Eve did not sin by eating of the tree.

[EmethAlethia]

1 Timothy 2 v 13-14 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And it was not Adam
who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

Transgression. Not sin From G3845; violation: - breaking, transgression.

Sin: Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

You will never find a verse that states Eve sinned. If she did, prove it.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sinG266 entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

We have no right to add, subtract or distort the meaning of scriptures to hold fast to what we "want to believe" "as" truth. Show me where Eve sinned and how. Don't leave scriptures out. Don't add meaning not in any scripture, and don't distort any meaning to hold fast to your belief and correct me. I am open to altering my beliefs. Are you?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Thank you, another thing about His word I can ponder on.

Lol, probably nagged him to death to eat the apple!

Eve: "Go on, just one bite! It tastes really good! Go on! EAT IT!"

 

[GWH]

Wonderful. Prove me wrong. Sin entered into the world through one woman ... ok. the scriptures are wrong and you are right. Prove it.

The problem is, she ate and did not die ... later she gave to Adam. And THEN both there eyes were opened. How long was the time period in-between? Eve wasn't there. Only Adam. Three times God ONLY addresses Adam (You singular) with regards to eating the tree. Never Eve. The only time God addresses Eve it is with regards to Adam's statement: The woman that You (singular) gave to me gave to me from the tree and I ate." God turns to Eve and says "What is THIS that you have done?". "This" refers directly to the statement.

The only way for anyone to sin, apart from the knowledge of good and evil is to disobey a direct command of God. There was no command of God to Eve to obey Adam or not to eat of the tree. Prove your point.


Nope. Nothing at all happened when she ate. Not a thing. Prove your point.

God didn't command Eve ANYTHING. Adam's misrepresenting God said (Not that this isn't happening right now.) is the "deception" that occurred. If Adam had simply stated "God told me if I ever ate of the fruit of the tree I'd die." Odds are much better we'd still be in Eden. But He altered what God said, told Eve a lie, she bought it, and they, and we suffered for it.


Oh, there were consequences, but not for "sinning" or sin entered into the world through one woman and Jesus would have to been born a woman to correct that original sin. Eve failed to be a helper suitable for Adam (The reason she was created) when? At what moment? Adam was created to be the glory of God. Eve to be the glory of man. To make them "Look Good". At what moment did Adam fail in the role for which He was created? At what moment did Eve fail in the role for which she was created?

I don't have a problem with being wrong. Just prove it from the scriptures.

Re "later she gave to Adam": No, at essentially the same time, which is why both of their eyes were opened,
both realized they were naked, and both sewed fig leaves together (Gen. 3:6-7). Both Eve and Adam co-committed the first sin.

Jesus being born of a woman simply means that the Word became incarnate and Immanuel/human in order to die as the atonement for that original sin and every other sin that followed.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Actually, A&E were partners in crime (Gen. 3:6-7). The serpent contradicted God

Actually, the first "deception" was Adam's, not the serpents. The first part is a question:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

Not a deception. The serpents statement is 100% truth. She did not have her eyes opened at all till she gave Adam the fruit and she ate. NO CONSEQUENCES AT ALL. There was no violation of the will of God.

" Gen 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest you die.'" 4 And the serpent said to the woman, "You surely shall not die! 5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

I do not have a problem with changing my beliefs. Just do so without adding, subtracting or distorting the clear meaning of scripture to do so.

and thereby tempted A&E to commit the first sin. In Gen. 2:17, God had told Adam who told Eve they would die if they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil,

God NEVER said "They" would die if "They" ate. NEVER. Adam never knew there was going to be an Eve till after she was created. That's the point. Adam "Deceived" his wife.

but the serpent introduced the option of ungodliness or functional atheism, which they chose. The first or original sin was not eating physical fruit, but rather choosing not to doubt the Devil, not to believe/cooperate with God, and not asking God why the serpent contradicted what He had told them (Matt. 7:7). It is wise to question God.

Ok ... where in scripture does this come from? I see the (2) reasons Adam got his consequences.

Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.

Oh, and by the way, the (You) in every part of the verse above, is singular. Adam alone.

A&E tried to cover up their crime, refusing to accept responsibility for their mistakes. They should have confessed immediately (1John 1:9). Instead their ungodly attitude was manifested by a chain of sins, including their silly attempt to hide from God and to blame someone else and very likely “dysfunctional” parenting that probably contributed to the emotional disturbance (anger) in Cain that resulted in the murder of Abel and so on and so forth through the millenniums, initiating humanity’s sinful history of “King of the Hill” (KOTH) strife.

