EVIDENCE OF GOD not Circular Reasoning

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Feb 28, 2020
34
14
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#1
To answer those that ask, why would a reasonable man even say there is an invisible God?

We answer There is a God because we have One that is recorded saying, He is God, and that He is the only God.
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isa 45:22

Should you believe that recording because some man wrote it down 3000 years ago?

Well The importance needs to be investigated. HE is recorded by many more than one first hand witness, more like around 39 stenographers, prophets, going back about 4500 years ago, up until about 100 years after Jesus death, recorded in over 65 books.
He Proclaimed to be God, and had man record Him telling of the events back into the ages, of Noah, and even before that, recording events back into eternity in God garden. As if that was not difficult enough to record, this One claiming HE is God also proclaimed this miraculous declaration, a Proclamation by this ONE GOD is:

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Isa 46:9-10

Foretell the end times from the beginning days, and have His word preserved for all generations to read even through this day. No man can do that, write the end times from the beginning.
All The stenographers/ prophets of His Word claimed it was not their words. In one case the prophet Jeremiah, told God he could not be a prophet he was a child and
"Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth." Jere 1:5; 9.
God is also recorded Proclaiming another miraculous event:
"Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded." Isa 45 11-12

God commanding they ask Him of things to come regarding His Children and when they do ask, He then makes great declarations and proclamations, about His children future, their trials, their failures, their redemptions and their endings, all recorded, over the millenniums, in over 65 books. And here we are now, the end times, showing HIS prophecies recorded back then, are True today, as we give witness to the Father, the God of Abraham, and HIS SON THE LIVING WORD OF GOD.
This Evidence also confirms God is honoring His everlasting covenant, He made with Abraham some 5,000 years ago, and His seed after him. Gen 17:3-7, And God protects His children like the apple of His eye. Zech 2:8.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
This was Prophesied by the One God in the OT too:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

The Son of God is the everlasting living Word of God that was Manifested in the flesh, most call him Jesus, some call him Yeshua, The living word of God, The SON, THE INHERITOR OF ALL THINGS none other than the ALMIGHTY GOD !!!

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." -Jesus Rev 1:8

Know God is One with His Word. You cannot separate the word of God from God as they are ONE. You hear the word God, you hear God. Only The Father can send the Son,, and did as the Sacrificial lamb for all that believed and repent might be saved. Acts 18:11 Jn 3:17
And we do believe the only begotten SON OF GOD inherited all things from his FATHER, John 16:15, this includes Almighty. Rev 1:8. by which also HE made the worlds, and your soul. Heb 1:2 Gen 2 7.
So One God DWELLING IN HIS WORD.
I wanted to concentrate on His word, as recorded, and clearly showing using the bible to provide the evidence of God is not circular reasoning. A very, century, old debate. I feel we have put that argument to bed, a few decades ago now, with HIS Evidence.

The recorded Word of God, included His prophecies of events to come, and that is needed to confirm His word as true or not. Nothing circular about that. But Good scientific preservation.

Now, before we can get to the list of His evidence, we have to talk about another very important piece of His evidence that we all know and see as true in our daily lives. There is Good. And there is evil. If you're too young to know this, then perhaps you can take a guided trip to the depths of our prisons, not only here, but in the third world countries too and then you too will agree it's undeniable there is Evil. The October 7th attacks showed us what evil look like. Using military grade weapons on concert goers. As they burn them in their cars with their children, at fifty four hundred degrees, using thermobaric grenades and beheaded their babies.
The battle between that which is good, and that which is evil is evident through out the ages since the beginning, as recorded with Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve and we also choosing to do that which is good or that which is evil and it is judged, as foretold in HIS recorded word. John 5 29.
This choice is the common denominator of all mankind.
You cannot know God without the word God. Without the Word of God any god would be an imaginary god. Something you or someone else made up. The Word of God tells you about the leaders of Good and evil that is evident and been known since the beginning of mankind.

