Eternal security is obedience

[Complete_In_Him]

The way we purify ourselves is by setting ourselves apart from the ways of the world, abstaining from sin

How do you do this, therein "is the power of God", do you deny the power of God, are you made perfect by the flesh? You have a 'form" of godliness, indeed. But, you have not "obeyed" a form of doctrine from the heart, you follow a counterfeit Christ-like system.

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. The gospel of your salvation, is the gospel of this ministry, in this dispensation, from our apostle, like it or lump it.

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

You are "carnal", you are "yet in your flesh" in unbelief of the gospel of your salvation, obedience to the faith of Christ is not abstaining in the flesh, but putting it to death by the power of God.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

And I will qualify that by saying those good works are abstaining from sin and keeping one's self pure. It's remarkable that anyone who claims to follow Christ would say otherwise.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (Faith of Christ) Identity, out of Adam and into Christ, by the power of God, the gospel of your salvation "crucified" with Christ, put that flesh to death, dead to sin! by the faith and operation of God.

 

[Magenta]

I understand it may sound ridiculous, brother but the grace of Jesus Christ IS foolishness to our flesh. It doesn't seem logical that believing what God has done in Jesus has made me pure eternally. It sounds impossible because my flesh will never understand. It's impossible to understand with our logical, carnal mind.

But with my spiritual mind (faith) I can begin to see the Lord God in reality. I can believe that He has entered my heart and is conforming me according to His perfect will & purpose in making me into the image of His Son Jesus. I can believe that Jesus believes God the Father and that the faith of Jesus Christ is in me.

I can begin to ignore my own logic, to cast my own efforts aside and commit my life to His keeping. He says that if I commit (give to Him) my life, everything I do, to Him, He will establish (build a foundation in) my mind. He will give us His thoughts. If I have just a tiny bit of faith, a grain of mustard seed of trust, it's enough to have my eyes opened and receive the mind of Christ. I will know the Truth (Jesus Christ) and be set free (of my flesh self).

Very well said, Auntie! The issue often seems to be that as you have characterized, it as an ongoing process, not yet completed, while one side often talks about it like a fait accompli, even saying such things as it being wrong to identify as being a sinner because we are new creations in Christ. The topic gets polarized when obedience becomes an issue, even though both sides agree that obedience is part of the process. The one side speaks as if they have nothing to do with being obedient, calling those that say we have a part to play in submitting our will to God's "legalists." Jesus called us to repentance. We are told to choose. We are exhorted to obey. God may make our submission possible, but if we play no part in it then it would seem we are nothing more than manipulated puppets.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Very well said, Auntie! The issue often seems to be that as you have characterized, it as an ongoing process, not yet completed, while one side often talks about it like a fait accompli, even saying such things as it being wrong to identify as being a sinner because we are new creations in Christ. The topic gets polarized when obedience becomes an issue, even though both sides agree that obedience is part of the process. The one side speaks as if they have nothing to do with being obedient, calling those that say we have a part to play in submitting our will to God's "legalists." Jesus called us to repentance. We are told to choose. We are exhorted to obey. God may make our submission possible, but if we play no part in it then it would seem we are nothing more than manipulated puppets.

There is only one issue

Those who teach salvation is dependent on obedience vs those who say obedience is dependent on salvation. (2 different gospels)

other than that, there is no issue

 

[thepsalmist]

There is only one issue

Those who teach salvation is dependent on obedience vs those who say obedience is dependent on salvation. (2 different gospels)

other than that, there is no issue

Best summary I've heard yet that explains all the dispute and debate going on.

 

[Magenta]

There is only one issue
Those who teach salvation is dependent on obedience vs those who say obedience is dependent on salvation. (2 different gospels)
other than that, there is no issue

Only one issue? Hmmm, this conversation has been going on for months and seems a little more subtle and complex to me than that. Once we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God, do we play a part in being obedient or not? Do we submit? Do we obey? Why the need for a process of sanctification if you have nothing to do with it? Is it not you growing and maturing as you learn to walk according to His statutes? Does learning to walk according to His statutes make one a legalist? To hear some speak, apparently it does. Yet in my mind a legalist is someone who says that you earn salvation through works, not that you must of your own free will submit to the works God has laid out for us.

 

[coby]

Yes you did say that, you said a christian can live in sin (as the world)


1 John 3
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


A child of God can not live like they lived in the world.

Struggling with a sin is not the same as living in sin.. Again, you need to study more, and see what things actually mean.

You state one can be saved, Then sin themselves out of salvation.

