Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[ATG]

No mention made in any sense or form of man's works being a prerequisite to salvation

Every mention made with sense and form of a man's works being a prerequisite to justification.

(Rom 3:24, 5:21, Tit 3:5). Salvation was brought to fruition and given solely by God's mercy through Jesus Christ. Justification, and therefore salvation, is by His righteousness, His grace, His works and His faith as Savior which He grants and imputes to those whom He had chosen unto salvation.

Rom 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

God grants repentance from dead works to receive His faith unto salvation.

Salvation, justification, righteousness, grace, and faith, that begins not with repentance from dead works, is man's alone. It all ends in the grave with the pretty speeches.

And that is why Christ alone is THE Savior and man is not.

Christ alone is the Savior, and man is not, because Jesus Christ alone can forgive sins of them that repent.

Rom 3:25
Jesus Christ, Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[Rom 4:2 KJV] 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

If Abraham were justified by works of circumcision, he hath whereof to glory.

So, Abraham were justified by works of offering up Isaac, whereof God called him Friend.

[Rom 3:24 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [Rom 5:21 KJV] 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

So, no justification through faith.

[Tit 3:4-6 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

So, no salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Inquisitor]

Do you think Jesus is encouraging people to put his sayings into practice in Matthew 7:24 because doing so would be doing the will of the Father? If so, do you think putting his sayings into practice would include things other than believing in Jesus?

Not trying to jump down your throat or anything, I just suggest you look at those four verses I posted carefully as if read carefully it should be obvious that Jesus wants us to do things like enter in through the strait (narrow) gate, do unto others as they do unto you, not judge (lest ye be not judged), as these are the sayings he has been preaching (he says verbatim: therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock). The implication is that these sayings are the will of the Father and that we are to follow through on Jesus' words if we want to enter into the kingdom of heaven. These would be works, but if I have you right you say works don't contribute to salvation. I don't understand how Jesus can say what he says in Matthew 7 if works don't contribute to salvation, he's instructing us to do certain things. I believe we have to believe in Jesus to be saved, but Jesus says certain things are true, and if we believe in him we must naturally believe what he says is true, therefore following through on what he commands is an extension of believing in him (which I admit can be hard to grasp).

John 8:51 King James Version
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

This is a part of John's gospel where it is laid out that if you believe in Jesus you have eternal life. I don't know if I'm going to be able to put this into words, but I think if you take everything Jesus has said together in the Gospel According to John and include something like this, it is arguable to see that Jesus expects us to follow his commands if we believe in him. The one who believeth in Jesus is in a manner of speaking someone who follows his commands because he believes that Jesus told the truth. I think we are at a great loss if it is taken to mean someone who simply believes the gospel, or simply believes Jesus existed. If that is how Jesus's words are meant to be viewed in John 3 then it is leaving out believing that Jesus is Lord and has the right and station to be commanding us. Also, as an aside, how do you reconcile Jesus saying what he said in Matthew 7:21-24?

1. Jesus’ earthly ministry was directed to Israel

• “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
• “Go not into the way of the Gentiles… But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6)
• “Salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22)

2. Yet Jesus spoke words that extend beyond Israel

• “Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring.” (John 10:16)
• “Many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham…” (Matthew 8:11)
• “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…” (Matthew 28:19)
• “That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.” (Luke 24:47)

3. The apostles were sent to carry His words to the Gentiles

• “He that heareth you heareth me.” (Luke 10:16)
• “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” (John 20:21)

4. Paul was specifically entrusted with the gospel to the Gentiles

• “The gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter.” (Galatians 2:7–8)
• “I am the apostle of the Gentiles.” (Romans 11:13)
• “According to the revelation of the mystery… which in other ages was not made known… that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs.” (Ephesians 3:3–6)

5. Gentiles were not under the Law given at Sinai

• “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law…” (Romans 2:14)
• “Ye are not under the law, but under grace.” (Romans 6:14)
• “A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 2:16)

6. Yet the same Lord and same salvation apply to both

• “There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Romans 10:12)
• “God… now commandeth all men every where to repent.” (Acts 17:30)
• “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)

7. Paul’s teaching does not replace Jesus—it reveals and explains

• “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:1)
• “If any man think himself to be a prophet… let him acknowledge that the things that I write… are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)
• “The gospel which was preached of me is not after man… but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11–12)

8. Peter confirms Paul’s writings as authoritative

• “Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you… in all his epistles…” (2 Peter 3:15–16)

---

Summary (from the scriptures):

• Jesus’ earthly ministry was to Israel.
• His words contain the foundation and extend to all nations.
• The apostles, especially Paul, were sent to unfold and apply this to Gentiles.
• Gentiles are not under the Law, but under grace through faith.
• Paul’s writings are not a different message, but a revelation and explanation of Christ for the Gentiles.

