Faith Alone?

[Hoffco]

Romans ch.10 is very deep; Please review what I said in post #118, and see if God would speak to your heart. The natural means are used by God; But, it is His, GOD'S power that saves the sinner.

 

[Hoffco]

WOW, this is really bad, I can not make a post, every attempt is blocked, am I locked?

 

[Hoffco]

OK, thank you LORD.! It seems that you all have abandoned this thread. Please do some serious soul searching as to you methods of studying the Scripture. Are you really trying to get to the real message God has written in the passages; Or, are you content to just skim the surface and give a trite devotional . Contextual studies take hard work.!

 

[Yet]

Faith alone redeems the soul. Faith plus anything cancels redemption. Works are a result of our redemption.

 

[Hoffco]

Let me get you straight, God sits idle, helpless to save sinners until the sinner give God the ok. So God violated His own principle when He powerfully knocked Saul off his horse and blinded him and spoke to his heart The conversion of Saul by God is a visual of what God does to every sinner He saves. Our faith is a GIFT from God that God places in our hearts before we are able to commit our lives, in faith, to Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! Faith without corresponding actions is dead! The actions are a
result" of our faith.

For example..when we heard of the gospel of Christ...faith comes by hearing...we "said with our mouth" Jesus you are my Lord ...I believe you were raised from the dead! I receive you! I believe in you!...that is your "work" for your faith.

True faith is accompanied with works, always!

The big question is what type of work accompanies true faith? Abraham had faith and the work of his faith was to kill his only begotten son, Issac.

Rehab believed and the work of her faith was to hide the spies and help them escape.

So a work of faith is an action that proves your faith is more than simple lip service. Yet we are saved by faith in Christ alone.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen...It is by grace that we are saved through faith...we hear of the gospel of the grace of Christ..the gospel does not demand faith..it supplies it!!

Faith alone redeems the soul. Faith plus anything cancels redemption. Works are a result of our redemption.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

When we are given examples of faith in scripture, it also talks of how faith is exercised.

Abel offered an acceptable sacrifice by faith.
Enoch was translated by faith.
Noah prepared the ark by faith.
Abraham went into a strange land by faith.
Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau prophetically by faith.
Jacob blessed the sons of Joseph prophetically by faith.
Joseph prophesied of Israel’s departure from Egypt by faith.
Moses was hid as a baby by faith.
Moses kept the Passover by faith.
The Red Sea parted by faith.
The walls of Jericho fell by faith.
Rehab, the harlot, saved herself and her family by faith.
Gideon delivered Israel from the Midianites by faith.
Daniel stopped the mouths of lions by faith.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego quenched the violence of fire by faith.

When scripture was written in Hebrew so ancient it was in pictograph, the picture of faith was of an arm driving a nail in a wall. It was doing based on something as solid as a wall. We are told faith without works in dead.

Yet, I never hear of anyone talk about faith and doing together. I have only heard that it is faith alone. This would say that faith is to be applied to what we do in our life, that faith is to be used as the root of our actions.

There are lots of people who understand it's both faith and works. The largest Christian denomination on the planet are the Roman Catholics and they teach faith and works. That's over a billion right there.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There are lots of people who understand it's both faith and works. The largest Christian denomination on the planet are the Roman Catholics and they teach faith and works. That's over a billion right there.

If the institution of Roman Catholicism is of Christ, then I have some swamp land to sell you here in Arizona. Just a cursory view of the beliefs, practices and rituals of the RCC would immediately rule her out as being the Church of Christ! She is nothing but paganism wearing Christian clothing. However, God has people who are within her and he is calling them to come out of her and will be doing so during the great tribulation period as well.

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." (Rom.10:9-10)

"Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the One he has sent.' ” (John 6:28)

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph.2:8-9)"

A person is saved by faith and faith alone apart from works. Works come after one believes in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God purifies the believers heart by faith. Works that are done by believers thereafter are not to obtain or maintain salvation, but to glorify God. No one can be saved by performing works. Anyone who is counting on their own efforts along side Christ's sacrifice will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As long as this subject continues to come up, I will continue to proclaim the truth of God's word.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

If the institution of Roman Catholicism is of Christ, then I have some swamp land to sell you here in Arizona. Just a cursory view of the beliefs, practices and rituals of the RCC would immediately rule her out as being the Church of Christ! She is nothing but paganism wearing Christian clothing. However, God has people who are within her and he is calling them to come out of her and will be doing so during the great tribulation period as well.

