But I am wondering how perserving in trials and keeping the faith honors God if it doesn't become a testimony or help someone else in the future. Like if I keep the faith and then die and no one knows about it, how does that honor God other than just, personal worship. Is that just as honouring to him as being used as a tool to help other come to Christ?

I think of persevering as in terms of continuing in bearing fruit especially when the circumstances challenge you in doing so. The fruit will be a testimony or help to others in themselves, considering the inherent nature of fruit being 'pleasant to the eyes and good for food.' They fruit you bear is love, patience, kindness, gentleness, peace, joy, self-control, goodness, faithfulness. That would help in the present considering who wouldn't appreciate any of that now, and who wouldn't want any of that later? And when you're gone, then people would notice something missing, even if they can't figure out exactly what it is.

 

[timf]

It can be a little bit confusing when one takes what was written to those of Israel under the kingdom gospel and try to apply it to us today under the grace gospel.

Those of Israel were not saved as we thing of it today. If the followed the law they could look forward to the resurrection of the just and then receive their eternal life.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

When Jesus came it was called the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe. (Rom 10:4)

However, those of Israel were still to persevere to the end (Matt 10:22)

In contrast today with the grace gospel both Jew and gentile can receive eternal life the moment we trust in Christ and are place into his body by the Holy Spirit

 

[God-fearing]

For the glory that was set before him Jesus endured the cross.

 

[ciicii]

First off, it's hard for me to imagine that a Christian could "keep the faith" throughout the balance of their life here and then die w/o anyone ever knowing about it (even if we did so poorly and/or inconsistently) Afterall, the Apostle tells us that if we even "desire" to live a godly life in this world, we will be persecuted because we do.

I agree with that. I have shared my faith before, I guess some doubt comes from not seeing the result of that or even knowing you have impacted someone.

teetotaler

I had to look up this word ... I love it

but thank you for sharing sorry for the late reply but I am slowly reading through and you have given me more than expected, i am very grateful for your time.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I have shared my faith before, I guess some doubt comes from not seeing the result of that or even knowing you have impacted someone.

Hello again Sister, the Bible oft times uses agricultural terminology when it speaks of witnessing and evangelism (and apologetics), as I'm sure you know. Terms like planting & watering, sowing & reaping or harvesting, are used (e.g. John 4:35-38, 1 Corinthians 3:6-9), and I believe that this can be very helpful to us when we consider what being a witness, evangelist and/or apologist for God involves.

The Bible also tells us that the ones who plant, water and reap are one, because few, if any, come to saving faith apart from the work that is done by all three. Of course, it's also important to remember that while we are blessed by God to be a part of the process, God is the One who causes the growth, and it is His job to save people, not ours. Instead, our job is to faithfully pray for opportunities to share our faith with others, and to take those opportunities whenever they come our way.

This is why Dr. Greg Koukl (who is an apologist) calls himself a gardener rather than a harvester, and he measures success in witnessing/evangelism/apologetics by the number of seeds that he plants and/or waters, rather than by the number of people who he has prayed with and personally seen come all the way to saving faith.

Here is a short excerpt from one of Dr. Koukl's online articles, Harvester or Gardener.

Years ago, I realized I was not a harvester but a gardener. My efforts for decades—on radio and at public events, speaking in churches and at universities, writing books and articles—have all been, largely, to serve a single end: gardening.​

​

The reason I haven’t personally prayed with someone to receive Christ in over three decades is I haven’t really tried. I’m not in harvesting mode because I’m not a harvester; I’m a gardener. And so, I suspect, are most Christians. They just haven’t thought of themselves that way since the option was never really open to them. ~Koukl, Greg, https://www.str.org/w/harvester-or-gardener-​

I think that you might want to consider doing the same, begin to measure success by the number of people who you've witnessed to, that is (instead of by the number of people who you've personally led all the way to saving faith).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - Dr. Koukl wrote a couple of books about all of this and more. Both are highly acclaimed and (I believe) worth the time that it takes to read them as they will help you, especially with the more difficult aspects of witnessing and evangelism, like witnessing to family and friends (e.g. he will teach you how to use leading questions to share the Gospel, which I believe is called the Socratic method of teaching, so that those who you witness to can discover the answers for themselves).

One book is called Tactics: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions, 10th Anniversary Edition, and his second is called Street Smarts. If you are going to read one or the other, or both, Tactics is probably best book to start with (and you can read a short summary about both of them when you click on their links above, or on the books below). Enjoy

Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15​

 

[Deuteronomy]

One last thing, reaping/harvesting is something that most of us will probably end up putting on the "backburner" (so to speak), but I think that we should continue to, at least, 'keep it on the stove' (instead of removing it) by always being prepared to tell people how they can become believers/come all the way to saving faith in Jesus like we did, if they want to

Also, if one or both of the links to Street Smarts book above is broken (one was for me), here's another copy of it: Street Smarts

 

[SoulFaith]

I have a lot of thoughts, and everyone has been so kind so I will continue to come for advice and opinions.

My church is reading through the book of James right now and a lot of it speaks on how we are to endure and persevere in trials. And of course, this links to glorifying God by keeping the faith and praising him.

My mind is sort of jumbled and thinks of a lot of things at once. And I remember how God says he is storing up our rewards in heaven and it is based on (for lack of a better word) "what we do". [I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WORKS BASED SALVATION ]

(note* I am a christian and constantly want to give everything to God and work for God. Not to earn my salvation but because if I love you I want to give you everything I possibly can. So this is the foundation of my 'reasoning')

But I am wondering how perserving in trials and keeping the faith honors God if it doesn't become a testimony or help someone else in the future. Like if I keep the faith and then die and no one knows about it, how does that honor God other than just, personal worship. Is that just as honouring to him as being used as a tool to help other come to Christ?

I know worship God is still good, and I think of the verse Matthew 6:1-2 that we should not be doing righteous things performatively, and there are rewards in heaven when you do things only infront of God. But as an example. I get really happy when i can give financially to a church or some kind of christian cause and I don't say anything because it is between me and God. But it is still an action I can see and confirm without a doubt is God and immediate. Where as me growing in my faith is important, growing closer to God is important. But is it glorifying.

I am praying that makes sense, but I am kind of stuck in my thoughts and at a dead end again. I know growing your faith is good and honoring. I know asking "is this good enough" is the wrong question becuase it is not about 'repaying' and we will never be good enough. But God still gives us responsibility and purpose, and expectations to a degree. .....

I believe it still glorifies God, even if no one else ever knows about it.

Jesus said that "your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you" (Matthew 6:4, 6, 18). That tells me God values faithfulness that no one else sees.

Hebrews 11 also comes to mind. Many of those who lived by faith "did not receive the things promised" during their lifetime (Hebrews 11:13, 39), yet they were commended because they trusted God. Their faith was precious to Him, even before anyone knew how their lives would encourage future generations.

Job is another example. He remained faithful through terrible suffering, not knowing that his perseverance would one day encourage countless believers (James 5:11). Joseph also faithfully served God in prison for years before God revealed His purpose (Genesis 39–41).

Colossians 3:23–24 also encourages us: "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters... It is the Lord Christ you are serving." That reminds me that our faithfulness is first and foremost for God, not for human recognition.

I think our responsibility is simply to be faithful. Whether God uses our perseverance as a testimony to others or whether it remains something only He sees, both glorify Him because they are acts of love, trust and obedience toward Him.