So, according to scripture:
The words of Jesus are true and foundational for Gentiles—but the full understanding of how they apply apart from the Law is revealed through the apostles, especially Paul.
(AI)
Matthew 7:21-24 in the context is Jesus speaking to the Jews and not the Gentiles.

You need to consider which covenant you belong to being a Gentile?

Are you in the new covenant or in both the old covenant and the new covenants.

This is of vital importance because the old covenant (Mt Sinai) was the ten words.

Whereas the new covenant are the commandments that Jesus gave which are not the ten words.

For example see what commandments Paul gives to the Thessalonians below.

1 Thessalonians 4:2-12
For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. For this is
the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality (Acts 15);
that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful
passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his
brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you
before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in
sanctification. So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves
are taught by God to love one another; for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who
are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, and to make it your ambition
to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,
so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.

Do you see that the Gentiles are not being taught the law?

 

[LeeLoving]

I think it's important to understand just what is meant by works and how works justify someone (as James writes). Jesus in Matthew 7:21 says that only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven, he goes on to say that therefore he will consider anyone wise who puts his sayings into practice. This happens at the end of the sermon on the mount. From this we can see that we are supposed to actually carry out the will of the Father.

Paul writes that someone who believes in Jesus is justified in Romans 3. I think this belief though is inseparable from a willingness to live out Jesus' commands, as Paul also writes:

Romans 2:1-11 King James Version
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Jesus died for our sins yes, but it seems this gift of righteousness is only credited to us if we follow Jesus' commands, which is understood as belief in Jesus. Why do I say this? Because Jesus himself says it is only those who do the will of the Father that will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[ATG]

You have it in reverse.

Your salvation gospel not beginning with repentance has it in reverse.

Grace is the fundamental keyword in the N.T whereby we understand that the Lord.

repentance is the fundamental keyword in the OT and NT whereby we understand that the Lord forgives transgressions.

In the Lord's infinite mercy has bestowed on us that free gift of salvation.

Free salvation is only for unrepentant sinners.

The Lord did not say repent of all your sin first, then I will consider whether you will be offered
salvation.

The Lord begins preaching repent, and then believe His gospel of salvation from sinning.

The lord doesn't consider saving any unrepentant sinner with sinning.

Nor did the Lord say that we, must do this or do that, to be considered for salvation.

Nor does the Lord say we are saved from sinning, without repenting from sinning.

Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own
purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

So, not saved through faith.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more,
having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

So, not saved by grace nor through faith.

You must understand that repentance, endurance, good works, legalism, is not the reasons that
we are saved.

You must understand that repentance, endurance, good works, is not legalism, but is the cause for being saved from sinning.

Following the words of Jesus to the letter is also not the reason anyone is saved.

So, faith-alone salvation is not reason to walk as Jesus walked.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Paul wrote 12 letters in the N.T and not one or two letters. Paul wrote the doctrines of Christianity
in great detail. According to the revelation he received directly from the Lord.

Including the unrighteous doing unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God. James writes faith-alone without doing righteousness is unrighteousness.

All the apostles wrote the doctrine of Christ:

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The gospels do not even agree with one another in places.

And so, having faith-alone is unbelief in Scripture of God. It's been abundantly clear, but now thanks for clearly saying so:

Tit 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Believers in Scripture don't argue Scripture with unbelievers.

 

[LeeLoving]

1. Jesus’ earthly ministry was directed to Israel

• “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
• “Go not into the way of the Gentiles… But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6)
• “Salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22)

2. Yet Jesus spoke words that extend beyond Israel

• “Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring.” (John 10:16)
• “Many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham…” (Matthew 8:11)
• “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…” (Matthew 28:19)
• “That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.” (Luke 24:47)

3. The apostles were sent to carry His words to the Gentiles

• “He that heareth you heareth me.” (Luke 10:16)
• “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” (John 20:21)

4. Paul was specifically entrusted with the gospel to the Gentiles

• “The gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter.” (Galatians 2:7–8)
• “I am the apostle of the Gentiles.” (Romans 11:13)
• “According to the revelation of the mystery… which in other ages was not made known… that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs.” (Ephesians 3:3–6)

5. Gentiles were not under the Law given at Sinai

• “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law…” (Romans 2:14)
• “Ye are not under the law, but under grace.” (Romans 6:14)
• “A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 2:16)

