FAITH ALONE: Paul Agrees With James.
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Yeah makes sense sort of creating our own version of Jesus and salvstion the words are different but it seems like there’s always a source a lot of times it’s about what they have heard about Jesus
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
It’s always been this
God tells man the truth
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
Then comes deception , sin and death
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:4-6
The gospel is the same Jesus told us all the truth that will save our souls and sent it to us all
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
But the enemy comes after that telling us lies “ the gospel isn’t for you , it doesn’t matter what Jesus said about it , there’s another different gospel for you just say grace your saved or go back to Moses law now or you can’t be saved ect ect
anything to get us away from the truth that will save us “ I saw another beast rise up from the earth having two horns as a lamb, but he spake as a dragon
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
It’s always been this
God tells man the truth
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
Then comes deception , sin and death
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:4-6
The gospel is the same Jesus told us all the truth that will save our souls and sent it to us all
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
But the enemy comes after that telling us lies “ the gospel isn’t for you , it doesn’t matter what Jesus said about it , there’s another different gospel for you just say grace your saved or go back to Moses law now or you can’t be saved ect ect
anything to get us away from the truth that will save us “ I saw another beast rise up from the earth having two horns as a lamb, but he spake as a dragon
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Do you know the term “ propitiation” ?
If I repent right now and never sin again I would still be lost because I have already sinned throughout my life so the shedding of the blood of the atonement God made for my sins is actually what justifies me repentance is only possible because of the source
“being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
Romans 3:24-26
repentance is needed for certain but he is the justifier of those who believe in Jesus through his stoning sacrifice and propitiation for our sins because he loves us
If I repent right now and never sin again I would still be lost because I have already sinned throughout my life so the shedding of the blood of the atonement God made for my sins is actually what justifies me repentance is only possible because of the source
“being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
Romans 3:24-26
repentance is needed for certain but he is the justifier of those who believe in Jesus through his stoning sacrifice and propitiation for our sins because he loves us
A few things
1. Faith does not lead to repentance, repentance (a change of mind) leads to faith
You will not trust God unless you first change your view of him.
2. The Holy Spirit is given because we repented, Not because we are baptized, If water baptism is a requirement, then we are saved by faith plus works. Not grace through faith.
3. Yes paul does agree,
1. We are saved by Grace though faith. But those who are saved WILL do works.
2. If we claim we have faith, but have zero works. it proves we had no faith to begin with (our faith is dead)
1. Faith does not lead to repentance, repentance (a change of mind) leads to faith
You will not trust God unless you first change your view of him.
2. The Holy Spirit is given because we repented, Not because we are baptized, If water baptism is a requirement, then we are saved by faith plus works. Not grace through faith.
3. Yes paul does agree,
1. We are saved by Grace though faith. But those who are saved WILL do works.
2. If we claim we have faith, but have zero works. it proves we had no faith to begin with (our faith is dead)
Consider this:
Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus....
.... 9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.
If a Christian isn't maturing, it's because they are resisting the Holy Spirit's work in them. That resisting can come from some causes, such as not trusting God or loving their sin more than God.
When I realized what the Holy Spirit's purpose was in our lives, I had to admit that I DID resist His work at the beginning. I didn't trust that He was powerful enough to do this to change me. But then God pointed this verse out to me:
James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
So I asked God to help me trust His Holy Spirit. God actually laid it on my heart to test the Holy Spirit, so I did. I decided to trust God and submit to the Holy Spirit to let Him do His work in me - and He DID! I was honestly so pleasantly shocked! And it was very quick! God proved to me that He is truly powerful to work in us to make us godly and obedient to Him even if we started out as deeply steeped in sin.
So I encourage everyone who is saved to start beginning to trust and submit to the Holy Spirit if you're not doing that already, not resisting His work in you. You WILL become more Christ-like and obedient to God!
🍔 <-- Actually a fish sandwich I will be making for lunch for my family today.