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." (Rom.10:9-10)

"Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the One he has sent.' ” (John 6:28)

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph.2:8-9)"

A person is saved by faith and faith alone apart from works. Works come after one believes in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God purifies the believers heart by faith. Works that are done by believers thereafter are not to obtain or maintain salvation, but to glorify God. No one can be saved by performing works. Anyone who is counting on their own efforts along side Christ's sacrifice will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As long as this subject continues to come up, I will continue to proclaim the truth of God's word.

Anti Catholics are the embarrassment of non Catholic Christendom
Enjoy your bigotry

 

[Ahwatukee]

Anti Catholics are the embarrassment of non Catholic Christendom
Enjoy your bigotry

Don't confuse bigotry with contending for the truth of God's word and discernment of false teachings my friend, which we called to do. Also, Take notice that I did not attack any people, but only the institution of the RCC.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think the confusion comes in when we think "works" as going to mass, saying a rosary, doing pentance, , praying a certain way, confessing to a priest to have sins forgiven ..etc

it is not just the RCC that does this..us protestant have our own "works" that can replace grace....going to church, our "quiet time", reading the bible, working around the church, volunteering ..etc All good things but can be viewed with a religious mindset.

Works are corresponding actions to our faith. We believe, therefore we speak.. Speaking is a corresponding action as well as "receiving the messengers as Rahab did " to add "life" to what she believed.

"Works" do not produce faith and are not necessarily a proof of faith on their own merit - but real faith will have some kind of corresponding works to it to bring that faith to life.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

I think the confusion comes in when we think "works" as going to mass, saying a rosary, doing pentance, , praying a certain way, confessing to a priest to have sins forgiven ..etc

it is not just the RCC that does this..us protestant have our own "works" that can replace grace....going to church, our "quiet time", reading the bible, working around the church, volunteering ..etc All good things but can be viewed with a religious mindset.

Works are corresponding actions to our faith. We believe, therefore we speak.. <--I don't know if I'd consider speaking to be a work Speaking is a corresponding action as well as "receiving the messengers as Rahab did " to add "life" to what she believed.

"Works" do not produce faith and are not necessarily a proof of faith on their own merit - but real faith will have some kind of corresponding works to it to bring that faith to life.

I've yet to meet a Christian (Catholic, Protestant or otherwise) who thinks works replace grace. Or one who says that works produce faith, or that they are proof of faith.

Honestly, most of the arguments about works seem to be non-issue in real world Christianity.

 

[Grace777x70]

Speaking is a corresponding action.. faith speaks!..the speaking is the "works"..if you will

There are tons of people that add to the gospel..like..keep the 10 commandments..go to church..etc

It's not in the "replacing of grace"..it's in the adding of things you need to do that can disqualify people from grace.

good works are a product of the life of Christ in us!...but not all good works are necessarily born from God.

Think about when the Lord asid.."Lord, Lord..did we not do all these great things in Your name?"

These people had the very same good works as the disciples. There is a vast difference between the origin of the good works. That's why when we go through the fire...the fire will reveal the works and what was of Christ and His life flowing from us will be the only thing remaining....

I've yet to meet a Christian (Catholic, Protestant or otherwise) who thinks works replace grace. Or one who says that works produce faith, or that they are proof of faith.

Honestly, most of the arguments about works seem to be non-issue in real world Christianity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've yet to meet a Christian (Catholic, Protestant or otherwise) who thinks works replace grace. Or one who says that works produce faith, or that they are proof of faith.

Honestly, most of the arguments about works seem to be non-issue in real world Christianity.

you do not listen very hard.

Anyone who claims we are saved by grace, but this grace is perfected in works, teaches works replaces grace.

whether they admit it or not does not matter.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

you do not listen very hard.

Anyone who claims we are saved by grace, but this grace is perfected in works<--Maybe you should lecture that point to someone who actually said grace is perfected in works.teaches works replaces grace.

whether they admit it or not does not matter.

It would help you a lot apply this stuff to people who have made the claims you're talking about.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Speaking is a corresponding action.. faith speaks!..the speaking is the "works"..if you will

There are tons of people that add to the gospel..like..keep the 10 commandments..go to church..etc

It's not in the "replacing of grace"..it's in the adding of things you need to do that can disqualify people from grace.

good works are a product of the life of Christ in us!...but not all good works are necessarily born from God.

Think about when the Lord asid.."Lord, Lord..did we not do all these great things in Your name?"

These people had the very same good works as the disciples. There is a vast difference between the origin of the good works. That's why when we go through the fire...the fire will reveal the works and what was of Christ and His life flowing from us will be the only thing remaining....

Except when Christ was asked how to attain eternal life he said to do good works and keep the commandments. Faith had already been displayed just by the man asking Christ in the first place. So faith was established first and from there Christ pointed him to the commandments and works.

In my experience the folks who believe in good works know those works don't save them.

But for some reason, the people who argue against works keep acting as if it's uncommon knowledge, as if all these good works believers think they really will get into heaven because of works. Maybe it's because they really need to see themselves as smarter or as a teacher of others for some reason. I don't know. I sometimes think the folks who argue against works have just recently discovered themselves that they don't get into heaven by works and are now just projecting their earlier ignorance onto everyone else.

 

[Grace777x70]

If we could do good works and keep the commandments we would have no need of Christ's grace.

What scripture do you see our Lord telling us to "go good works and keep the commandments" to attain eternal life?

This seems to be against the gospel of the grace of Christ..but maybe I'm missing something here...

Except when Christ was asked how to attain eternal life he said to do good works and keep the commandments. Faith had already been displayed just by the man asking Christ in the first place. So faith was established first and from there Christ pointed him to the commandments and works.

In my experience the folks who believe in good works know those works don't save them.

But for some reason, the people who argue against works keep acting as if it's uncommon knowledge, as if all these good works believers think they really will get into heaven because of works. Maybe it's because they really need to see themselves as smarter or as a teacher of others for some reason. I don't know. I sometimes think the folks who argue against works have just recently discovered themselves that they don't get into heaven by works and are now just projecting their earlier ignorance onto everyone else.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

If we could do good works and keep the commandments we would have no need of Christ's grace <<---This is exactly what I was talking about. It's not the believers in good works who I hear saying this stuff.

What scripture do you see our Lord telling us to "go good works and keep the commandments" to attain eternal life?

This seems to be against the gospel of the grace of Christ..but maybe I'm missing something here...

How come I cannot get a Catholic who believes in good works to tell me:

If we could do good works and keep the commandments we would have no need of Christ's grace

Seriously, you guys are the ones saying this stuff and then projecting it onto others. You guys need to OWN those kind of statements because you're the ones saying it.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The above shows faith because he comes to Christ for the answer to eternal life
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.<<Says to keep the commandments, as an answer to having eternal life.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself <<<More commandments...yes I know the last one was not part of the 10
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, <<--Works and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ahhhh..gotcha.

Ok....This is very common...I thought you were going to bring this up

Jesus was speaking to the rich young ruler and Jesus gave him the law because he said.."what must I do".. to inherit eternal life. Jesus knowing our hearts gave the ruler the law because he was basing his self-righteousness on what he does. We know that one purpose of the law was to bring us to Christ. To reveal sin so that we would know we needed a Savior.

This ruler had broken the very first commandment. Jesus revealed that by telling him to sell everything he had. Jesus revealed that the rulers treasure was really his god.

We know that to inherit eternal life is to believe on Jesus who the Father sent.

If we were to keep the commandments for eternal life - none of us would make it.

If we were to obey all of Jesus's commandments then let's see how we are doing?

Jesus also said :

"If your hand causes you to steal..cut it off."...I still have my hands..I didn't obey that one...

" If your eye cause you to lust..pluck it out." I didn't obey that one either

"be perfect.as your Father is perfect"...how are we doing with that one?..not good

Jesus was the greatest law preacher - to those who were trying to life by their own good works...He gave them Moses 2.0 version to reveal they need a Savior

Jesus was the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed a Savior and that they couldn't keep the commandments....He gave them grace.

We always need to rightly divide the word of God.

Don't take someone else's medicine.

How come I cannot get a Catholic who believes in good works to tell me:

Seriously, you guys are the ones saying this stuff and then projecting it onto others. You guys need to OWN those kind of statements because you're the ones saying it.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The above shows faith because he comes to Christ for the answer to eternal life
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.<<Says to keep the commandments, as an answer to having eternal life.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself <<<More commandments...yes I know the last one was not part of the 10
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, <<--Works and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.