We can guess all we want. But best not to simply guess at the meaning of scripture. And you are right. there is no blaming our origins for how we turn out. We all just start at different points. The path, and the "Fruits" resulting from it, determine where we end up.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Interesting enough, Adam was punished for listening to his wife.

Genesis
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Absolutely. But listening wasn't the main problem for Adam. He distorted the meaning of God's word when He shared with Eve. He "deceived" her by not telling her the exact truth of what God commanded. If he had told her exactly, we'd have had a better chance of still being in Eden.

Ephesians 5
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Prophetic
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Oh ... do I dare ... LOL

1Co 14:34 Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

 

[EmethAlethia]

She probably became a sinner the moment she acted on the serpent's temptation.

Explain this from scripture please. Without the knowledge of good and evil, and without any command of God not to listen to anyone or anything else, how can a person sin? She wasn't tempted to do anything wrong at all.

The serpent actually told her the truth. She didn't die when she ate. She died when she violated the very reasons for which she was created. Same as Adam did. Eve was created to be a helper suitable to him. How's she help Adam out? She helped him out of the will of God, out of the garden, ...

 

[EmethAlethia]

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

By the way, the word "Sin" and the word "Transgressed" are completely different Greek words.

παράβασις : parabasis : par-ab'-as-is
From G3845; violation: - breaking, transgression.

ἁμαρτάνω : hamartanō : ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

You'll never find a place where Eve "Sinned" in scripture. Yes she did fail / transgress the moment she got Adam to eat. Thus, it's also when she received her consequences.

Sounds to me like she became a sinner the moment she believed the serpent's lie.

Just because she was not held responsible for sin entering the world, does not negate her suffering the consequences of God's word. The fact remains, she still died on the day she ate. As she was not directly given the command from God but received it from Adam, she was still obligated to obey however, she came under God's mercy for He has mercy on the ignorant. 1Tim.1:13 While she knew the command, it is obvious she didn't truly understand it for she added to it.

As you rightly say, we are born sinners because of Adam, yet who can look upon a baby and see it is a sinner? Sin likes to hide in the dark, therefore just because the sin is not obvious, doesn't mean it is not there.

 

[Gideon300]

1.) Because of Adam’s “Choice” Every man starts out spiritually dead.

2.) Eve was not Created when Adam was given the command not to eat. Gen 2:16-17, Gen. 2:21-23

3.) God says three times the command was only for Adam (Singular) not Adam and Eve. Gen 2:16-17, Gen 3:11, Gen 3:17

4.) Eve got God’s command wrong. She adds, “Nor touch it.”. Gen. 3:3

5.) Nothing happened when Eve ate. Gen. 3:6 (Satan’s statement in Gen 3:4 was not a lie. The statement about her knowing good and evil on the day she ate of it, was. It was Adam’s eating that resulted in them both gaining the knowledge of good and evil.) There is a time laps between her eating and Adam’s eating. When He ate, “Both” of their eyes were opened. Gen 3:7

6.) When God questions Eve, the question “What is this that you have done?”, it refers to Adam’s statement, made just prior, that Eve had given him the fruit. God never asks anyone whether Eve ate the fruit as well. Eve “believed”, due to receiving incorrect information about God’s command, God’s question referred to her eating, but that was not the case. Gen. 3:12-13

7.) Eve’s consequences were for failing in the role for which she was created: To be a helper suitable for him. Gen. 2:18, 1Co. 11:7 And she didn’t fail in that role till the moment she got Adam to eat from the fruit of the tree. At that moment, her eyes were opened as well.

8.) God’s word says, “Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, so death spread to all men.”. Rom. 5:12 If Eve’s eating was a sin, it would have to say, “Through one woman sin entered into the world.”.

A distinction without a difference. Women are born sinners just as much as men.

 

[EmethAlethia]

It is interesting to consider possibilities. For example, if Eve had responded;

Hath God truly said...
I can't remember exactly, let's ask him.

Well, that would presume Eve was created with a very flawed memory or that she had a reason not to trust what Adam told her was true. I can't see this hapening.

or

What if Adam saw what she did and asked God what could be done and he paid for her sin by (being so far sinless) being put to death and resurrected.

LOL And that would presume Adam knew absolutely all the New and Old Testament and could understand what a substitutionary death was. Plus, since Eve didn't sin first, Adam did, he couldn't die for anyone's sins but his own. So that couldn't happen even if he did have that knowledge.

 

[EmethAlethia]

the truth about the fall is here plain as day for all to see in the bible texts itself;

The Fall​

Gen 3:1 -3 : Eve knew before she ate!

Eve knew nothing but the lies/distortions her husband told her.

Gen 3:4-6: Eve willingly disobeyed God's command not to eat of that tree under the penalty of death! She believed the Lie instrad of obeying God's clear command not to eat.

Eve NEVER disobeyed God's commands in Genesis. God says 3 times he gave Adam (Singular) the command. It was for him alone. Nothing happened when Eve ate. Nothing at all. We don't know how much earlier Eve ate, could have been seconds, could have been years. (But probably not.) But nothing at all happened till she handed the fruit to Adam and got him to eat.

Yes. Eve believed Adam's lie. God NEVER gave Eve any command at all about the tree.

Gen 3:7-11

Gen 3:12 And the man answered, “The woman whom You gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” “The serpent deceived me,” she replied, “and I ate.”

Bingo. What is the "THIS" referring to? Adam's statement, right. So, what is it God is questioning Eve on? Her eating? That has absolutely nothing at all to do with the conversation. He didn't turn to Eve and ask, "Did you eat of the tree as well?" Hew only refers to what she did in Adam's statement.

Gen 3:14-15 : SO nothing happened????

Show me what happened the moment Eve supposedly violated a command never given to her and never meant for her at all.

Gen 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; ...

and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

She ate. Nothing at all happened. THEN she also gave it to her husband and he ate. THEN, and only THEN, ...

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

Gen 3:16-19: SO nothing happened????

At the moment Adam sinned and Eve failed in the role for which she was created, yes. a whole heck of a lot happened. That was never a part of the post.

Gen 3:20-24 : Yes Eve sinned when she ate of the tree this is what the bible says!

You didn't get that from scripture. Through one man sin entered into the world.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Without adding, subtracting, or distorting the meaning of scripture to hold fast to what you want to believe, or showing me where I did so, can you make a case?

 

[lrs68]

Eve knew and quoted God

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Eve new what God had said before she ate of the fruit.. Because she said to satan..

Genesis 3:2 - Genesis 3:5
(Genesis 3:2-5) "And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: {3} But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. {4} And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: {5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

So before Satan tempted Eve she already know Gods comandment against eating of it..

Ok, so we know what Eve said is not what God told Adam before she was created, right. The "or even touch it part". We also know nothing at all happened when she ate. Nothing at all. And we have no idea how long that time period was between when she ate, and when she gave Adam the fruit and got him to eat.

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

So, was Eve supposed to obey Adam? Nope. That was a consequence of the fall (See the original post). Was she supposed to obey a made-up command God never gave to anyone, including Adam, and not eat or touch it? If she invented the game baseball and got Adam to hit the fruit with a bat, would he have sinned?

Are you saying disobeying someone's made up commands, stating they are from God, is a sin? Sorry, I'm not getting it.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Thank you, another thing about His word I can ponder on.

Awesome ... I love it. There are a ton of these out there.

For example, David became one flesh (Took as wives) 7 other women before he committed adultery and then became one flesh (took as wives) at least 10, possibly as many as 20 additional wives. Yet God says his only sins were with regards to "Uriah the Hittite". Even the numbering of the people wasn't a sin. David felt bad about it, but God claimed it was Him who enticed David to do that.

God also claims He gave David the wives of His enemies and was prepared to give him many more (If he would have avoided adultery.) There are 2 passages where the word of God says God took multiple wives (Anyone want to pick up a stone and stone God for adultery?) He didn't commit adultery. They committed adultery against Him. While Solomon was reproved for his wives, it was never for the number of them, it was because their faith wasn't in God. One Flesh, a thousand wives. How many times does it say Solomon committed adultery?

Now ... going by our modern definition, and leaving the scriptural definition behind, how many wives can you and I have without committing adultery?

 

[dkontner]

Awesome ... I love it. There are a ton of these out there.

For example, David became one flesh (Took as wives) 7 other women before he committed adultery and then became one flesh (took as wives) at least 10, possibly as many as 20 additional wives. Yet God says his only sins were with regards to "Uriah the Hittite". Even the numbering of the people wasn't a sin. David felt bad about it, but God claimed it was Him who enticed David to do that.

God also claims He gave David the wives of His enemies and was prepared to give him many more (If he would have avoided adultery.) There are 2 passages where the word of God says God took multiple wives (Anyone want to pick up a stone and stone God for adultery?) He didn't commit adultery. They committed adultery against Him. While Solomon was reproved for his wives, it was never for the number of them, it was because their faith wasn't in God. One Flesh, a thousand wives. How many times does it say Solomon committed adultery?

Now ... going by our modern definition, and leaving the scriptural definition behind, how many wives can you and I have without committing adultery?

Good bye, God bless

 

[EmethAlethia]

“Adam” is both a singular and a collective name.

So, ... You are saying God commanded you not to eat of the tree in the garden and all your grandchildren as well ... all at the same time? When no one else was there? Really? if God wanted Eve to obey He'd have given them the command at the same time he told BOTH of them to rule overt the earth and be fruitful and multiply. He waited for BOTH when the commands were meant for BOTH. Think it through.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Really EmethAlethia? Then why did she die? And why does scripture say the following?

Romans 3:23​

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

She died because she failed in both roles for which she was created. She had absolutely no consequences at all till she gave to Adam and got him to eat. You have to ignore the details of the passage, and all the other passages on sin entering into the world through one man, ... Eve was "in transgression" at the moment she got Adam to eat. Not until. And it was not "sin". You'll never find a passage that says Eve sinned when she ate. Did she have other sins. Yes. But sin and death spread to all mankind, including Eve, when HE ate.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Well, that is possible because she did not die when she touched the fruit, which was permissible per God's command (Gen. 2:16),
even though she had sinned per her addition to/understanding of GW (Rom. 14:22-23).

Understand ... knowledge of good and evil was not hers at all. When she touched the fruit, nor when she ate. And disobedience to a made up command, as if from God, that really had nothing at all to do with you, or anyone else, is not a sin, is it? God has said, "Thou shalt not eat pizza on Tuesday.". There you go. Now, if you eat pizza on Tuesday you have sinned.

 

[EmethAlethia]

God never said they would die the instant they ate. Christ did not die the instant our sins were placed on Him but He did die on the same day which, was not the general rule for crucifixions.

Genesis 2:17
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Paul tells us she became a sinner when she was deceived.

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
And James confirms we are led astray at the moment our desires take precedence over God's word which then leads to overt sin.

James 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
And Christ confirmed sin begins in the heart.

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
And we see this in the original sinner, Lucifer. He was judged for what only God could see.

Isaiah 14:13
For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;

Eve became a sinner the moment she rejected the truth of God and replaced it with the lie of the serpent. That God did not hold her responsible in the instant is because she was deceived and He is merciful on those who are ignorant in unbelief. (1Tim.1:13)
However, she still suffered exactly in accordance with the word of God in that "she died on the day she ate".

God confirms three times the command was only for Adam. (Singular, not plural You's)

The "Death" was instantaneous the moment Adam ate, for all humanity. Separation from God. Having an eternity in hell in store for us in our future. It's why God killed the animals and clothed them with skins. If I state God commands you to never to open your eyes again." Are you obligated to obey God's command? God never gave Eve a command. She had no knowledge of good and evil. She was not commanded to obey Adam. That's a consequence of the fall. Do you have to obey made up commands of God? God says stand on one foot till I say otherwise. LOL Hermeneutical contortionism ... God did not hold Eve responsible for obeying a command He never gave, and had nothing at all to do with anything? LOL Merciful? There was nothing to be merciful for ... UNTIL she gave to Adam the fruit and got him to eat. Let's not add, subtract or distort the meaning of scriptures in an attempt to force them to align with our beliefs.

If I added, subtracted, or distorted any meaning, in an attempt to hold fast to ANY beliefs, please point it out.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Re "God never said they would die the instant they ate."
Yes, but they did not understand metaphorical words might convey spiritual truth.
That ignorance resulted in sin and ultimate death unless God provided a way to be saved.

Well spiritual death - separation from God and being doomed for hell without a sacrifice was instantaneous ... death spread to all men ... so the "second" death was instantaneous. The 1st death took a while.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Re "later she gave to Adam": No, at essentially the same time, which is why both of their eyes were opened,
both realized they were naked, and both sewed fig leaves together (Gen. 3:6-7). Both Eve and Adam co-committed the first sin.

Jesus being born of a woman simply means that the Word became incarnate and Immanuel/human in order to die as the atonement for that original sin and every other sin that followed.

It was AFTER nothing happened when she ate. There is no sin, no violation, no transgression. While both were commanded to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the earth, this ONE command was for Adam alone. Not for Eve at all. Adam made up what he told Eve out of whole cloth. No command was given that she obey Adam till the consequences of the fall. Through ONE MAN sin entered into the world.

Adding meaning that isn't present in scripture. Leaving meaning out that is present in scripture. Attempting to distort or twist meaning in an effort to hold fast to a belief. "That which we love least is always forced to conform to what we love most. Every man either loves truth or they love their beliefs." Me Without adding, subtracting or distorting meaning from any passage that might apply to the topic, show me where I am wrong.