Faith to believe on Christ !
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Coming to Christ is doing good, and the natural man can do no good. Also please address all the points made in post 34.
It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent.
These words of Christ should show you you are mistaken.
lets see if you can admit it.
ie.. coming to Christ is not doing good. It is Christ working in us!
You tell us, have you studied that ?Why was Cain’s offering rejected?
What do you mean by that ?It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent.
You tell us, have you studied that ?
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The above passages alone completely demolish your dogma of salvation without faith. There is no salvation apart from faith in Jesus.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
What do you mean by that ?
It means exactly what Jesus said in John 6.
It is not our good work that we come to him, It is Gods work..
so we can't say it is a good deed,
It means exactly what Jesus said in John 6.
It is not our good work that we come to him, It is Gods work..
so we can't say it is a good deed,
So if its God's Work, and God is all powerful, then why don't all people whom God works in come to Faith ? If its God's Work ?
starfield
Please show where I posted anything about salvation without faith or admit that you are being deceitful and misrepresenting what I have posted.
The above passages alone completely demolish your dogma of salvation without faith.
Please show where I posted anything about salvation without faith or admit that you are being deceitful and misrepresenting what I have posted.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So if its God's Work, and God is all powerful, then why don't all people whom God works in come to Faith ? If its God's Work ?
Because God will not force anyone to do HIS will.
Who did the work of salvation on the cross?
Who did the work of convicting us of sin righteousness and judgment?
Who did the work we place our faith in?
I can go on and on and on.
If we have to do work, we can take credit.. (boast) not of works, lest ANYONE should boast..
eternal-grateful
So then , even though its God's work that one believes, some do not believe because God does not force them to do His Will. Yes or No. Is that what you mean ?
Because God will not force anyone to do HIS will.
So then , even though its God's work that one believes, some do not believe because God does not force them to do His Will. Yes or No. Is that what you mean ?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
eternal-grateful
So then , even though its God's work that one believes, some do not believe because God does not force them to do His Will. Yes or No. Is that what you mean ?
It means if I do something to help you receive something (like give you a gift) you have the right to reject my work (gift)
God did the work.. it is his gift he is offering, it is not work to recieve it. Thats why God gets ALL the credit. we get zero! all we do is say yes! (in faith. not just mere belief)
eternal grate
Yes, you receiving it and someone else not receiving it, gives you the credit, not God. Receiving something is your effort, your work. What you did [by receiving] is what saved you. That's Salvation by your works.
God did the work.. it is his gift he is offering, it is not work to recieve it.
Yes, you receiving it and someone else not receiving it, gives you the credit, not God. Receiving something is your effort, your work. What you did [by receiving] is what saved you. That's Salvation by your works.
starfield
Please show where I posted anything about salvation without faith or admit that you are being deceitful and misrepresenting what I have posted.
You claim that God must save man BEFORE he can repent and believe because the natural man is unable to have faith, hence the premise of this thread. You have it backwards. The bible says...
Romans 10:9-10
9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
It is...
Faith/repentance -----> salvation
NOT
Salvation -----> faith/repentance
star
Are you going to show where I posted that man can have salvation without faith ? If not admit your deceitfulness.
You claim that God must save man BEFORE he can repent
Are you going to show where I posted that man can have salvation without faith ? If not admit your deceitfulness.
Re: Faith in Christ for Salvation cont
You claim that repentance and faith are mere consequences of salvation rather than prerequisites as the Apostles preached. I have seen this in most of your posts.
Nineveh repented BEFORE God granted mercy, not after. The prodigal son repented BEFORE his father received him. Prov 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Confession and forsaking of sins has to occur BEFORE mercy is granted.
Here you go....Are you going to show where I posted that man can have salvation without faith ? If not admit your deceitfulness.
The bible is clear that one must repent and believe to be saved (Mark 1:15). So how is faith developed? "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). The convicting work of the Holy Spirit is essential for salvation. Through the gospel message the sinner becomes aware of their wretchedness and need of the Saviour so that they can repent and believe.
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, so they cannot have Faith Heb 11:6
They must be first born again, born anew r of the Spirit before they can have Faith.
Jn 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
You claim that repentance and faith are mere consequences of salvation rather than prerequisites as the Apostles preached. I have seen this in most of your posts.
Nineveh repented BEFORE God granted mercy, not after. The prodigal son repented BEFORE his father received him. Prov 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Confession and forsaking of sins has to occur BEFORE mercy is granted.
star
I read all that. However where is my quote saying:
You claim that repentance and faith are mere consequences of salvation rather than prerequisites as the Apostles preached. I have seen this in most of your posts.
I read all that. However where is my quote saying:
that man can have salvation without faith ?
Chosen to believe, not believe to be Chosen cont
All them of God's Elect shall obtain like precious Faith 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
This verse lets us know unquestionably that Faith is a Salvation Blessing and not something man has by nature !
And it is also termed the Faith of God's Elect, for its from God's Elect [Christ Isa 42:1] to God's Elect [ Those given to Him or Chosen in Him Eph 1:4]
It is peculiar only to them, so the Elect only obtain this precious faith, and the rest of mankind is blinded Rom 11:7
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
The Election obtained it by Faith that was given ! Paul said the blinded ones sought it not by Faith Rom 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
They were the Election !
The rest Paul writes were blinded Rom 11:7; And this being blinded prevents one from believing the Gospel of Christ 2 Cor 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So it is upon the evidence of one believing that Paul could reasonably conclude that the Thessalonians were of the Election of Grace 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
Yes, their receiving or believing the Gospel in much affliction convinced Paul of their Election of God !31
All them of God's Elect shall obtain like precious Faith 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
This verse lets us know unquestionably that Faith is a Salvation Blessing and not something man has by nature !
And it is also termed the Faith of God's Elect, for its from God's Elect [Christ Isa 42:1] to God's Elect [ Those given to Him or Chosen in Him Eph 1:4]
It is peculiar only to them, so the Elect only obtain this precious faith, and the rest of mankind is blinded Rom 11:7
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
The Election obtained it by Faith that was given ! Paul said the blinded ones sought it not by Faith Rom 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
They were the Election !
The rest Paul writes were blinded Rom 11:7; And this being blinded prevents one from believing the Gospel of Christ 2 Cor 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So it is upon the evidence of one believing that Paul could reasonably conclude that the Thessalonians were of the Election of Grace 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
Yes, their receiving or believing the Gospel in much affliction convinced Paul of their Election of God !31
Something to know !
Something to know ! It is impossible for any sinner that Christ died for, to live and die an unbeliever. For such case would overthrow the purpose of God giving His Son Jn 3:16, and would have defeated the Purpose of His Saving Death. One scripture that confirms this Truth is the latter part of Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The Just SHALL live by Faith !
The whole Truth of this stated assertion, hinges upon the word SHALL, a Promise of God's Word depending upon His Ability to perform it. Just like this statement Rom 4:20-21
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
The promise being Gen 18:10-14
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
This is to Illustrate that God's Shall's are contingent upon His Ability to perform it.
So, that the Just shall live by Faith is of that same quality of promise !
Now who are the Just ? Its all whom Christ, by His Obedience made Righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word Righteous here is the same word Just in Rom 1:17b the greek word dikaios.
So the conclusion is That all for whom Christ died [His Obedience] shall be made to live by Faith ! This is brought about by God's Ability !32
Something to know ! It is impossible for any sinner that Christ died for, to live and die an unbeliever. For such case would overthrow the purpose of God giving His Son Jn 3:16, and would have defeated the Purpose of His Saving Death. One scripture that confirms this Truth is the latter part of Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The Just SHALL live by Faith !
The whole Truth of this stated assertion, hinges upon the word SHALL, a Promise of God's Word depending upon His Ability to perform it. Just like this statement Rom 4:20-21
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
The promise being Gen 18:10-14
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
This is to Illustrate that God's Shall's are contingent upon His Ability to perform it.
So, that the Just shall live by Faith is of that same quality of promise !
Now who are the Just ? Its all whom Christ, by His Obedience made Righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word Righteous here is the same word Just in Rom 1:17b the greek word dikaios.
So the conclusion is That all for whom Christ died [His Obedience] shall be made to live by Faith ! This is brought about by God's Ability !32
Faith and Repentance Two sides of same coin !
That Repentance [a change of mind] and Faith [believing the Truth as it is revealed or made known] are of the same Essence / Substance, for this is shown here 2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
That is repentance from God is unto discerning and acknowledging the Truth or belief of the Truth or Faith in it ! See Eph 1:13
Paul writes in Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Faith acknowledges God's Truth, which is what 2 Tim 2:25 means !
So in the Evangelical sense, this Repentance in Lk 24:47; Acts 5:31,11:18,17:30,20:21 is unto Faith or belief or acknowledgment of the Truth !
And Both must come from God 2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Neither Faith or Repentance comes from within the Natural man as false teachers teach !33
That Repentance [a change of mind] and Faith [believing the Truth as it is revealed or made known] are of the same Essence / Substance, for this is shown here 2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
That is repentance from God is unto discerning and acknowledging the Truth or belief of the Truth or Faith in it ! See Eph 1:13
Paul writes in Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Faith acknowledges God's Truth, which is what 2 Tim 2:25 means !
So in the Evangelical sense, this Repentance in Lk 24:47; Acts 5:31,11:18,17:30,20:21 is unto Faith or belief or acknowledgment of the Truth !
And Both must come from God 2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Neither Faith or Repentance comes from within the Natural man as false teachers teach !33
Faith and Hope are of the same Essence !
That Faith and Hope are of the same Essence or Substance, hope being born out of Faith, the Expectation of what Faith Reveals and causes Trust, well this is seen here 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Now notice how this purpose [of faith and hope in God] follows the fact of God's raising Christ from the dead [ His Resurrection See Vs 3] God gave Him Glory, so that they [to whom Peter was writing] would have Faith and Hope in God. This is the same referred to earlier in Vs 3 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Being begotten again unto a Lively Hope by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, so a Believers Faith and Hope is directly connected to and resultive of Christ's Resurrection from the Dead and His Glory.
Paul said in Eph 1:12
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In other words, its to the Praise of Christ's Glory whenever one Trust's in Him for Salvation34
That Faith and Hope are of the same Essence or Substance, hope being born out of Faith, the Expectation of what Faith Reveals and causes Trust, well this is seen here 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Now notice how this purpose [of faith and hope in God] follows the fact of God's raising Christ from the dead [ His Resurrection See Vs 3] God gave Him Glory, so that they [to whom Peter was writing] would have Faith and Hope in God. This is the same referred to earlier in Vs 3 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Being begotten again unto a Lively Hope by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, so a Believers Faith and Hope is directly connected to and resultive of Christ's Resurrection from the Dead and His Glory.
Paul said in Eph 1:12
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In other words, its to the Praise of Christ's Glory whenever one Trust's in Him for Salvation34