Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[ATG]

It is pretty ironic to talk about the Spirits law while claiming you had to become sinless on your own before Jesus would even help you.

It is pretty ironic to talk about someone claiming something they never claim, and yet talking about having the Spirit of truth.

Changing what someone says, doesn't justify anyone's argument. No more than changing what Scripture says, justifies anyone's faith-alone.

Rom 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

It is pretty ironic to talk about someone claiming something they never claim, and yet talking about having the Spirit of truth.

Changing what someone says, doesn't justify anyone's argument. No more than changing what Scripture says, justifies anyone's faith-alone.

Rom 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

If you are still a sinner who needs a Savior, then your "whole repentance" hasn't worked yet. If you aren't a sinner, then 1 John 1:8 says the truth is not in you. You are the one changing the truth of God into a lie by acting like your performance is what qualifies you for the Spirit. Faith isn't a lie; it’s the only way a real sinner gets a real Savior.

 

[ATG]

Idiotic questions get the responses they deserve.

Idiotic responses don't answer the questions they deserve.

 

[ATG]

Your reply just confirms my earlier assessment of you.

Your nonreply confirms your assessment of your argument.

 

[ATG]

In the law, you cannot repent of serious transgression against a commandment.

Tell that to David.

Psa 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

And the LORD:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

The ten commandments carry a death penalty.

They did in the nation of Israel, if rightly prosecuted by law. Of course, Jesus was also accused of profaning the Sabbath, with His disciples.

As with uncircumcision in the nation of Israel, is the soul cut off, so also is transgression of the law of Christ, also cut off from His body and house.

If any nation of men also prosecute, then they can be bodily killed, in addition to being spiritually dead. Except they repent before the Lord of their transgression like David, from the heart with godly sorrow.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The law seriously condemns the sinner.

And seriously forbids entering the kingdom of God, nor abiding therein:

Jhn 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

And as in the OT, there were false prophets cut off from the people of God, so in the NT are there false teachers cut off from the body of Christ.

The written law kills.

Only if transgressed, not when obeyed:

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,

I suppose someone confessing transgression and relentless sinning without repentance, would like to write off the law of God by their faith-alone.

Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

Where no law of God is, is no holiness of God. Where no obedience to the law of God is, is no grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

Since it is man that sins, then it man that must repent. Since man can only repent of sinful deeds, then it must be Jesus that takes away the lust of heart.

Therefore, if we repent of all our transgressions that we do, then God sends the Lord Jesus to purge our hearts of lust, which only He can do.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Anyone that does not repent first of sinful deeds, Jesus Christ is not sent to take away lust from the heart. The sinner continues with old lust for sin, and continued transgressions in life.

Likewise, any other gospel promising salvation and life without whole repentance from transgressions, Jesus also does not come to purge the half-hearted sinner, who only repents in part:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold

The gospel promise of Jesus Christ, is to any man seeking to live without lust and sin not, and only do good from a pure heart. Only that man repenting of all sinful deeds for Jesus' sake, can receive His Spirit and faith, that cuts out all lust from within by circumcision of Christ:

Deu 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Mat 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess…Cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Faith-alone justification without repentance first, is exactly what it says it is: Sinners saved by grace with old lust of heart and continued transgressions with the flesh, the same as all unrepented transgressors on earth.

There faith-alone sinners religion, is no different in the judgment of works, than any other sinners' religion that do both good and evil. Only the names named are different.

2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.





The Scriptures upend another gospel than Jesus Christ: Faith-alone justification without repentance to believe, be converted, circumcised of the Spirit, and saved from sinning by Jesus Christ the righteous.

What did John the Baptist preach?

 

[ATG]

The blood of the lamb was placed on the doorway of the residence.

Exactly. Struck on the door after being shed, not by being shed alone.

Exo 12:7
And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Neither the Passover nor atonement are not kept and made by shedding of blood alone.

Then the Jews had to eat the lamb!

Exactly.

No man is eating the natural flesh and blood of Jesus' body on the cross.

Are you eating His flesh and drinking His blood? If not the natural, then must be the spiritual from heaven.

1Co 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and a spiritual body, and the natural flesh and blood does not inherit the Spirit's kingdom.

So we are spiritually drinking and eating the lamb of God.

Thank you. Only by eating and drinking the Spirit's blood and body, can any man have life by Jesus' resurrected blood and His body.

Any man eating and drinking any natural flesh and blood of any man is a cannibal, and transgressor of God's law.

Any man shedding blood alone for atonement is making covenant with a pagan god and christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

Tell that to David.

Psa 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

And the LORD:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?



They did in the nation of Israel, if rightly prosecuted by law. Of course, Jesus was also accused of profaning the Sabbath, with His disciples.