6. Yet the same Lord and same salvation apply to both

• “There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Romans 10:12)
• “God… now commandeth all men every where to repent.” (Acts 17:30)
• “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)

7. Paul’s teaching does not replace Jesus—it reveals and explains

• “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:1)
• “If any man think himself to be a prophet… let him acknowledge that the things that I write… are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)
• “The gospel which was preached of me is not after man… but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11–12)

8. Peter confirms Paul’s writings as authoritative

• “Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you… in all his epistles…” (2 Peter 3:15–16)

---

Summary (from the scriptures):

• Jesus’ earthly ministry was to Israel.
• His words contain the foundation and extend to all nations.
• The apostles, especially Paul, were sent to unfold and apply this to Gentiles.
• Gentiles are not under the Law, but under grace through faith.
• Paul’s writings are not a different message, but a revelation and explanation of Christ for the Gentiles.

So, according to scripture:
The words of Jesus are true and foundational for Gentiles—but the full understanding of how they apply apart from the Law is revealed through the apostles, especially Paul.
(AI)
Matthew 7:21-24 in the context is Jesus speaking to the Jews and not the Gentiles.

You need to consider which covenant you belong to being a Gentile?

Are you in the new covenant or in both the old covenant and the new covenants.

This is of vital importance because the old covenant (Mt Sinai) was the ten words.

Whereas the new covenant are the commandments that Jesus gave which are not the ten words.

For example see what commandments Paul gives to the Thessalonians below.

1 Thessalonians 4:2-12
For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. For this is
the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality (Acts 15);
that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful
passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his
brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you
before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in
sanctification. So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves
are taught by God to love one another; for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who
are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, and to make it your ambition
to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,
so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.

Do you see that the Gentiles are not being taught the law?

So you're saying Jesus instructing people to do the will of the Father was a message only for Jews under the law? I don't think I agree with this, my previous post might be able to help shed light on why.

 

[Inquisitor]

I think it's important to understand just what is meant by works and how works justify someone (as James writes). Jesus in Matthew 7:21 says that only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven, he goes on to say that therefore he will consider anyone wise who puts his sayings into practice. This happens at the end of the sermon on the mount. From this we can see that we are supposed to actually carry out the will of the Father.

Paul writes that someone who believes in Jesus is justified in Romans 3. I think this belief though is inseparable from a willingness to live out Jesus' commands, as Paul also writes:

Romans 2:1-11 King James Version
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Jesus died for our sins yes, but it seems this gift of righteousness is only credited to us if we follow Jesus' commands, which is understood as belief in Jesus. Why do I say this? Because Jesus himself says it is only those who do the will of the Father that will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So are you saying it's both Jesus and your behavior equals salvation?

Or are you saying that the Christian lifestyle is an outcome of the embedded Holy Spirit.

In other words salvation itself is a free gift given to those that believe?

Christ alone for salvation or the works of LeeLoving plus Jesus for salvation?

 

[Inquisitor]

Your salvation gospel not beginning with repentance has it in reverse.




repentance is the fundamental keyword in the OT and NT whereby we understand that the Lord forgives transgressions.



Free salvation is only for unrepentant sinners.


The Lord begins preaching repent, and then believe His gospel of salvation from sinning.

The lord doesn't consider saving any unrepentant sinner with sinning.



Nor does the Lord say we are saved from sinning, without repenting from sinning.



5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

So, not saved through faith.


So, not saved by grace nor through faith.


You must understand that repentance, endurance, good works, is not legalism, but is the cause for being saved from sinning.


So, faith-alone salvation is not reason to walk as Jesus walked.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.



Including the unrighteous doing unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God. James writes faith-alone without doing righteousness is unrighteousness.

All the apostles wrote the doctrine of Christ:

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.




And so, having faith-alone is unbelief in Scripture of God. It's been abundantly clear, but now thanks for clearly saying so:

Tit 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Believers in Scripture don't argue Scripture with unbelievers.

You repent of all your sin before Jesus forgives you of what exactly?

How can Jesus forgive your sinful ways if you have already repented of all sin?

That is a perfect, personal sanctification before the divine atonement is applied to you?

 

[LeeLoving]

So are you saying it's both Jesus and your behavior equals salvation?

Or are you saying that the Christian lifestyle is an outcome of the embedded Holy Spirit.

In other words salvation itself is a free gift given to those that believe?

Christ alone for salvation or the works of LeeLoving plus Jesus for salvation?

