Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[BeyondET]

This was funny.

Play on, blind man.

 

[wsblind]

Thats right. We have eternal life, because we have the One in whom is eternal life, Jesus Christ. Who has promised to never leave us or forsake us.

And there is true rest in these truths. Freedom.

 

[wsblind]

Play on, blind man.

It was just funny. You have to admit.

 

[BeyondET]

It was just funny. You have to admit.

I'll give you that, I get it. lol

 

[dcontroversal]

For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten son
That whosoever BELIEVETH in Him (present tense, NOW)
Should not perish, but have everlasting life. (the life in the Kingdom, that BEGINS here on earth).

Post 645 and open your eyes to the truth over Catholic dogma!

 

[dcontroversal]

John 3:16 is a purpose clause. "that" introduces the purpose of God sending Son. In this present day and age anyone ho believes Will be saved. It is not describing an individual who dos or does not presently believe.

The present purpose of God sending His Son to us is to save those who believe.

It is why you see the Aorist tense when describing a specific individual and their salvation. the moment they believe in Gods present purpose of sending His Son(John 3:16) they are FOREVER saved. Acts 16:31. They will NOT perish.

Its biblically and academically wrong to use the purpose clause and present tense of believe to teach whether or not someone is "presently" saved.

When your doctrine is tainted by Catholic dogma that is what you get.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Aorist.
Purpose clause.

If one were not an English Professor
and Koinè Greek Professor

HOW could he ever read the bible and come to a salvific understanding of it?????

When one wants to twists God's words around, he ALWAYS refers to the Greek.
There's no other way
SINCE THE ENGLISH IS SO PLAIN TO UNDERSTAND.

No. Some must make scripture mean what THEY WANT it to mean.

BUT IT STILL MEANS WHAT IT DOES, not what they WISH it to.

the N.T. was not inspired and or written in English....there is a reason GOD chose Koine GREEK......geesh!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus law is the law of moses plus...

We are under no law. Any law we may be under would condemn us on the spot.

That is why we are under grace. Why do you insist on trying to save yourself? I do not get it I honestly do not.

Catholic dogma and blindness.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Good post, good message.

Too bad it is missing the mark by about 5 light years!

 

[dcontroversal]

The english is very plain, It is actually a very weak language. and can easily be misunderstood, because it has open words wiht many different meanings.

That is why God used the greek not the english language. One word in the English could have many meaning, Example. Love, one english word to translate 4 greek words. all with different meanings

The english languages also does not have aroist or perfect tense words. So it is limited in how it can try to properly interpret a greek text wiht those words in a "word for word" context. which most bibles use.

You brought up that the word believe was present tense. I shows you you were wrong. it ids aorist tense. Which has a different meaning that present tense.

Absolutely love the present continuing result from a past complete action....Jesus set us free from religious ineptitude and dogma that leads to hell....!

 

[dcontroversal]

So please stop using the present tense of believe in purpose clauses. The way you are using it is dishonest or ignorant.

You forgot....AND leads to hell....!

 

[dcontroversal]

And will NOT perish and HAVE eternal life.

AMEN...present continuing result from a past completed action....exactly how a 1st century believer would have understood it!

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks BeyondET.
It's OK.

I know theology REALLY WELL.

Problem is, some don't want to know theology, the study of God.

They want to know something that was taught 1,500 years after Christianity was created by our LORD and SAVIOR, Jesus.
I've said many times that all those theologians that came before Calvin must have been really dumb not to see OSAS in the New Testament.

Jesus is our LORD and Savior. I wonder if people know what this means??

If He is NOT OUR LORD, He cannot be our SAVIOR.
Seems simple, doesn't it.

Well, to you and I it is, but some refuse it.
I have to trust God's goodness and mercy to save us based on our heart and not on our doctrine.
But this does frighten me a little, how some twist words around to suit their own beliefs.

Yeah more like Catholic dogma.......if you knew "THEOLOGY" you would know your wrong........

 

[wsblind]

the N.T. was not inspired and or written in English....there is a reason GOD chose Koine GREEK......geesh!

The Holy Spirit is precise. And so is common Greek. It is Why Koine is used. a little study of it goes a long way in clearing up most misconceptions and preconcieved ideas.

but there have always been those who want their "truth" over and above The Truth.

 

[dcontroversal]

Those who say you can lose salvation...make the following verse a lie......

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

The source of our salvation is the FAITH OF CHRIST.....too bad your JESUS is weak..........

The JESUS of the bible FINISHES what he starts and brings the work to fruition........

 

[BeyondET]

Too bad it is missing the mark by about 5 light years!

How long away ar these 5 light years, I'm ready I've seen one to many heavy years.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now I am even more confused.

You preach that salvation can be lost (meaning it must be maintained by some deed of your own) then ask me why I ask you why you are trying to save yourself?

do you even understand?

It has been well established by her own words she does not understand what she is saying.......the bible proves her Catholic dogma to be in error......

 

[FranC]

Amen...scriptures bear this truth out.

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit ( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Hi Grace,
I've seen this post of yours before.
Do you copy and paste?

I don't do that. Every single one of my posts is original and specifically for the person and what is being said.
Copy and paste might mean that you are not listening to what I'm saying, because Others here are also not listening.
They THINK they know what I'm saying.

Let's talk about being sealed with the Holy Spirit for a moment.

Ephesians 1:13-14New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13 In [a]Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in [c]Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is [d]given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

First, I'd like to say that history-wise, a sealed promise CAN be broken.
It was done in midevil times that a King could send a SEALED promise to a town stating a decree which he promised to keep.
The envelope was sealed and the decree signed by the King.