As with uncircumcision in the nation of Israel, is the soul cut off, so also is transgression of the law of Christ, also cut off from His body and house.

If any nation of men also prosecute, then they can be bodily killed, in addition to being spiritually dead. Except they repent before the Lord of their transgression like David, from the heart with godly sorrow.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


And seriously forbids entering the kingdom of God, nor abiding therein:

Jhn 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

And as in the OT, there were false prophets cut off from the people of God, so in the NT are there false teachers cut off from the body of Christ.


Only if transgressed, not when obeyed:

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,

I suppose someone confessing transgression and relentless sinning without repentance, would like to write off the law of God by their faith-alone.

Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

Where no law of God is, is no holiness of God. Where no obedience to the law of God is, is no grace of Jesus Christ.

So you obey the ten commandments without transgression?

Both in thought and deed?

You are a liar.

No one can obey the law without transgression.

No law = no vilolation of the law

If you were repentant and never sinned again you would not need Jesus.

 

[Inquisitor]

Tell that to David.

Psa 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

And the LORD:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?



They did in the nation of Israel, if rightly prosecuted by law. Of course, Jesus was also accused of profaning the Sabbath, with His disciples.

As with uncircumcision in the nation of Israel, is the soul cut off, so also is transgression of the law of Christ, also cut off from His body and house.

If any nation of men also prosecute, then they can be bodily killed, in addition to being spiritually dead. Except they repent before the Lord of their transgression like David, from the heart with godly sorrow.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


And seriously forbids entering the kingdom of God, nor abiding therein:

Jhn 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

And as in the OT, there were false prophets cut off from the people of God, so in the NT are there false teachers cut off from the body of Christ.


Only if transgressed, not when obeyed:

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,

I suppose someone confessing transgression and relentless sinning without repentance, would like to write off the law of God by their faith-alone.

Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

Where no law of God is, is no holiness of God. Where no obedience to the law of God is, is no grace of Jesus Christ.

In Israel, if you were caught breaking a commandment in the 1st century, you were executed.

There is no forgiveness for a serious offence in the law.

Even today, around the world no one escapes punishment for a serious offence.

You will transgress the law in your thought life anyway.

Don't give me this prattle that someone can repent of their sin.

Sin is endemic in our flesh and sin is a way of life in western society.

Does that mean we do not persist in putting to death the deeds of the flesh, of course not.

We are only saved by calling on the name of Jesus!

 

[BillyBob]

If you are still a sinner who needs a Savior, then your "whole repentance" hasn't worked yet. If you aren't a sinner, then 1 John 1:8 says the truth is not in you. You are the one changing the truth of God into a lie by acting like your performance is what qualifies you for the Spirit. Faith isn't a lie; it’s the only way a real sinner gets a real Savior.

If we are no longer sinners, then why do we need an advocate with the Father?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If we are no longer sinners, then why do we need an advocate with the Father?

Exactly. @ATG apparently believes He doesn’t need an advocate.

 

[Inquisitor]

Rom 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Do you understand "context"?

In Romans chapter 2, Paul is primarily addressing Jewish people or self-righteous moralists who rely on their
knowledge of the Mosaic law, religious heritage, and rituals (like circumcision) to judge others while failing
to live up to the law themselves. He argues that God is impartial and judges based on heart obedience,
not just outward appearance.

Key Aspects of the Audience in Romans 2:

• The Self-Righteous Moralist (1-5): Paul addresses anyone who "passes judgment" on others for sins listed in Chapter 1 but commits the same offenses themselves.
• The Jewish Person (17-24): Paul specifically addresses those who rely on the law and boast in their relationship with God, calling out their hypocrisy.
• The Circumcised (25-29): He argues that outward religious rituals are valueless if the law is broken, and that true spiritual status belongs to the "inward" Jew, whose heart is circumcised by the Spirit.
• God's Impartial Judgment (6-16): Paul stresses that God will punish unrighteousness and reward righteousness, regardless of whether one is a Jew with the law or a Gentile with only their conscience.

 

[Inquisitor]

Legally true, but David was forgiven of adultery and murder by confession and repentance, which is the foreshadowing of good things to come.

David faced punishment for his grievous sins.

Almost impossible to put a King on trial as they are usually immune from prosecution.

The King of England for example is not subject to prosecution under the criminal code of England.

God enacted punishment Himself on King David

2 Samuel 11

• The Incident: King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, one of his loyal soldiers, while Uriah was away fighting in a battle.
• The Cover-up Attempt: When David found out Bathsheba was pregnant, he brought Uriah back from the battlefield, hoping he would sleep with his wife so the child would appear to be his. However, Uriah refused to enjoy the comforts of home while his fellow soldiers were in the battlefield.
• The Plot: To hide his sin, David sent a letter to his military commander, Joab, instructing him to place Uriah in the "forefront of the hottest battle" and then withdraw support so he would be killed.
• The Result: Uriah was killed in battle as planned. After Bathsheba finished her period of mourning, David married her.
• The Consequences: This act strongly displeased the Lord, and the prophet Nathan was sent to rebuke David. Though David repented, he faced severe consequences, including the death of the child born from this affair and ongoing turmoil within his family.

 

[Inquisitor]

Legally true, but David was forgiven of adultery and murder by confession and repentance, which is the foreshadowing of good things to come.

But then, he was the king and no man charged him by law.




If you are not keeping the commandments of the Lord, then you are a transgressor.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

If you define the ten commandments as the commandments that YHWH gave to Israel (Exodus 24).

Then the ten commandments was the codified law given to Israel and not to Egypt.

Egypt was never under the Mosaic law.

The Jews were in a blood covenant to obey the ten commandments (Exodus 24).

Egypt was not in a blood covenant to obey the ten commandments, big difference here.

The Gentiles were never under even one letter of the law and certainly not in a blood covenant,
to obey the law.

Sin to a Gentile is not defined by the law but by the deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5).

Don't ever say you obey the ten commandments.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Gideon300]

If you define the ten commandments as the commandments that YHWH gave to Israel (Exodus 24).

Then the ten commandments was the codified law given to Israel and not to Egypt.

Egypt was never under the Mosaic law.

The Jews were in a blood covenant to obey the ten commandments (Exodus 24).

Egypt was not in a blood covenant to obey the ten commandments, big difference here.

The Gentiles were never under even one letter of the law and certainly not in a blood covenant,
to obey the law.

Sin to a Gentile is not defined by the law but by the deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5).

Don't ever say you obey the ten commandments.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
us from all unrighteousness.

Yes! "Hear O Israel........." And the law is a shadow anyway. I prefer to live in the light.

 

[ATG]

If you are still a sinner who needs a Savior, then your "whole repentance" hasn't worked yet.

Since you are sinner who needs repentance, then your "whole faith-alone" doesn't work.

Since all are sinners with faith-alone still need repentance, then the "whole faith-alone" doesn't work at all.

If you aren't a sinner, then 1 John 1:8 says the truth is not in you.

If you are a sinner, who says he has no sin condemned, 1 John 1:8 says the truth is not in you.

You are the one changing the truth of God into a lie by acting like your performance is what qualifies you for the Spirit.

You are the one changing the truth of God into a lie by acting like your works has nothing to do with the Spirit's justification.

Faith isn't a lie; it’s the only way a real sinner gets a real Savior.

Faith toward God isn't a lie; it's the only way a sinner that repents has Jesus Christ

 

[ATG]

What did John the Baptist preach?

Read the Bible.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Since you are sinner who needs repentance, then your "whole faith-alone" doesn't work.

Since all are sinners with faith-alone still need repentance, then the "whole faith-alone" doesn't work at all.

If you are a sinner, who says he has no sin condemned, 1 John 1:8 says the truth is not in you.




You are the one changing the truth of God into a lie by acting like your works has nothing to do with the Spirit's justification.



Faith toward God isn't a lie; it's the only way a sinner that repents has Jesus Christ

The difference between you and I is that I trust in Jesus for my salvation and you trust in yourself. Good luck with that.

 

[Nedsk]

Eph 2:8 is used by many Christians to preach a gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone without works; Which some say is justification by faith apart from any works that we may be doing at the time, whether good or evil. So what does the Scripture say?

Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That not of ourselves, is that faith that is of God, and not of ourselves. And so we see the division made between the two. The same faith is not being spoken of throughout this verse of Scripture.

Only that faith by grace is the gift of God, but that faith of man is by his own will alone.

Psa 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

By grace, the gift of God is that faith in Jesus Christ, by which we can do the works of God that please Him, and not ourselves alone. We no more do our own works by our own faith, which we can temporarily boast of:

Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

But now by grace through Jesus' gift of faith, we cease doing our own works of faith, and instead can by God's faith, do His good will forever:

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1Co 15:10
t by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

James says more than just faith without works is dead. He says, works complete faith. Now if thats true, and it must be if it's in scripture, faith alone cannot be sufficient for salvation because that which is already complete doesn't need completion. And if faith was complete without works, then it alone, would be sufficient.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

James says more than just faith without works is dead. He says, works complete faith. Now if thats true, and it must be if it's in scripture, faith alone cannot be sufficient for salvation because that which is already complete doesn't need completion. And if faith was complete without works, then it alone, would be sufficient.

Do you not understand the phrase “saved by faith alone” either?