So like HRFTD, You are teaching law not grace (because it is the law which condemns, and tells us what sin is)

yes they are fin to figure out, Thats why HRFTD is so fun to discuss the bible with, It is to easy to take what he said, and see he totally destorys the word of God, because all the contradictions he imposes on the word.

Again I ask, DO you not think that because you are leaning towards being like him, that you do not see his flaws?

I said a christian can sin like the world because I was a christian and I did, but then according to John you are in darkness and I was, because I was full of hate. The lost son was dead. The man who was delivered to satan wasn't saved at that moment I think. He repented in 2 Corinthians.
I was really saved after that, but I wanted a man and christian men in Holland are scarse and they do not want someone who is divorced with 3 kids. So I could get one who was on porn and drugs and into antinomianism. All the grace teachers on my forum did not help me. All they taught was grace. Yet the 2 what you would call legalists warned me with that text from John and that I then could not come back again and with hell and God showed me that if I would date him we would both go to hell.
So yes you're right, God did it, He kept me from sinning, but He did use those 2 to warn me and warned me with hell, because I was able to fall for that sin.

 

[notuptome]

Best summary I've heard yet that explains all the dispute and debate going on.

More than peculiar is the notion that it has been that way since Cane and Able.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes..so true Roger...

Cain came by "his" own work which he produced...Cain know about the blood sacrifice needed and he came with what was acceptable to God. Self-effort and works are not acceptable to God no matter how much "Christianize" we put around them...

More than peculiar is the notion that it has been that way since Cane and Able.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

Cain came by "his" own work which he produced...Cain know about the blood sacrifice needed and he came with what was acceptable to God. Self-effort and works are not acceptable to God no matter how much "Christianize" we put around them...

Could you please clarify this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Only one issue? Hmmm, this conversation has been going on for months and seems a little more subtle and complex to me than that. Once we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God, do we play a part in being obedient or not? Do we submit? Do we obey? Why the need for a process of sanctification if you have nothing to do with it? Is it not you growing and maturing as you learn to walk according to His statutes? Does learning to walk according to His statutes make one a legalist? To hear some speak, apparently it does. Yet in my mind a legalist is someone who says that you earn salvation through works, not that you must of your own free will submit to the works God has laid out for us.

The bolded part. No that does not make someone a legalist. Myself. and so many who believe as I do would teach this very thing.

But that is not what is being spread out.

what is being spread out is salvation is dependent on this.. That is legalism.

IE. I earn salvation by doing it, Not that I do it because I have been empowered by Gods grace.

It is one thing to agree with people who say we should be obedient, and we need to walk worthy. It is a far different thing to continue to agree with them, when they turn it into a salvation issue.. Like HRFTD and so many other people do.

That's legalism

 

[phil36]

After wading through so far 13 pages.. it is simple to see that some do not know the difference between 'Justification' and 'sanctification'. If people defined their argument more clearly when they speak of salvation then half what is being argued here would be mute. And some would see that they actually agree.

Of course there will always be the extremes which we also see here..the Anitinomians and the Legalists.

 

[BenFTW]

Could you please clarify this?

Hebrews 11:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I said a christian can sin like the world because I was a christian and I did,

Being a christian, And being a child of God are not the same.

If john said you can not. And you said you did, Then I would be questioning if I was really a christian or not..

I would not be contradicting John and saying I did it, so it must be so.

but then according to John you are in darkness and I was, because I was full of hate. The lost son was dead. The man who was delivered to satan wasn't saved at that moment I think. He repented in 2 Corinthians.
I was really saved after that, but I wanted a man and christian men in Holland are scarse and they do not want someone who is divorced with 3 kids. So I could get one who was on porn and drugs and into antinomianism. All the grace teachers on my forum did not help me. All they taught was grace. Yet the 2 what you would call legalists warned me with that text from John and that I then could not come back again and with hell and God showed me that if I would date him we would both go to hell.
So yes you're right, God did it, He kept me from sinning, but He did use those 2 to warn me and warned me with hell, because I was able to fall for that sin.

So you would go to hell if you date him? Says who?? Well yeah, the legalist would say that, They are trying to earn their way to heaven.

According to the bible. the only way to hell is unbelief (lack of faith) Not who you marry.

The grace teachers not helping you worries me some. But it does not make what the legalist said true.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Best summary I've heard yet that explains all the dispute and debate going on.

That was a false characterization. Obedience is dependent upon the enabling of the holy spirit and our following it. Obedience is not dependent upon salvation, whatever that means.

 

[AuntieAnt]

I just posted something in the Ladies Forum but in reality it applies to everyone, male & female.

