Christ's Blood redeemed every human being, including the world. Col 1:20. Baptism has nothing to do with what Christ did for the world. So, I assume by your implication that everyone would be saved without baptism?
faith alone?
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E
elf3
Guest
I never said EVERYONE would be saved. Only those who have faith in Christ for their salvation will be saved. Baptized or unbaptized it's the faith in the blood of Christ that saves..not the water.
E
elf3
Guest
So answer the question. Do you believe in the Bible for truth or the "church" for truth?
Christ and what He has preserved. His Body over which He is the Head, IS THE CHURCH. The Church is the ground and pillar of Truth.
[h=1]Emanuela Orlandi, 15, Killed To Cover Up Vatican 'Sex Parties,' Claims Father Gabriele Amorth[/h]By Michael Billera @http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelBillera on May 23 2012 10:39 AM
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Father Gabriele Amorth, who was appointed by Pope John Paul II as the chief exorcist of the Vatican, claims that the a teenage girl who went missing in the 80s, Emanuela Orlandi, was murdered as part of underground Vatican sex parties with ties to the organized crime and foreign embassies.
Amorth said that in the summer of 1983, 15-year-old Orlandi was snatched from the streets of Rome and mysteriously vanished without a trace. He said she was forced to perform in sex parties.
This was a crime with a sexual motive, said Amorth, reported the Telegraph. Parties were organized, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls. The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle.
For three decades, the fate of Orlandi has consumed Italian police investigators. In an effort to solve the cold case, police acted on an anonymous tip to a popular television show in which a supposed informant claimed Orlandi could be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb.
Last week, Italian authorities and forensic experts opened the tomb of mobster Enrico De Pedis's in their hunt for Orlandi's body. Bones not belonging to De Pedis were discovered in the crypt. Analysis is being done to determine if the bones belong to Orlandi.
De Pedis was a powerful and charismatic mobster who was ran a gang known as the Banda della Magliana. He was murdered at the age of 38 by members of his own crew after they had an internal dispute, reported the Sun.
Theories surrounding the missing Orlandi suggested that she was taken by De Pedis who wanted to put pressure on the Vatican to recover money that they were owed, reported the Sydney Morning Herald.
Another theory is that she was taken to be used as a bargaining chip in order to release Mehmet ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II, reportedly on orders from the KGB.
However, Father Amorth rejected these claims. Amorth said he is firm on his theory that the girl was abused and killed as that this was part all part of the conspiracy in the Vatican to cover up the sex parties.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body, he said, reported the Daily Mail. Also involved is diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.
The Vatican has yet to comment on Father Amorth's claims. However, they did say they have always co-operated with investigation into Emanuela Orlandi's murder.
The problem with Cassian is he thinks the CHURCH, the Body of Christ, is "his" church, the "Orthodox" church, (just like Roman Catholics believe it's the Roman Catholic church) so he believes whatever "his" church tells him that the Bible says (just like Roman Catholics do as well). Then both churches use fallible writings of men (who they assume are teaching exactly what the Apostles taught) to back up their doctrine. Very dangerous!
E
elf3
Guest
The problem with Cassian is he thinks the CHURCH, the Body of Christ, is "his" church, the "Orthodox" church, (just like Roman Catholics believe it's the Roman Catholic church) so he believes whatever "his" church tells him that the Bible says (just like Roman Catholics do as well). Then both churches use fallible writings of men (who they assume are teaching exactly what the Apostles taught) to back up their doctrine. Very dangerous!
Yep and it is dangerous. And if you notice he won't directly answer a the question presented to him.
Do you have trouble understanding scripture?
Christ is the Truth. Where does it say that scripture is the Truth? Where does scripture say that man is the pillar and foundation of Truth, or the Bible?
So, if the Bible is the Truth, which bible do you believe, your bible, or Smiths bible, or Hubbard's, Calvin's bible, Eddy's bible? Which one has Truth? Which Bible's Truth has not changed?
why is faith in the Blood so important when unbelievers have been redeemed by the same blood?
and how does this relate to what I stated?Originally Posted by Cassian
Christ and what He has preserved. His Body over which He is the Head, IS THE CHURCH. The Church is the ground and pillar of Truth.
Emanuela Orlandi, 15, Killed To Cover Up Vatican 'Sex Parties,' Claims Father Gabriele Amorth
By Michael Billera @http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelBillera on May 23 2012 10:39 AM
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Father Gabriele Amorth, who was appointed by Pope John Paul II as the chief exorcist of the Vatican, claims that the a teenage girl who went missing in the 80s, Emanuela Orlandi, was murdered as part of underground Vatican sex parties with ties to the organized crime and foreign embassies.
Amorth said that in the summer of 1983, 15-year-old Orlandi was snatched from the streets of Rome and mysteriously vanished without a trace. He said she was forced to perform in sex parties.
This was a crime with a sexual motive, said Amorth, reported the Telegraph. Parties were organized, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls. The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle.
For three decades, the fate of Orlandi has consumed Italian police investigators. In an effort to solve the cold case, police acted on an anonymous tip to a popular television show in which a supposed informant claimed Orlandi could be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb.
Last week, Italian authorities and forensic experts opened the tomb of mobster Enrico De Pedis's in their hunt for Orlandi's body. Bones not belonging to De Pedis were discovered in the crypt. Analysis is being done to determine if the bones belong to Orlandi.
De Pedis was a powerful and charismatic mobster who was ran a gang known as the Banda della Magliana. He was murdered at the age of 38 by members of his own crew after they had an internal dispute, reported the Sun.
Theories surrounding the missing Orlandi suggested that she was taken by De Pedis who wanted to put pressure on the Vatican to recover money that they were owed, reported the Sydney Morning Herald.