Often things happend or changed so the decree had to be annulled. The King would sign a decree withdrawing the first, put it in an envelope with his seal, and thus the first decree was annulled.

This sealing, which was known by the Apostles and used at that time, could also be understood in this human way - they knew a sealed decree could be annulled could be annulled.

Now on to the exegesis of this passage of scripture.

For our Greek lovers:

STRONGS NT 4972: σφραγίζω

σφραγίζω (Revelation 7:3 Rec.st); 1 aorist ἐσφραγισα; 1 aorist middle participle σφραγισάμενος; passive, perfect participle ἐσφραγισμενος; 1 aorist ἐσφραγίσθην; (in 2 Corinthians 11:10 Rec.st gives the form σφραγίσεται de coniectura vel errore (Tdf.; see his note at the passage)); (σφραγίς, which see); the Sept. for חָתַם; to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal;
a. for security: τί, Matthew 27:66; namely, τήν ἄβυσσον, to close it, lest Satan after being cast into it should come out; hence, the addition ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ, over him i. e. Satan, Revelation 20:3 (ἐν ᾧ —i. e. δώματι —κεραυνός ἐστιν
—i. e. δώματι —κεραυνός ἐστιν ἐσφραγισμενος, Aeschylus Eum. 828; middle σφραγίζομαι τήν θύραν, Bel and the Dragon, , Theod.).

b. Since things sealed up are concealed (as, the contents of a letter), (σφραγίζω means, tropically, to hide (Deuteronomy 32:34), keep in silence, keep secret: τί, Revelation 10:4; Revelation 22:10 (τάς ἁμαρτίας, Daniel 9:24, Theod.; τάς ἀνομίας, Job 14:17; τούς λόγους σιγή, Stobaeus, flor. 34, 9, p. 215; θαυματα πολλά σοφή σφρηγισσατο σιγή, Norm. paraphr. evang. Ioan. 21,140).c. in order to mark a person or thing; hence, to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal, to stamp: angels are said σφραγίζειν τινας ἐπί τῶν μετώπων, i. e. with the seal of God (see σφραγίς, c.) to stamp his servants on their foreheads as destined for eternal salvation, and by this means to confirm their hopes, Revelation 7:3, cf. Ewald at the passage; (B. D., under the words, Cuttings and Forehead); hence, οἱ εσφραγισμένοι, fourteen times in Rec. Revelation 7:4-8, four times by G L T Tr WH (δεινοισι σημαντροισιν εσφραγισμένοι, Euripides, Iph. Taur. 1372); metaphorically: τινα τῷ πνεύματι and ἐν τῷ πνεύματι, respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his, passive, Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30; absolutely, middle with τινα, 2 Corinthians 1:22.

Now on to Ephesians 1:13

verse 13
In HIM you also TRUSTED after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your SALVATION, in WHOM you also, HAVING BELIEVED, were sealed with the Holy Spirit OF PROMISE

verse 14
Who is the GUARANTEE of our INHERITANCE until the redemption of the PURCHASED POSSESSION, to the praise of His glory.

We are GUARANTEED an INHERITANCE at the redemption of the PURCHASED POSSESSION.
We are guaranteed an inheritance when we TRUST after hearing the gospel.

Those having HEARD AND BELIEVED the gospel were sealed.

OUR INHERITANCE is the SALVATION OF OUR SOUL, which we will receive AT THE END of our faith.
1 Peter 1:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

A Living Hope, and a Sure Salvation
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, [a]to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various [c]trials, 7 so that the [d]proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which [e]is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and [f]full of glory, 9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of [g]your souls.

Does 1- 9 sound like a believer? Of course. If one is a BELIEVER, he is saved. If one LEAVES THE FAITH, he cannot be saved.


In this same letter to the Ephesians, Paul writes to them and warns them that they WILL NOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God, or not have any inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

If a person does NOT have an inheritance in their father's estate, they do not get ANY INHERITANCE.


Ephesians 5:3-7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 But immorality [a]or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no [c]immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;

What OSAS tries to teach is that a person, such as the above who has LEFT THE FAITH, somehow still inherits the Kingdom of God as one who Paul is clearly stating that they will NOT.

It's easy to see that Paul plainly links the wrath of God, with those who DO NOT HAVE ANY INHERITANCE in the Kingdom.

Has ANY INHERITANCE in the Kingdom. Let no one DECEIVE you with empty words, for because of these things, THE WRATH OF GOD IS UPON THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE.

Therefore, DO NOT BE PARTAKERS with them.

DO NOT BE PARTAKERS WITH THEM.

We cannot be partakers of the Kingdom if we are partakers of those who have NO FAITH.
Paul makes this clear.

Our inheritance is the Kingdom of God, or heaven.

2 Corinthians 1:22
We are established in Christ through God who has sealed us IN CHRIST (we must be in Christ) and has given us the
Spirit as a pledge. (down payment).


.........

 

[dcontroversal]

This was funny.

HAH Yeah I know...hilarious.....When a man thinks he knows something (boasts about his knowledge) LIKE....I KNOW THEOLOGY WELL <---does not know a thing!

Originally Posted by FranC Thanks BeyondET.
It's OK.

I know theology REALLY WELL.

Originally Posted by BeyondET
Indeed sister, it's not that all complicated as some seem to think, a person can be the greatest theologian on the planet yet know nothing.

 

[wsblind]

You forgot....AND leads to hell....!

For those who have never truly trusted in Christ, yes. I also believe we see a lot of babes in Christ who fall for this deception, and never truly make one step with the Lord past their salvation while on this earth. they will be servants for the lords and kings or those who actually did glorify the Lord on this earth.

Too many believers are in the business of glorifying themselves in today's age. IMO.