What does it mean to believe? Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). If I believe in Jesus then I believe he said those words, and therefore I should listen to him. If I were to say I believe in Jesus, in certain circumstances I would be saying I believe Jesus is the Lord and that he spoke the truth. Such a person would therefore follow his commands. As a manner of putting things you could say this person believes in Jesus, because they believe he is the Lord and that you should listen to him. When Jesus says those who believe in him have eternal life in John 3 I think this is the type of belief he was talking about.

 

[TrustandObey]

He needed rebuking after lying to my face then trying to gaslight me.


For starters.

This is not an attempt to defend Nedsk but your threshold for labeling something as "lying to my face" and gaslighting me" is absurd.

Are you really this thin-skinned?

For many justified and saved are synonymous.

A quick search of synonyms for justified will yield such words as:

validated
vindicated
pardoned
forgiven
excused

I understand that you believe in faith alone regeneration theology but this is no excuse for being so emotional.

BTW, Lamar implying you are a liar is a bit of a stretch as well.

 

[Inquisitor]

So you're saying Jesus instructing people to do the will of the Father was a message only for Jews under the law? I don't think I agree with this, my previous post might be able to help shed light on why.

I don't think you understood what AI was saying.

What do you believe the will of the Father is?

Was Jesus sacrificing Himself the primary mission Jesus fulfilled?

Was that the will of the father?

You need to consider the revelation of Jesus Christ more deeply.

Matthew 9:2
And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic,
“Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Matthew 9:22
But Jesus turning and seeing her said, “Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well.”
At once the woman was made well.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes, saying, “It shall be done to you according to your faith.”

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.”
And her daughter was healed at once.

Matthew 16:8
But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread?

Matthew 17:20
And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of
a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing
will be impossible to you.

Matthew 25:21
His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you
in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

Matthew 25:23
His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you
in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

Jesus always spoke of faith but so did Paul.

 

[Inquisitor]

What does it mean to believe? Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). If I believe in Jesus then I believe he said those words, and therefore I should listen to him. If I were to say I believe in Jesus, in certain circumstances I would be saying I believe Jesus is the Lord and that he spoke the truth. Such a person would therefore follow his commands. As a manner of putting things you could say this person believes in Jesus, because they believe he is the Lord and that you should listen to him. When Jesus says those who believe in him have eternal life in John 3 I think this is the type of belief he was talking about.

You need to understand that there are two separate points spoken of in the N.T.

1) One is the divine reconciliation that Jesus performed and that was His work for you.

2) The other is how you conduct yourself by faith as a Christian based on the commands we received.

Your Christian life is directly related to the power of the Holy Spirit in your life.

Sow to the flesh and reap death but sow to the Spirit and you reap immortality (Galatians 5).

Led by the Spirit or led by some tradition, theology, philosophy, or a vision.

 

[LeeLoving]

I don't think you understood what AI was saying.

What do you believe the will of the Father is?

Was Jesus sacrificing Himself the primary mission Jesus fulfilled?

Was that the will of the father?

You need to consider the revelation of Jesus Christ more deeply.

Matthew 9:2
And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic,
“Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Matthew 9:22
But Jesus turning and seeing her said, “Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well.”
At once the woman was made well.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes, saying, “It shall be done to you according to your faith.”

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.”
And her daughter was healed at once.

Matthew 16:8
But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread?

Matthew 17:20
And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of
a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing
will be impossible to you.

Matthew 25:21
His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you
in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

Matthew 25:23
His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you
in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

Jesus always spoke of faith but so did Paul.

The will of the Father includes things such as are expressed in Jesus' sayings in the sermon on the mount.

Was Jesus sacrificing Himself the primary mission Jesus fulfilled?
I think it would be pretty hard to say Jesus' primary mission was his sacrifice, as his preaching is also of great importance.

Was that the will of the father?
That Jesus sacrificed himself? I think it was part of the Father's will for Jesus, but Jesus also received a commandment to say all the things that he said, "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:49 King James Version)

 

[Inquisitor]

I understand that you believe in faith alone regeneration theology but this is no excuse for being so emotional.

It's not faith alone and never was.

By grace through faith and that's not from you or anyone else!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Always our salvation is in Christ alone and given by the grace of our savior Jesus Christ.

Faith is the mere channel that receives the overflowing grace of God towards us.

Never, ever, say faith alone for salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

The will of the Father includes things such as are expressed in Jesus' sayings in the sermon on the mount.

Was Jesus sacrificing Himself the primary mission Jesus fulfilled?
I think it would be pretty hard to say Jesus' primary mission was his sacrifice, as his preaching is also of great importance.