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But I was never talking about obeying the law in our own flesh. Why do you keep backtracking and talking about that?
I'm talking about trusting and abiding in the Holy Spirit - it is the Holy Spirit who does all the work of changing us so that we end up being Christlike and obedient to God. That's why works of the flesh don't save us - it is God and His work on the cross which saves and results in a godly and obedient life in us to the Lord.
You say that you try to share with people about a real and vital relationship with God but you're not ever talking about how to actually do that via the Holy Spirit. Why not post how the Holy Spirit worked in your life to bring your to Christlikeness and obedience to the God?
I'm addressing obedience to God on this forum because if someone mentions "obedience to the Lord", people get triggered and cry out that "it's the work of the flesh and you're trying to earn your salvation!" It's just crazy. Obedience to the Lord is actually a work of the Holy Spirit and not of the flesh.
It's also a good thing to encourage Christians to obey God, not to earn salvation, but to please God. That's part part of pursuing Him.
1 Timothy 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
🍔
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You addressed my post and ended by stating that some people were encouraging others to disobey. That couldn't be further from the truth in my case. Since you were addressing my post I assumed you were referring to me. So I answered and expressed where true obedience lies and how it actually works.
There are those here who give intellectual assent to the work of the Spirit in obedience, but add to it "our" part, as if God has given us the ability to obey apart from the active living of Christ in us. This is not real obedience. It may have an outward expression that resembles obedience, but does not have the requisite inward reality of true obedience. And this is what I was addressing.
There are those here who give intellectual assent to the work of the Spirit in obedience, but add to it "our" part, as if God has given us the ability to obey apart from the active living of Christ in us. This is not real obedience. It may have an outward expression that resembles obedience, but does not have the requisite inward reality of true obedience. And this is what I was addressing.
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op: faith alone? Paul agrees with James??
1) "By Grace Through faith..." (Ephesians 2:8 AV)
2) Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth:
James:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
Paul:
Plus Nothing, Further Confirmed!:
Final Confirmation:
Amen.
1) "By Grace Through faith..." (Ephesians 2:8 AV)
2) Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth:
James:
a) to the "twelve tribes of Israel" (James 1:1 AV)
b) "faith without works is dead..." (James 2:14-26 AV)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
Paul:
a) to the One Body Of Christ:
"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and
every one members one of another." (Rom 12:5 AV)
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond
or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
(1Co 12:12-13, 20, 25; Eph 2:16, 4:4 AV)
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which
also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful." (Col 3:15 AV)
b) "faith apart" from All the "works" of the law / covenants / prophecy
(for Israel) is Alive, For The One Body Of Christ, Under
"Grace Through faith":
Plus Nothing!:"...and That not of yourselves: It Is The Gift Of God: Not of
works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9 AV)
Plus Nothing, Confirmed!:"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According
To His Mercy He Saved us, By The Washing of Regeneration, and
Renewing of The Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5 AV)
Plus Nothing, Further Confirmed!:
"Who Hath Saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but According To His Own Purpose And Grace, Which Was
Given us In Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9 AV)
+Final Confirmation:
"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is
no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace:
otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6 AV)
Amen.
His GRACE is to All Men Everywhere. (also Acts 11:18) And without His Grace, there is no salvation to anyone.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Act 17:30
it is your FAITH which is evident by the works of Repentance which is demanded by God for salvation. Luk 13 3 Jesus was emphatic Luk 13 5
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Jesus.
It is your faith evident by works of repentance which is demanded. Works like baptism if you have time, zealous to good works gives your confirmation of your faith in HIS WORD, most call Jesus. that separates the good from the wicked under God's grace. "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Jn 5:29
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Act 17:30
it is your FAITH which is evident by the works of Repentance which is demanded by God for salvation. Luk 13 3 Jesus was emphatic Luk 13 5
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Jesus.
It is your faith evident by works of repentance which is demanded. Works like baptism if you have time, zealous to good works gives your confirmation of your faith in HIS WORD, most call Jesus. that separates the good from the wicked under God's grace. "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Jn 5:29
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James taught that faith without works is dead, and a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.
Paul said out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, works, charity is the greatest.
And love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and we are saved by grace through faith.
If we do not have love then faith does not apply and then grace does not apply.
And this love is not part time but all the time being led by the Spirit which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and show the ways of the Spirit.
We are saved by faith, and not by works, for that is all we can do when we confess Christ.
But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love to have faith apply in our life for love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
So works is a requirement a person has to do and cannot be neglected because we have to have works of love.
Charity is greater than faith which Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.
Which Paul is speaking when a person receives the Spirit.
Which James said if they do not have charity by pointing out caring for the needs of other then their faith is dead.
So Paul and James say the same thing, and Paul was speaking when a person does not have the Spirit when they first confess Christ that they are not saved by works, but by faith, and when they receive the Spirit which then they have to have works of the Spirit.
Paul said if anyone teaches that godliness is gain from such withdraw yourselves having food and clothing be content.
For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, which if they covet after money they have erred from the faith.
So Paul is saying if they do not have charity by caring about the needs of people by going by their wants moneywise then they lack love then they have erred from the faith for without love there is no faith.
Faith would have the proper perspective of God, and His Kingdom, and that being love.
John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
For love can only be valid if it is done in works for it does not help someone who is starving, or has a need, and you say hope you do well, but do not care about their need, so how is that love.
Works is greater than faith for that is the only way we can show love after we receive the Spirit for it has to be done in action.
Everything stems from love because love is greater than faith, and hope.
You hear people say we are saved by faith alone, and they carry that attitude throughout their entire Christian life neglecting the love part.
For you can see many of their lifestyles where they love money, and material things, going by their wants which is not love so them saying all they need is faith is invalid.
Paul said out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, works, charity is the greatest.
And love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and we are saved by grace through faith.
If we do not have love then faith does not apply and then grace does not apply.
And this love is not part time but all the time being led by the Spirit which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and show the ways of the Spirit.
We are saved by faith, and not by works, for that is all we can do when we confess Christ.
But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love to have faith apply in our life for love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
So works is a requirement a person has to do and cannot be neglected because we have to have works of love.
Charity is greater than faith which Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.
Which Paul is speaking when a person receives the Spirit.
Which James said if they do not have charity by pointing out caring for the needs of other then their faith is dead.
So Paul and James say the same thing, and Paul was speaking when a person does not have the Spirit when they first confess Christ that they are not saved by works, but by faith, and when they receive the Spirit which then they have to have works of the Spirit.
Paul said if anyone teaches that godliness is gain from such withdraw yourselves having food and clothing be content.
For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, which if they covet after money they have erred from the faith.
So Paul is saying if they do not have charity by caring about the needs of people by going by their wants moneywise then they lack love then they have erred from the faith for without love there is no faith.
Faith would have the proper perspective of God, and His Kingdom, and that being love.
John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
For love can only be valid if it is done in works for it does not help someone who is starving, or has a need, and you say hope you do well, but do not care about their need, so how is that love.
Works is greater than faith for that is the only way we can show love after we receive the Spirit for it has to be done in action.
Everything stems from love because love is greater than faith, and hope.
You hear people say we are saved by faith alone, and they carry that attitude throughout their entire Christian life neglecting the love part.
For you can see many of their lifestyles where they love money, and material things, going by their wants which is not love so them saying all they need is faith is invalid.
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV
John 18:37 KJV
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV
I guess it depends what is meant by "daily service"? And I guess it depends how you define salvation.
To me, salvation is being saved from sin - and to me it seems that thus daily living in victory over sin is very much a part of and directly connected to being saved. If I would be daily living in sin, I would not be saved from sin.
To me, salvation is being saved from sin - and to me it seems that thus daily living in victory over sin is very much a part of and directly connected to being saved. If I would be daily living in sin, I would not be saved from sin.
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