List of some other evidence. Not a complete list as this is getting lenghty.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

God provides rewards to those obedient to the faith. These rewards of God are evidence of God and His Word as true too. The blessings include but not limited too, love, health, peace, strength, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, jobs and national security, and too many to mention. Point being rewards of God also give evidence to God. Especially when it came to winning wars. Just ask the victors!
Below are some additional considerations to HIS evidence.
2. Creation through Seed Planting. Promises made to Abraham and his Seed after him. Issac and his seed after him. Your creation was witnessed as you plant seeds too.
3. Changed lives "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17): Matt 7:7
4. Personal experiences and answered prayers
"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Visible things. (Jere 33:3)
5. Historical and archaeological evidence supporting biblical accounts. Many documentaries.
6. Personal relationship and communication with God through prayer and scripture.
7, My favorite the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is known and evident in all that have received Him.
God is not without evidence but has a lot of evidence. And our Faith is well grounded in the Evidence of God.
These evidences collectively demonstrate God's existence, visibility, and involvement in the world, from the creation of the universe to the transformation of individual lives through faith and prayer.

I pray this helps bring much insight and understanding of His Word, in Jesus name. Amen.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,511
1,812
113
46
#2
Who is your audience here? Christians or unbelievers?
Because as Christians you should know that most Christians in the world and in this forum are not at the beginning stage where they are looking for evidence of God.
As a Christian I generally agree with your message except a couple of points. You also left out miracles, that’s one of the biggest evidence for God.
But a nonbeliever would not listen to this and would walk away the moment you quoted The Bible.

So, know your audience and craft your message.
 
Feb 28, 2020
34
14
8
#3
Who is your audience here? Christians or unbelievers?
Because as Christians you should know that most Christians in the world and in this forum are not at the beginning stage where they are looking for evidence of God.
As a Christian I generally agree with your message except a couple of points. You also left out miracles, that’s one of the biggest evidence for God.
But a nonbeliever would not listen to this and would walk away the moment you quoted The Bible.

So, know your audience and craft your message.
Well , i'm glad you know what everybody's looking for and whats everybody's going to listen to. Too bad you can't stay on topic.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,511
1,812
113
46
#4
Well , i'm glad you know what everybody's looking for and whats everybody's going to listen to. Too bad you can't stay on topic.
All i'm saying is that to be understood by another party in the audience, it helps if you did some research and know the audience.
But from your response it sounds like you've got your mind made up which is the default stance in today's world which is having a breakdown in communication.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,695
13,514
113
#5
To answer those that ask, why would a reasonable man even say there is an invisible God?

We answer There is a God because we have One that is recorded saying, He is God, and that He is the only God.
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isa 45:22

Should you believe that recording because some man wrote it down 3000 years ago?

Well The importance needs to be investigated. HE is recorded by many more than one first hand witness, more like around 39 stenographers, prophets, going back about 4500 years ago, up until about 100 years after Jesus death, recorded in over 65 books.
He Proclaimed to be God, and had man record Him telling of the events back into the ages, of Noah, and even before that, recording events back into eternity in God garden. As if that was not difficult enough to record, this One claiming HE is God also proclaimed this miraculous declaration, a Proclamation by this ONE GOD is:

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Isa 46:9-10

Foretell the end times from the beginning days, and have His word preserved for all generations to read even through this day. No man can do that, write the end times from the beginning.
All The stenographers/ prophets of His Word claimed it was not their words. In one case the prophet Jeremiah, told God he could not be a prophet he was a child and
"Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth." Jere 1:5; 9.
God is also recorded Proclaiming another miraculous event:
"Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded." Isa 45 11-12

God commanding they ask Him of things to come regarding His Children and when they do ask, He then makes great declarations and proclamations, about His children future, their trials, their failures, their redemptions and their endings, all recorded, over the millenniums, in over 65 books. And here we are now, the end times, showing HIS prophecies recorded back then, are True today, as we give witness to the Father, the God of Abraham, and HIS SON THE LIVING WORD OF GOD.
This Evidence also confirms God is honoring His everlasting covenant, He made with Abraham some 5,000 years ago, and His seed after him. Gen 17:3-7, And God protects His children like the apple of His eye. Zech 2:8.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
This was Prophesied by the One God in the OT too:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

The Son of God is the everlasting living Word of God that was Manifested in the flesh, most call him Jesus, some call him Yeshua, The living word of God, The SON, THE INHERITOR OF ALL THINGS none other than the ALMIGHTY GOD !!!

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." -Jesus Rev 1:8

Know God is One with His Word. You cannot separate the word of God from God as they are ONE. You hear the word God, you hear God. Only The Father can send the Son,, and did as the Sacrificial lamb for all that believed and repent might be saved. Acts 18:11 Jn 3:17
And we do believe the only begotten SON OF GOD inherited all things from his FATHER, John 16:15, this includes Almighty. Rev 1:8. by which also HE made the worlds, and your soul. Heb 1:2 Gen 2 7.
So One God DWELLING IN HIS WORD.
I wanted to concentrate on His word, as recorded, and clearly showing using the bible to provide the evidence of God is not circular reasoning. A very, century, old debate. I feel we have put that argument to bed, a few decades ago now, with HIS Evidence.

The recorded Word of God, included His prophecies of events to come, and that is needed to confirm His word as true or not. Nothing circular about that. But Good scientific preservation.

Now, before we can get to the list of His evidence, we have to talk about another very important piece of His evidence that we all know and see as true in our daily lives. There is Good. And there is evil. If you're too young to know this, then perhaps you can take a guided trip to the depths of our prisons, not only here, but in the third world countries too and then you too will agree it's undeniable there is Evil. The October 7th attacks showed us what evil look like. Using military grade weapons on concert goers. As they burn them in their cars with their children, at fifty four hundred degrees, using thermobaric grenades and beheaded their babies.
The battle between that which is good, and that which is evil is evident through out the ages since the beginning, as recorded with Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve and we also choosing to do that which is good or that which is evil and it is judged, as foretold in HIS recorded word. John 5 29.
This choice is the common denominator of all mankind.
You cannot know God without the word God. Without the Word of God any god would be an imaginary god. Something you or someone else made up. The Word of God tells you about the leaders of Good and evil that is evident and been known since the beginning of mankind.

List of some other evidence. Not a complete list as this is getting lenghty.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

God provides rewards to those obedient to the faith. These rewards of God are evidence of God and His Word as true too. The blessings include but not limited too, love, health, peace, strength, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, jobs and national security, and too many to mention. Point being rewards of God also give evidence to God. Especially when it came to winning wars. Just ask the victors!
Below are some additional considerations to HIS evidence.
2. Creation through Seed Planting. Promises made to Abraham and his Seed after him. Issac and his seed after him. Your creation was witnessed as you plant seeds too.
3. Changed lives "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17): Matt 7:7
4. Personal experiences and answered prayers
"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Visible things. (Jere 33:3)
5. Historical and archaeological evidence supporting biblical accounts. Many documentaries.
6. Personal relationship and communication with God through prayer and scripture.
7, My favorite the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is known and evident in all that have received Him.
God is not without evidence but has a lot of evidence. And our Faith is well grounded in the Evidence of God.
These evidences collectively demonstrate God's existence, visibility, and involvement in the world, from the creation of the universe to the transformation of individual lives through faith and prayer.

I pray this helps bring much insight and understanding of His Word, in Jesus name. Amen.
can't the Hindu point to the Vedas and also say look, we have a written document declaring deity of our gods?
 
Feb 28, 2020
34
14
8
#6
All i'm saying is that to be understood by another party in the audience, it helps if you did some research and know the audience.
But from your response it sounds like you've got your mind made up which is the default stance in today's world which is having a breakdown in communication.
You made a stupid argument for the other party That has every opportunity to discredit their circular argument right here.. You made a stupid argument for the believers that liked to be grounded in faith. You made a stupid argument about who listens to what? That was all I was saying.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#7
The ancient Jews saw the "literal miracles" of God and saw God in person.
The New Testament audience also saw the same thing. Even non believers saw the miracles from Jesus and that caused them to follow Him.
But today, there is no God in person, and people can reason between was that I just saw a miracle or a fluke?
So it is much harder today than it was throughout the Bible.
And that is where "personal Testimony" comes into play. Someone who personally knows someone and knows they are trustworthy. And when that person says, let me tell you about a miracle. That opens the door because it can lead to explaining who Jesus is and how God created that miracle.
 
Feb 28, 2020
34
14
8
#8
can't the Hindu point to the Vedas and also say look, we have a written document declaring deity of our gods?
No. Let me put it this way.
OK, so if I went to some in Jan. of 2022. I told them Im gonna tell you who's gonna win the 2024 Super Bowl game, and I gonna tell you the final score will be and I'm gonna tell you who the opponent will be. AND I'm gonna tell you every game. The Super Bowl champions won during their The regular season and what the score was of each of those games.
Now I'll bet I'm right on every prediction. Now, Who wants to bet their life savings i'm wrong on at least one prediction? And no matter what happens during the season, we will settle up after the super bowl game of twenty twenty four.

Well, most everyone in the room wanted to bet their life Savings that I'd be wrong on at least one prediction. So I wrote it all down for them and gave them a copy.

The season came and went and after the superbowl game lo and behold everyone of them showed up, and said pay us You were wrong on the first day on the first game. Really? I said prove it. And lo and behold everyone pulled out their copy of all my predictions. written down. And I looked at them and I said, you can't use that ...that's circular reasoning!
The Hindu books have no such recordings
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,695
13,514
113
#10
No. Let me put it this way.
OK, so if I went to some in Jan. of 2022. I told them Im gonna tell you who's gonna win the 2024 Super Bowl game, and I gonna tell you the final score will be and I'm gonna tell you who the opponent will be. AND I'm gonna tell you every game. The Super Bowl champions won during their The regular season and what the score was of each of those games.
Now I'll bet I'm right on every prediction. Now, Who wants to bet their life savings i'm wrong on at least one prediction? And no matter what happens during the season, we will settle up after the super bowl game of twenty twenty four.

Well, most everyone in the room wanted to bet their life Savings that I'd be wrong on at least one prediction. So I wrote it all down for them and gave them a copy.

The season came and went and after the superbowl game lo and behold everyone of them showed up, and said pay us You were wrong on the first day on the first game. Really? I said prove it. And lo and behold everyone pulled out their copy of all my predictions. written down. And I looked at them and I said, you can't use that ...that's circular reasoning!
The Hindu books have no such recordings
the vedas, the koran and the book of mormon all contain prophesies. they all claim to record prophesies that came to pass, and make claims about prophesies that haven't come to pass yet, too.

how is the Bible different?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,695
13,514
113
#11
@Medad, playing 'devils advocate' here, to strengthen you, because @Eli1 is not wrong.

if you're trying to present an argument you need to know both your audience and what potential objections they will raise, and it's wise to be ready for both.
 
Feb 28, 2020
34
14
8
#12
the vedas, the koran and the book of mormon all contain prophesies. they all claim to record prophesies that came to pass, and make claims about prophesies that haven't come to pass yet, too.

how is the Bible different?
Not an extensive examination of the books you mentioned as the most ancient Hindu scriptures, written in early Sanskrit and containing hymns, philosophy, and guidance on ritual for the priests of Vedic religion.
Not prophetic.

Moses addresses the Qu'ran.
While Islam claims Moses is a great prophet, some Muslims even claim. He is divine, and they also believe jesus is a great prophet
"And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. Gen 17:19-21

In the above prophecy, by Moses, you see that the everlasting covenant, the word of God, was through Isaac seed, through king David all the way to Jesus, whom is the everlasting covenant, the Word of God Manifested in the flesh, His Word offered and sacrificed to man. Moses walked with the hebrews (1st hand witnesses) not the arabs. The arabs have no first hand witness of the great prophet moses, or the great prophet Jesus. BOTH WALK AND WERE RECORDED BY HEBREWS, JEWS. So much for the Qu'ran that was recorded over a 1000 years after the Septuagint.

As for Joseph Smith and the book of Mormons It was recorded in the early 18OO"s
and Paul addressed this clearly.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal:1:8

It was wrong to assume I didn't know my audience as Christians, silly really, and that he knows what the audience listens too. Christians are attacked by wiles of the devil Eph 6;11 and this article helps in being well grounded in the Evidence of God as HE provided.
 
Feb 28, 2020
34
14
8
#13
The ancient Jews saw the "literal miracles" of God and saw God in person.
The New Testament audience also saw the same thing. Even non believers saw the miracles from Jesus and that caused them to follow Him.
But today, there is no God in person, and people can reason between was that I just saw a miracle or a fluke?
So it is much harder today than it was throughout the Bible.
And that is where "personal Testimony" comes into play. Someone who personally knows someone and knows they are trustworthy. And when that person says, let me tell you about a miracle. That opens the door because it can lead to explaining who Jesus is and how God created that miracle.
Let me ask you this, someone tells you what's gonna happen in the future long after your going to be dead, well into the future. Do you wanna be there when they tell you writing it down, and perhaps hearing the personal testimonies of those who saw jesus's miracles but word traveled slow? Or do you want to be there after the events that are written down to see if they are True? Now who has more evidence? Personal testimonies are great but it's His word that saves you.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,695
13,514
113
#14
Not an extensive examination of the books you mentioned as the most ancient Hindu scriptures, written in early Sanskrit and containing hymns, philosophy, and guidance on ritual for the priests of Vedic religion.
Not prophetic.

Moses addresses the Qu'ran.
While Islam claims Moses is a great prophet, some Muslims even claim. He is divine, and they also believe jesus is a great prophet
"And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. Gen 17:19-21

In the above prophecy, by Moses, you see that the everlasting covenant, the word of God, was through Isaac seed, through king David all the way to Jesus, whom is the everlasting covenant, the Word of God Manifested in the flesh, His Word offered and sacrificed to man. Moses walked with the hebrews (1st hand witnesses) not the arabs. The arabs have no first hand witness of the great prophet moses, or the great prophet Jesus. BOTH WALK AND WERE RECORDED BY HEBREWS, JEWS. So much for the Qu'ran that was recorded over a 1000 years after the Septuagint.

As for Joseph Smith and the book of Mormons It was recorded in the early 18OO"s
and Paul addressed this clearly.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal:1:8

It was wrong to assume I didn't know my audience as Christians, silly really, and that he knows what the audience listens too. Christians are attacked by wiles of the devil Eph 6;11 and this article helps in being well grounded in the Evidence of God as HE provided.
you didn't really address my point -- let me put it more clearly:

the Bible is not the only religious text that contains (1) records of prophecy and claims about its fulfillment & (2) as-yet-unfulfilled prophecy about future events. in this aspect, what sets the Bible apart from the vedas, the koran, the b.o.m. etc?

simply saying that the koran & the b.o.m. are later texts than the Bible doesn't answer the question, and pointing out that the koran claims ishmael is the line of the promise while the Bible claims isaac is, doesn't address the point at all.

if "existence of prophecy about the future and records of ancient prophecy and corresponding ancient fulfillment of those prophesies" constitutes absolute proof that a text is from God, then the Bible isn't the only thing that fits the description. so there needs to be a stronger argument. even zoroasterism claims to have very old texts containing prophecy about the future and claiming to have had accurate predictions in the past, and right now in this very forum we've got some dude promoting some witch who claims to have mary telling her all about coming events ((https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/prophecies-from-luz-de-maria-from-jesus-christ-for-the-coming-years-2024-2033.213814/)). by your definitions this likely-demon-possessed woman would fit the bill too -- ignoring your argument about age; just because something is old doesn't make it true.

& afaik the Bible says nothing about specific american football games. lol. so that's purely imagination -- concrete examples are persuasive but fanciful hypotheticals are useless.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#15
Let me ask you this, someone tells you what's gonna happen in the future long after your going to be dead, well into the future. Do you wanna be there when they tell you writing it down, and perhaps hearing the personal testimonies of those who saw jesus's miracles but word traveled slow? Or do you want to be there after the events that are written down to see if they are True? Now who has more evidence? Personal testimonies are great but it's His word that saves you.
Look at Abraham. He was almost 100 years old before Isaac was born. Yet God told him he would be father to so many people it was compared to the number of the stars. Abraham never saw it while alive on earth, but he believed it would happen. King David and so many others have similar promises and examples like Abraham. They never saw but believed it.

So what I would want is to be with God, like Abraham was to have the promise told. Being with God person to person while told of my promise is much greater than what happens long after I am dead when the promise is fulfilled. In my opinion of course.

But we live in a day when a couple years from now Jesus could return. So I think right now personal testimony to others is a very good thing.
 

Miabella

New member
Mar 2, 2024
12
4
3
#16
To answer those that ask, why would a reasonable man even say there is an invisible God?

We answer There is a God because we have One that is recorded saying, He is God, and that He is the only God.
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isa 45:22

Should you believe that recording because some man wrote it down 3000 years ago?

Well The importance needs to be investigated. HE is recorded by many more than one first hand witness, more like around 39 stenographers, prophets, going back about 4500 years ago, up until about 100 years after Jesus death, recorded in over 65 books.
He Proclaimed to be God, and had man record Him telling of the events back into the ages, of Noah, and even before that, recording events back into eternity in God garden. As if that was not difficult enough to record, this One claiming HE is God also proclaimed this miraculous declaration, a Proclamation by this ONE GOD is:

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Isa 46:9-10

Foretell the end times from the beginning days, and have His word preserved for all generations to read even through this day. No man can do that, write the end times from the beginning.
All The stenographers/ prophets of His Word claimed it was not their words. In one case the prophet Jeremiah, told God he could not be a prophet he was a child and
"Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth." Jere 1:5; 9.
God is also recorded Proclaiming another miraculous event:
"Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded." Isa 45 11-12

God commanding they ask Him of things to come regarding His Children and when they do ask, He then makes great declarations and proclamations, about His children future, their trials, their failures, their redemptions and their endings, all recorded, over the millenniums, in over 65 books. And here we are now, the end times, showing HIS prophecies recorded back then, are True today, as we give witness to the Father, the God of Abraham, and HIS SON THE LIVING WORD OF GOD.
This Evidence also confirms God is honoring His everlasting covenant, He made with Abraham some 5,000 years ago, and His seed after him. Gen 17:3-7, And God protects His children like the apple of His eye. Zech 2:8.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
This was Prophesied by the One God in the OT too:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

The Son of God is the everlasting living Word of God that was Manifested in the flesh, most call him Jesus, some call him Yeshua, The living word of God, The SON, THE INHERITOR OF ALL THINGS none other than the ALMIGHTY GOD !!!

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." -Jesus Rev 1:8

Know God is One with His Word. You cannot separate the word of God from God as they are ONE. You hear the word God, you hear God. Only The Father can send the Son,, and did as the Sacrificial lamb for all that believed and repent might be saved. Acts 18:11 Jn 3:17
And we do believe the only begotten SON OF GOD inherited all things from his FATHER, John 16:15, this includes Almighty. Rev 1:8. by which also HE made the worlds, and your soul. Heb 1:2 Gen 2 7.
So One God DWELLING IN HIS WORD.
I wanted to concentrate on His word, as recorded, and clearly showing using the bible to provide the evidence of God is not circular reasoning. A very, century, old debate. I feel we have put that argument to bed, a few decades ago now, with HIS Evidence.

The recorded Word of God, included His prophecies of events to come, and that is needed to confirm His word as true or not. Nothing circular about that. But Good scientific preservation.

Now, before we can get to the list of His evidence, we have to talk about another very important piece of His evidence that we all know and see as true in our daily lives. There is Good. And there is evil. If you're too young to know this, then perhaps you can take a guided trip to the depths of our prisons, not only here, but in the third world countries too and then you too will agree it's undeniable there is Evil. The October 7th attacks showed us what evil look like. Using military grade weapons on concert goers. As they burn them in their cars with their children, at fifty four hundred degrees, using thermobaric grenades and beheaded their babies.
The battle between that which is good, and that which is evil is evident through out the ages since the beginning, as recorded with Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve and we also choosing to do that which is good or that which is evil and it is judged, as foretold in HIS recorded word. John 5 29.
This choice is the common denominator of all mankind.
You cannot know God without the word God. Without the Word of God any god would be an imaginary god. Something you or someone else made up. The Word of God tells you about the leaders of Good and evil that is evident and been known since the beginning of mankind.

List of some other evidence. Not a complete list as this is getting lenghty.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

God provides rewards to those obedient to the faith. These rewards of God are evidence of God and His Word as true too. The blessings include but not limited too, love, health, peace, strength, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, jobs and national security, and too many to mention. Point being rewards of God also give evidence to God. Especially when it came to winning wars. Just ask the victors!
Below are some additional considerations to HIS evidence.
2. Creation through Seed Planting. Promises made to Abraham and his Seed after him. Issac and his seed after him. Your creation was witnessed as you plant seeds too.
3. Changed lives "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17): Matt 7:7
4. Personal experiences and answered prayers
"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Visible things. (Jere 33:3)
5. Historical and archaeological evidence supporting biblical accounts. Many documentaries.
6. Personal relationship and communication with God through prayer and scripture.
7, My favorite the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is known and evident in all that have received Him.
God is not without evidence but has a lot of evidence. And our Faith is well grounded in the Evidence of God.
These evidences collectively demonstrate God's existence, visibility, and involvement in the world, from the creation of the universe to the transformation of individual lives through faith and prayer.

I pray this helps bring much insight and understanding of His Word, in Jesus name. Amen.
Thanks
 
Feb 28, 2020
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#17
you didn't really address my point -- let me put it more clearly:

the Bible is not the only religious text that contains (1) records of prophecy and claims about its fulfillment & (2) as-yet-unfulfilled prophecy about future events. in this aspect, what sets the Bible apart from the vedas, the koran, the b.o.m. etc?

simply saying that the koran & the b.o.m. are later texts than the Bible doesn't answer the question, and pointing out that the koran claims ishmael is the line of the promise while the Bible claims isaac is, doesn't address the point at all.

if "existence of prophecy about the future and records of ancient prophecy and corresponding ancient fulfillment of those prophesies" constitutes absolute proof that a text is from God, then the Bible isn't the only thing that fits the description. so there needs to be a stronger argument. even zoroasterism claims to have very old texts containing prophecy about the future and claiming to have had accurate predictions in the past, and right now in this very forum we've got some dude promoting some witch who claims to have mary telling her all about coming events ((https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/prophecies-from-luz-de-maria-from-jesus-christ-for-the-coming-years-2024-2033.213814/)). by your definitions this likely-demon-possessed woman would fit the bill too -- ignoring your argument about age; just because something is old doesn't make it true.

& afaik the Bible says nothing about specific american football games. lol. so that's purely imagination -- concrete examples are persuasive but fanciful hypotheticals are useless.
You're making a false assumption. I guess you didn't understand what was written Islam declares moses the greatest prophet and they declare Jesus a great prophet too. Now these prophets declared and recorded Gods Word, As God gave them, they are the hebrews, Israelites, Jews are the first hand witnesses. They have the recordings, the everlasting covenant, as told by Moses whom islam is agreed is the greatest prophet. As far as the prophecies in islam they are of moses and or of jesus. And if they differ, the text, and they do, then it is the hebrew recordings the first hand witnesses that walk with Moses that have the accurate recording the accurate prophesies
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#18
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" Isa 46:9-10

Isaiah 46:10
:)