Was that the will of the father?
That Jesus sacrificed himself? I think it was part of the Father's will for Jesus, but Jesus also received a commandment to say all the things that he said, "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:49 King James Version)

The atonement that Jesus Christ gave fulfilled the law to the letter, a perfect sacrifice for you.

Colossians 1:21-23
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled
you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach
if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel
that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

That blameless and beyond reproach state that you exist in, is solely what Christ has given you.

You are perfectly righteous in Jesus Christ not because you did anything of divine weight.

But simply because you believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned.

 

[Inquisitor]

I think it would be pretty hard to say Jesus' primary mission was his sacrifice, as his preaching is also of great importance.

I do not believe you said that.

 

[LeeLoving]

The atonement that Jesus Christ gave fulfilled the law to the letter, a perfect sacrifice for you.

Colossians 1:21-23
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled
you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach
if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel
that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

That blameless and beyond reproach state that you exist in, is solely what Christ has given you.

You are perfectly righteous in Jesus Christ not because you did anything of divine weight.

But simply because you believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned.

Yes... salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned... these are commonly touted words. Jesus speaks explicitly that only those who do the will of the Father though will enter into the kingdom of heaven. Paul is also explicit that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Hebrews 12:14 also says to follow holiness with all men, without which no man shall see the Lord. As you can see from scripture how we live our lives is a determining factor on whether or not we will be saved. We are saved by Jesus' sacrifice for our sins, but I believe it is in unison with following Jesus' commands as that is belief in Jesus, to believe he told the truth when he gave his commands.

 

[TrustandObey]

It's not faith alone and never was.

By grace through faith and that's not from you or anyone else!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Always our salvation is in Christ alone and given by the grace of our savior Jesus Christ.

Faith is the mere channel that receives the overflowing grace of God towards us.

Never, ever, say faith alone for salvation.

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is very much a followed narrative throughout Evangelical groups.

Universalism, which I am assuming you support is a very, very small minority.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes... salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned... these are commonly touted words. Jesus speaks explicitly that only those who do the will of the Father though will enter into the kingdom of heaven. Paul is also explicit that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Hebrews 12:14 also says to follow holiness with all men, without which no man shall see the Lord. As you can see from scripture how we live our lives is a determining factor on whether or not we will be saved. We are saved by Jesus sacrifice for our sins, but I believe it is in unison with following Jesus' commands as that is belief in Jesus, to believe he told the truth when he gave his commands.

You have failed to understand the gravity of that divine reconciliation that Christ performed.

No one can enter heaven without a rock solid trust in Jesus Christ.

As for your obedience that is more about rewards for what you did in your faith, in that trust in Jesus.

There is an immense difference between the divine atonement and your reading of the scripture.

How you apply yourself to what Jesus spoke is not the divine reconciliation and never was.

Only the crucifixion of Jesus delivers eternal life to any that call on His name.

You must continue to call on Jesus for salvation there is no other way to be saved.

It's Jesus only regardless of your interpretation of the N.T.

 

[LeeLoving]

You have failed to understand the gravity of that divine reconciliation that Christ performed.

No one can enter heaven without a rock solid trust in Jesus Christ.

As for your obedience that is more about rewards for what you did in your faith, in that trust in Jesus.

There is an immense difference between the divine atonement and your reading of the scripture.

How you apply yourself to what Jesus spoke is not the divine reconciliation and never was.

Only the crucifixion of Jesus delivers eternal life to any that call on His name.

You must continue to call on Jesus for salvation there is no other way to be saved.

It's Jesus only regardless of your interpretation of the N.T.

Well, like I said, I believe Jesus' sacrifice covers those who believe in him, which is what the Bible teaches. This means believing he is Lord and that he has the station to give us commands and teachings that we must follow. Our salvation is imperative on us actually following through on what he says. Yes, we are saved by faith, but it is faith in Jesus. I think you're missing out on some of the nuance of this.

 

[mailmandan]

This is not an attempt to defend Nedsk but your threshold for labeling something as "lying to my face" and gaslighting me" is absurd.

Are you really this thin-skinned?

For many justified and saved are synonymous.

A quick search of synonyms for justified will yield such words as:

validated
vindicated
pardoned
forgiven
excused

I understand that you believe in faith alone regeneration theology but this is no excuse for being so emotional.

BTW, Lamar implying you are a liar is a bit of a stretch as well.

Lying to my face and gadlighting me was spot on. Thinned skin? Let's just say I have a very low tolerance for blatant dishonesty.

Now in regard to being justified, James is not using the term to mean accounted as righteous but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

dikaioō

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools