Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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Does not matter...you will fall back on your default, false twist of the truth.......a false gospel that states you can lose salvation....while rejecting verb tense that proves your error!
I know what you're saying.
The Holy Spirit will be with you for as long as you WANT Him to.
Mathew 12:31-32
Anyone who stops believing in God, fits the above.
IOW, YOU'RE saying this CANNOT HAPPEN.
I'm saying, I've seen it happen.
One can leave the love of God and become lost again.
What is so frightening about this?
Are you afraid YOU will leave Him unless HE HOLDS ON TIGHT TO YOU??
I've listed all the scripture I'm going to.
How do YOU explain 2 Timothy 2:11-13??
Is the bible contradicting itself or are you not understanding verse 13 properly??
Keep on hangin' on to those verb tenses.
Maybe it's your only hope of continued salvation.
I hope not.
I have always " had it ". it is-we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works, it is not from ourselves, it is a gift of God.
our salvation is not from us, it is from God. we do not have to " do in order to get " .
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You know...
Either your idea is wrong,
Or Paul and the other Writers, incl Jesus are wrong.
It can't be both ways if you read the N.T. with intellectual honesty.
The lie is saying there is deception occuring.
The attempt is to pollute and bring doubt in the believers mind as to the purity
and sincerity of their communion with Christ.
Be honest and straight with God from your heart, walk in His ways and He will
be straight and honest with you. Anything else is from the evil one.
A new creation in Christ who trusts God and His ways, does the will of God when
acting in love, so fulfilling the law and the prophets. Against such there is no
condemnation.
It is this simple, yet some would have you doubt the Holy Spirit and His leading,
bring condemnation and rebellion in your spirit, so bringing disobedience and unbelief
to your heart, empowering the works of the flesh and sin to dominate your soul.
Hi Fran
Can you clarify for me what you mean by "In other words, you must repent of your sins in order to receive salvation"
What do I do?
Exegete verses?
That's what you're SUPPOSED to do.
Not make up a concept and THEN look for verses to back it up.
You read verses and THEN come up with the doctrine.
Are you going to do Timothy??
I already have.
I think you forgot to read it, or it didn't jive with your belief system so you discarded it.
This is all religious garbage that denies the work of Christ. Many have already answered your 2 Tim. 2:11-13 question but you just don't like the answer. So, this whole discussion is useless and it is a complete waste of time.
The whole doctrine of losing one's salvation when they are in Christ is demonically inspired and has done more harm to the body of Christ than any other false doctrine from the enemy. Jesus is not a liar - He said the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. - You say " No He will not because we may choose to not want Him now". Why would we ever choose to not want Him? I'm choosing to believe Jesus.
We might not see Paul or any of the other brethren that have gone before us because they may " not believe in Christ " at any moment.
Yes there are many warnings for walking by the flesh that will destroy our life here on this earth. Walking by the spirit stops this from occurring as we learn how to life by His life that is now in us. But to say that we get "un-joined" to Christ is complete foolishness. We don't water down the gospel because of this - instead we need to be giving the believers the proper nutrients about the love and grace of our Lord for us.
Why not preach and teach the love and grace of God so that people will grow up in the Lord Jesus?
This is a complete waste of time and is a blight on the work of Christ that He has done for us. Jesus is NOT a liar.
Happy to.
In Mark 1:15 John, the Apostle, is saying to repent and believe the gospel.
He was the last O.T. prophet (really Jesus was, but we can't include Him: Jesus was a Prophet, a King, and a Priest).
So John taught repentance. God does not change.
Any tract will tell you the way to be saved:
We are born lost.
Jesus has come to save that which is lost. Mathew 18:11 Mathew 1:21
You must be aware that you are a sinner. Romans 3:23
You must want to be saved, or be sorrowful 2 Corinthians 7:10
Now you repent, turn around... Luke 13:3
Confess your sins 1 John 1:9
Our faith saves us 1 John 5:4
So repentance is up there.
Repent means to change one's mind, to TURN AROUND, and go the other way.
So we repent of past sins
We confess future sins
As long as we believe and have faith in Jesus who saves us, we will be saved.
(if one is not sorry for their sins, could they be saved?? No.)
Do you agree?
2 Timothy 2:11-13King James Version [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This is so simple my handicapped kid can understand it. The only people who have difficulty with this are those who teach in error you can lose salvation....
This is no different than saying....
If you believe on Jesus your saved, If you reject Jesus your lost....end of story!
a. If your dead with Christ (saved) you will also live with Christ<-Jesus told Pharisees they could not go where he was going because they did not believe
b. If we suffer with him we will reign with him<--Jesus said that those who are faithful over much will rule over much
c. TOO ALL WHO WILL DENY HIM (THE LOST) DENY him or REJECT HIM YOU WILL BE DENIED AND REJECTED as well....THIS IS NOT directed at those who ACKNOLWLDGE HIM and the QUALIFYING VERSE IS FOUND IN VS 13 WHICH IS DIRECTED at those who have BELIEVED AND ACKNLWLEDGED HIM.
d. AFTER BELIEF if we lose FAITH he will ABIDE FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF......
This is as simple as 1+1=2........
HE SAID....I WILL FINISH WHAT I STARTED.....we had ZERO to do with our salvation other than acknowledging...
GOD calls men to salvation
God convicts men of their need
GOD convicts men of their sin
GOD gives a measure of FAITH
GOD saves
GOD justifies
GOD Sanctifies (positionally)
GOD seals
NO MAN comes unto the FATHER unless they are DRAWN of the SPIRIT....IF JESUS begins the WORK, by the above, JESUS will finish the work..
YOU believe your saved
YOU reject and deny YOU WILL be rejected and DENIED
PETER is the PROOF of what I JUST SAID.....HEBREWS states that if it can be LOST it cannot be REGAINED
PETER DENIED the LORD 3 times and used foul verbiage to deny the LORD, yet NEVER lost his salvation and or was DENIED BY JESUS, HE WAS reprimanded, convicted and repented and NEVER LOST IT.........
I stand amazed at the BLINDNESS of those who ACTUALLY NAME JESUS!
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This is so simple my handicapped kid can understand it. The only people who have difficulty with this are those who teach in error you can lose salvation....
This is no different than saying....
If you believe on Jesus your saved, If you reject Jesus your lost....end of story!
a. If your dead with Christ (saved) you will also live with Christ<-Jesus told Pharisees they could not go where he was going because they did not believe
b. If we suffer with him we will reign with him<--Jesus said that those who are faithful over much will rule over much
c. TOO ALL WHO WILL DENY HIM (THE LOST) DENY him or REJECT HIM YOU WILL BE DENIED AND REJECTED as well....THIS IS NOT directed at those who ACKNOLWLDGE HIM and the QUALIFYING VERSE IS FOUND IN VS 13 WHICH IS DIRECTED at those who have BELIEVED AND ACKNLWLEDGED HIM.
d. AFTER BELIEF if we lose FAITH he will ABIDE FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF......
This is as simple as 1+1=2........
HE SAID....I WILL FINISH WHAT I STARTED.....we had ZERO to do with our salvation other than acknowledging...
GOD calls men to salvation
God convicts men of their need
GOD convicts men of their sin
GOD gives a measure of FAITH
GOD saves
GOD justifies
GOD Sanctifies (positionally)
GOD seals
NO MAN comes unto the FATHER unless they are DRAWN of the SPIRIT....IF JESUS begins the WORK, by the above, JESUS will finish the work..
YOU believe your saved
YOU reject and deny YOU WILL be rejected and DENIED
PETER is the PROOF of what I JUST SAID.....HEBREWS states that if it can be LOST it cannot be REGAINED
PETER DENIED the LORD 3 times and used foul verbiage to deny the LORD, yet NEVER lost his salvation and or was DENIED BY JESUS, HE WAS reprimanded, convicted and repented and NEVER LOST IT.........
I stand amazed at the BLINDNESS of those who ACTUALLY NAME JESUS!
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Is this a well argued respectful way of handling people who love Christ,
yet feel infinite security in Christ is a denial of love and free will?
I would suggest this is the true intent of this group, to destroy and remove
such opposition from the fellowship of believers.
The declaration is this is the worst sin to the body
of Christ than any other false doctrine
There have been many false doctrines in the church, and G7 represents such
anger and hatred against believers it testifies to its source and delusion.
It is laughable that people take such anger and hatred seriously, but it is
obvious they do, because it is wrapped up in such a nice package, though
obviously extremely destructive and abusive as this post demonstrates.
By the way, such declarations of intent are just stupid, because they show
how bitter and twisted the spirit is within someone.
If you guys cannot see this, that a non OSAS is not the worst thing that has
happened to the church, it is the real definition of a delusion, because to the
individual themselves they are testifying about their position
how bitter and twisted the spirit is within someone.
If you guys cannot see this, that a non OSAS is not the worst thing that has
happened to the church, it is the real definition of a delusion, because to the
individual themselves they are testifying about their position
I will leave a couple of things just for others reading this horrid thread so that they can be assured of they are safe in Christ.
Never take an obscure scripture that seems to "contradict" what the many very clear scriptures say on a subject. It means we are not interpreting it correctly in the light of the finished work of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Here is one thing to consider...
Remember too that the Greek word for "deny is also shown to mean contradict". If we say something that is not true - Jesus will "contradict" us. If we say that Jesus will not save us and keep us - He will "contradict" that statement.
arneomai - to deny
perhaps from <G1> (a) (as a negative particle) and the middle of <G4483> (rheo); to contradict,
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Never take an obscure scripture that seems to "contradict" what the many very clear scriptures say on a subject. It means we are not interpreting it correctly in the light of the finished work of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Here is one thing to consider...
Remember too that the Greek word for "deny is also shown to mean contradict". If we say something that is not true - Jesus will "contradict" us. If we say that Jesus will not save us and keep us - He will "contradict" that statement.
arneomai - to deny
perhaps from <G1> (a) (as a negative particle) and the middle of <G4483> (rheo); to contradict,
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
The warnings are for loss of salvation.
Please read:
2 Peter 1:5-10
2 Peter 2:20-22
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 6:4-6
Philippians 3:12-14
Romans 11:22
1 Corinthians 9:27
1 Corinthians 10:12
Colossians 1:21
Hebrews 3:12
Romans 6:2-10
Luke 6:46
Romans 11:17
John 15:1
John 15:5
Hebrews 10:23
BTW, Hebrews 10:23 is much like 2 Timothy 2:13.
God is FAITHFUL to HIMSELF. He maintains HIS word. He will save us and has made that provision from the beginning.
It's up to us to WANT IT, till we die.
I repeat
2 Timothy 2:12 and 13 CANNOT Contradict each other.
verse 12 says that if WE DENY Christ, He will DENY US.
verse 13 says that GOD IS FAITHFUL TO HIS OWN WORD.
Please confirm.
Need more scripture???
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