The Word tells us how Martha is overly anxious and distracted with work, being the industrious woman that she was. Her focus was solely on her tasks and her performance and she was growing exasperated. She goes to Jesus in frustration and accuses her sister Mary of not helping her and that Mary's literally doing nothing but sitting at Jesus' feet. Martha even went as far as to question whether or not Jesus even cared about her. (Read Luke 10)

That used to be me. I used to try to measure up to something I was brainwashed into believing. There's so many books written about the Proverbs 31 woman and so many sermons are preached about how to be a true godly woman. I figured it HAD to be something I should concern myself with since so many other Christians were obsessed with it. And like Martha I worked myself up to become that so-called perfectly godly woman. Of course, I never achieved it. It was an endless struggle.

I smile now as I think how the Lord responded to Martha, and to me. (Maybe to you as well!)

"Martha, Martha, you worry about too many things. But few things are needed - actually, only one. Your sister Mary has chosen what is better and I'm not going to take that from her."

What one thing did Mary chose, was my question to the Lord. "Me," He answered.

I can hardly type this post without feeling like a child who just entered into Disneyland. My soul is so lifted up in joy knowing how kindly Jesus speaks that to us. "Me," He says. ♥ \/

Our focus drifts away from fellowship with Jesus by concentrating on our performance. We get so caught up in trying to be something "more holy", we don't even see Jesus dwelling within us, we don't hear His Voice within our hearts. We don't realize He is making us more & more into His image just by nature of being one with Him.

We don't have to worry about competing with anyone else or trying to become something else. Christ within us, the hope of glory! He gets all the glory, and we get Him! We can rest in that because we have all we need in Jesus! ♥

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That was a false characterization. Obedience is dependent upon the enabling of the holy spirit and our following it. Obedience is not dependent upon salvation, whatever that means.

Obedience is dependent on salvation Because unless your saved, YOU have no power to be obedient (No HS, or Human Spirit which can do good)

of course, the fact you do not understand this, Just shows how you have to depend on self for everything, including being saved..

And if your going to keep me on ignore. Please do not respond to people who do respond to me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just posted something in the Ladies Forum but in reality it applies to everyone, male & female.

The Word tells us how Martha is overly anxious and distracted with work, being the industrious woman that she was. Her focus was solely on her tasks and her performance and she was growing exasperated. She goes to Jesus in frustration and accuses her sister Mary of not helping her and that Mary's literally doing nothing but sitting at Jesus' feet. Martha even went as far as to question whether or not Jesus even cared about her. (Read Luke 10)

That used to be me. I used to try to measure up to something I was brainwashed into believing. There's so many books written about the Proverbs 31 woman and so many sermons are preached about how to be a true godly woman. I figured it HAD to be something I should concern myself with since so many other Christians were obsessed with it. And like Martha I worked myself up to become that so-called perfectly godly woman. Of course, I never achieved it. It was an endless struggle.

I smile now as I think how the Lord responded to Martha, and to me. (Maybe to you as well!)

"Martha, Martha, you worry about too many things. But few things are needed - actually, only one. Your sister Mary has chosen what is better and I'm not going to take that from her."

What one thing did Mary chose, was my question to the Lord. "Me," He answered.

I can hardly type this post without feeling like a child who just entered into Disneyland. My soul is so lifted up in joy knowing how kindly Jesus speaks that to us. "Me," He says. ♥ \/

Our focus drifts away from fellowship with Jesus by concentrating on our performance. We get so caught up in trying to be something "more holy", we don't even see Jesus dwelling within us, we don't hear His Voice within our hearts. We don't realize He is making us more & more into His image just by nature of being one with Him.

We don't have to worry about competing with anyone else or trying to become something else. Christ within us, the hope of glory! He gets all the glory, and we get Him! We can rest in that because we have all we need in Jesus! ♥

View attachment 145417

Thanks for sharing sis..

 

[BenFTW]

After wading through so far 13 pages.. it is simple to see that some do not know the difference between 'Justification' and 'sanctification'. If people defined their argument more clearly when they speak of salvation then half what is being argued here would be mute. And some would see that they actually agree.

Of course there will always be the extremes which we also see here..the Anitinomians and the Legalists.

I have yet to actually see one person subscribe to Antinomianism on this site. This charge is almost, if not, always grounded in ignorance to what the other is teaching.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You deny the blood of Christ(example-post #144), teach salvation by works(example-post #43). Then you lie about us(example-post #64). It is you who teaches a false gospel.

You're falsely accusing me of things I haven't said. The only works I say that we must do are to purify ourselves (as John said), and keep ourselves unspotted from the world (as James said). Those who don't believe this are free to defile themselves as much as they like, and take their chances with GOD on the last day.