Faith to believe on Christ !

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starfield said:
Why was Cain’s offering rejected?
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As it says in the first verse of the Gospel of John, Christ was from the beginning. It was always through Christ's blood that atonement was given, Christ is our eternal God, Christ always was. Until Christ was resurrected in our kind of time, the blood of animals was used as a symbol, a shadow of the reality of the crucifixion but it was always only through the blood of Christ. Men were let know this from the time of creation. When Cain tried to use anything else it was not acceptable, just it is not acceptable for us to use anything but Christ's blood today.
 
RedTent said:
As it says in the first verse of the Gospel of John, Christ was from the beginning. It was always through Christ's blood that atonement was given, Christ is our eternal God, Christ always was. Until Christ was resurrected in our kind of time, the blood of animals was used as a symbol, a shadow of the reality of the crucifixion but it was always only through the blood of Christ. Men were let know this from the time of creation. When Cain tried to use anything else it was not acceptable, just it is not acceptable for us to use anything but Christ's blood today.
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I don't think it was the nature of Cain's offering (i.e. produce as opposed to animal) that led to it being rejected but the fact that he lacked faith and had an evil heart (1 John 3:12). Abel offered his in faith thus it was acceptable to God. Hebrews 11:4-6 attests this...

4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 
Faith is Spiritual !


Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.

There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them !

Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !35
 
Faith is complete when it is acted upon. If you have faith in Jesus Christ but you dont accept Him as Lord and Saviour are you saved?
 
svedbygrace said:
Did you understand Post 63 ? Please discuss the points made.
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Romans 12:3 [SUP] [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every man has a measure of faith.

When a person is born again that is the fruit of that faith when it is acted upon.

Otherwise no one would desire to know more about God and be saved if they didn't have this measure of faith to begin with.

Something caused you to want to come to Jesus even when you were dead in your sins. You are overlooking that. Or your theology teacher is overlooking it.

Don't you remember how much you wanted Him to cause you to be perfect before Him? This desire came from the faith you have in Him. The more knowledge you gained of Him the more you wanted to be like Him. Right?

The Lord was leading you the whole way. But you had to do something with your faith to be born again, right? You didn't just wake up one morning and think you were born again.
 
John 1:9 Jesus is the True Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Grandpa said:
Romans 12:3 [SUP] [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every man has a measure of faith.

When a person is born again that is the fruit of that faith when it is acted upon.

Otherwise no one would desire to know more about God and be saved if they didn't have this measure of faith to begin with.

Something caused you to want to come to Jesus even when you were dead in your sins. You are overlooking that. Or your theology teacher is overlooking it.

Don't you remember how much you wanted Him to cause you to be perfect before Him? This desire came from the faith you have in Him. The more knowledge you gained of Him the more you wanted to be like Him. Right?

The Lord was leading you the whole way. But you had to do something with your faith to be born again, right? You didn't just wake up one morning and think you were born again.
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Did you understand Post 63 ? Please discuss the points made.
 
svedbygrace said:
Did you understand Post 63 ? Please discuss the points made.
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I'm trying to be nice. Post 63 demonstrates nothing but husks. No meat. Sorry but it just doesn't communicate anything of value for edification.
Man has a free will. Man has the knowledge of good and evil. God Who births every soul into this world lights it with an ability to respond to the Creator. John 1:9 Men have a responsibility to respond to the Light. All men respond, some to eternal life and others to eternal condemnation. John 3:19-21 God has chosen preaching of His word to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:18-21. So then faith, faith that saves in that it appropriates Gods grace, comes from hearing and hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17. After conversion it is faith received by hearing the word of God that comforts strengthens, and gives peace that passes understanding.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome said:
John 1:9 Jesus is the True Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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That scripture pertains to the elect church at regeneration. Not all men have the True Light, for its a Spiritual Light. All men refers to both jew and gentile elect. Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Lk 2:32

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
 
svedbygrace said:
That scripture pertains to the elect church at regeneration. Not all men have the True Light, for its a Spiritual Light. All men refers to both jew and gentile elect. Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Lk 2:32

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
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Read it the way it is written. The Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world. It does not say the elect. That is limited atonement error.
Messiah came to His own things but His own people received Him not. John 1:11 After He was rejected the Gentiles were made the beneficiaries of Israel's rejection. The blessing passed to them who did receive Him.
Among the nations Israel was elect not the Gentiles.

Tell me how does a Calvinist get saved? Is a Calvinist allowed to ask Christ to save him? Or is a Calvinist saved whether he wants to be saved or not? If you teach limited atonement do you then teach irresistible grace?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
svedbygrace said:
I did, I also studied the scriptures to understand it.
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Probably not much I can add. You are set and determined not to see anything that contradicts that position. I do not understand how you can read the scriptures to exclude those whom God created and loves. I see Gods promises as inclusive not exclusive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Faith is an Evidence of Union with Christ !


Faith in Christ does not give us a spiritual union with Christ, but is the evidence of such a Union with Christ. For faith is the evidence of things hoped for Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And so it is Faith cannot be the thing it evidences as a reality,and the reality that is unseen must exist before . Now the Reality is that believers, before believing were the Children of God by Union with Christ. Yes we are already Children of God by Union before Believing on Christ which is the evidence of that Union.

And it is because of that Union with Christ before we become believers, of which we are the Children of God, God sends His Spirit in our Hearts Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons r descendants, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

By which Spirit we receive a witness to ourselves that we are the Children of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And so, those who do believe in Jesus have the witness in themselves 1 Jn 5:10

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness or evidence in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

The Spirit being given as in Gal 4:6 is the Evidence that we had a Union with Christ before believing that we were by that Union, Children of God. We were Joint Heirs with Christ in the Eternal Counsels of God ! Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

That word Joint denotes Union with Christ !36
 
New Birth before Faith !


One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !
 
The Faith of Christ or out of Christ !

All those Christ died for are given a portion or dealt a portion of His Faith, The Faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

By which He in their stead and in their behalf overcome the World Jn 16:33

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Now understand, Jesus statement here is not as a Private Individual Person, but as an Head and Representative of His Church, and the Overcoming Faith that He has, it is communicated to All His Members in the New Birth and so they become overcomer's by their Gift of Faith given them from Him, the faith of the Son of God 1 Jn 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Its easy to see here that the Faith is born of God !

In the original Faith of the Son of God is genitive which means:

For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".
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Greek Nouns (Shorter Definitions)

Thats what Kind of Faith Paul had " Of the Son of God" which is a overcoming Faith !38
 
svedbygrace said:
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !
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44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day [h=3]John 6:44 when we are called we receive the faith necessary to accept god but god has to call the person first in order for them to receive that [/h]
 
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