Another theory is that she was taken to be used as a bargaining chip in order to release Mehmet ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II, reportedly on orders from the KGB.
However, Father Amorth rejected these claims. Amorth said he is firm on his theory that the girl was abused and killed as that this was part all part of the conspiracy in the Vatican to cover up the sex parties.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body, he said, reported the Daily Mail. Also involved is diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.
The Vatican has yet to comment on Father Amorth's claims. However, they did say they have always co-operated with investigation into Emanuela Orlandi's murder.
E
elf3
Guest
2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."
Do you have trouble understanding and answering a question? Where does our "knowledge" of God come from? Does it come from the church or the Bible which is the Word of God?
All you do is dance around this question without actually answering.
Can you prove it is not? I don't see any evidence just assertions.The problem with Cassian is he thinks the CHURCH, the Body of Christ, is "his" church, the "Orthodox" church, (just like Roman Catholics believe it's the Roman Catholic church) so he believes whatever "his" church tells him that the Bible says (just like Roman Catholics do as well). Then both churches use fallible writings of men (who they assume are teaching exactly what the Apostles taught) to back up their doctrine. Very dangerous!
It actually quite ironic. You castigate falsely Church Fathers for interpreting the text but yet you interpret it and it becomes gospel truth. You couldn't prove what you believe to be the truth if your life depended on it. You have hundreds of valid options beginning with Luther and possibly ending at the moment with the Church of the Last Testament of Vissorion 1991.
Yet the Gospel of Christ has never changed. Man has been unable to impose his innovations upon the Gospel given Once in the beginning.
I'm still waiting for that man made evidence of change, which doctrine, and date?
The tree seen by it fruit.
If the Rcc is the only agent of the word of God, the real body of Christ, then why rape and killing a girl like the fruit of the devil?
E
elf3
Guest
Again you refuse to answer. Is the Bible or your "church" the final authority on truth?
but which meaning of that scripture are you using? I'm using the Original meaning as it was given.
Are you teaching your interpretation of a text? Or Luther's or Calvin's, or Hubbard's.
I have given you the scriptural answer. You are so void of understanding scripture that you missed it. But then, you don't really follow what it has always meant, you have some personal interpretation that you are teaching claiming it is scriptural, yet you cannot differentiate from the Mormons, or Jehovah Witnesses, or even Calvin and Luther who started the mess you are bogged down with.
I am a member of that Church Christ established here on earth. The one scripture speaks of. So, yes, Christ's Church is the final authority on Truth. Why would you think it differently? No place does it say the Bible is, or man.
Why would Christ or the Holy Spirit relinquish their authority to give it to man or just a Book?
Christ is the Word.
God is the final authority on Himself.
God reveals Himself through Christ.
Therefore, the Word is the final authority on what is revealed about God.
The Word says we are saved by Grace through Faith.
The Word says we are to gather with other Believers.
Saved through faith,
But we are trained, encouraged, empowered, and made useful, in and though the Church.
The Church does not save us or keep us saved,
because WE ARE THE CHURCH from the moment we are saved.
God is the final authority on Himself.
God reveals Himself through Christ.
Therefore, the Word is the final authority on what is revealed about God.
The Word says we are saved by Grace through Faith.
The Word says we are to gather with other Believers.
Saved through faith,
But we are trained, encouraged, empowered, and made useful, in and though the Church.
The Church does not save us or keep us saved,
because WE ARE THE CHURCH from the moment we are saved.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The word does not say Catholic though.
The church the bible speaks of is the body of believers known as Christians.
The words from our Lord Jesus are the final authority. Anybody who thinks their church denomination they belong to, or that a man like the pope has the right to override His words and teaching then you have been brought into a falsehood.
The word does say we are saved by grace through faith, the word also says that faith without works is a dead faith.
Lord Jesus says if you love Me you will keep my commandments, and why do you call Me Lord if you don't do as I say.
If Jesus is your Lord and Savior you would do as He said.
He said you have to repent of sins or parish, He said confess Him before others and He will confess you before the Father; If you deny Him before others He will deny you, He commanded baptism in Mark 16 and Matthew 28, and He said if refuse to help others in need then you have refused Him.
In loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind you will do the these things and thus be living by the greatest commandment. Then in turn you will also do the second command, to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus even stated you will also love your enemies if you follow Him, because this He also taught.
The church the bible speaks of is the body of believers known as Christians.
The words from our Lord Jesus are the final authority. Anybody who thinks their church denomination they belong to, or that a man like the pope has the right to override His words and teaching then you have been brought into a falsehood.
The word does say we are saved by grace through faith, the word also says that faith without works is a dead faith.
Lord Jesus says if you love Me you will keep my commandments, and why do you call Me Lord if you don't do as I say.
If Jesus is your Lord and Savior you would do as He said.
He said you have to repent of sins or parish, He said confess Him before others and He will confess you before the Father; If you deny Him before others He will deny you, He commanded baptism in Mark 16 and Matthew 28, and He said if refuse to help others in need then you have refused Him.
In loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind you will do the these things and thus be living by the greatest commandment. Then in turn you will also do the second command, to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus even stated you will also love your enemies if you follow Him, because this He also taught.
E
elf3
Guest
Well let's see here...the Bible is the very Word of God written by man given by God.
Jesus said to the Father, "your word is truth" John 17:17
The psalmist declared, "your word is truth" Psalm 119:160
Proverbs assures us that "every word of God proves true" Proverbs 30:5
2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is God-breathed"
So since you state "Christ's church is the final authority on truth" you have put the Church ahead of God's Word thus making "man" the authority of truth not God. So according to you, you rely on the word of man for truth so you might as well not read the Bible but trust man and not God.