False Teachers

[tablet123]

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

If someone honestly wants to take the word of God for what it says with no bias, not being afraid for what is says then they should check it out for themselves and do not worry about what other people say.

Which is first priority and at Church when the preacher speaks check it out yourself.

There is so many preachers saying different things how can you trust they have the truth unless you check it out yourselves.

Like a man that says I want a prenuptial agreement and the woman says you don't truth me.

What, America has a high divorce rate, highly selfish, highly self exalting, and can't have enough money and material things, and highly sinful, and you are going to say you don't trust me.

There is no guarantee.

Stop trusting any preacher that comes in to your path and check it out with no bias.

I do not go by what people say but check everything out for myself.

The Bible and what is going on in the world.

I believe I will understand better and more completely.

 

[Watchman22]

Thought you were done?

Selah

 

[Watchman22]

Selah

You do know I could add people to that 5 pages of private discussion we had about th e surrendered life and the salvation process, which you completely agreed with?

 

[OMC]

You do know I could add people to that 5 pages of private discussion we had about th e surrendered life and the salvation process, which you completely agreed with?

Yes, you could add people to that discussion — but doing so wouldn’t change what I actually agreed with, because I never agreed that surrender causes salvation or that surrender is part of saving faith.

What I agreed with — and still agree with — is the Romans 6 reality:

A saved person will live a surrendered life.

What I did not agree with — and never will — is the Romans 3 error:

A surrendered life is saving faith.

Those are two different categories, and our entire 5‑page exchange was built on keeping them distinct.

 

[Watchman22]

Yes, you could add people to that discussion — but doing so wouldn’t change what I actually agreed with, because I never agreed that surrender causes salvation or that surrender is part of saving faith.

What I agreed with — and still agree with — is the Romans 6 reality:


What I did not agree with — and never will — is the Romans 3 error:


Those are two different categories, and our entire 5‑page exchange was built on keeping them distinct.

You are all over the place. I noticed it a few days into our discussions. It's like you don't remember what you said the day before.

You should have been honest with your situation from the start.

 

[OMC]

You are all over the place. I noticed it a few days into our discussions. It's like you don't remember what you said the day before.

You should have been honest with your situation from the start.

I was absolutely consistent — I affirmed Romans 6 fruit and rejected Romans 3 conditions every single time. I never once said surrender causes salvation, and I never once said surrender is part of saving faith. That part of the conversation never shifted.

 

[Watchman22]

I was absolutely consistent — I affirmed Romans 6 fruit and rejected Romans 3 conditions every single time. I never once said surrender causes salvation, and I never once said surrender is part of saving faith. That part of the conversation never shifted.

I see you.....

 

[Seeker47]

I have no argument with this thread but will add a note of caution. Many believers have been tarred and feathered with "False Teacher" for questioning church doctrine. It's the easiest was to quite those seeking answers.

Decide or yourself where the most harm is done.

 

[OMC]

Discernment in Scripture is the Spirit‑enabled ability to see truth clearly, to judge rightly, and to separate appearance from reality so that a believer can reject what is false and cling to what is good. It is never mere suspicion or personal intuition; it is the disciplined, humble practice of testing everything by the Word (1 Thess 5:21), examining oneself first (Matt 7:3–5), and then evaluating people, teachings, and situations with a clear eye and a clean heart. True discernment protects love, guards purity, and keeps a believer from being swept away by deception.

 

[GWH]

Scripture rebukes the confusion you’re promoting, because faith and a “continually surrendered life” are not the same thing, and treating them as identical is a failure of discernment: faith is a trust in Christ’s finished work (Rom 4:5; Eph 2:8), while surrender is the ongoing fruit of salvation (Rom 12:1), and collapsing them together is the very error Paul condemns in Galatians 3:3.
And as for “using AI,” Scripture commands believers to test everything (Acts 17:11), hold fast to what is good (1 Thess 5:21), and judge doctrine by the written Word (2 Tim 3:16–17) — not by personal spirituality, feelings, or the claim of a “continually surrendered life.” When someone elevates their subjective surrender above Scripture’s objective authority, Jesus calls that “teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt 15:9).

Well, I believe Scripture indicates that it is wrong both to collapse and to divorce saving faith and a surrendered life.
Saving faith is believing Jesus is Messiah and accepting Him as Lord, which trust continues unless the believer commits apostasy,
but this does not mean the saint never sins, because Christ's work/fruit (Eph. 2:10) is not finished until death (Matt. 10:22).

 

[OMC]

Well, I believe Scripture indicates that it is wrong both to collapse and to divorce saving faith and a surrendered life.
Saving faith is believing Jesus is Messiah and accepting Him as Lord, which trust continues unless the believer commits apostasy,
but this does not mean the saint never sins, because Christ's work/fruit (Eph. 2:10) is not finished until death (Matt. 10:22)

Saving faith and a surrendered life must neither be collapsed nor divorced, because Scripture presents them as distinct realities that always travel together: faith is the root, surrender is the fruit, and the two are inseparable without being identical.
Saving faith is trusting Jesus as Messiah and Lord — a God‑given, God‑initiated reliance on Christ that continues unless a person commits apostasy (Heb 10:22–39), but that ongoing trust does not mean the believer never sins, because Christ’s workmanship in us (Eph 2:10) is progressive and only completed at the end (Matt 10:22).
Your instinct is right: surrender does not cause salvation, nor is surrender part of saving faith, but a life of surrender is the necessary outworking of saving faith, because the Spirit who grants faith also produces obedience, perseverance, and transformation.

 

[TheLearner]

ouch brain ache

 

[timf]

If you echo someone who is in error, you should ask yourself what amount of guilt is yours.

This is where the Berean approach can be helpful. Asking is this true can be useful.

 

[Blade]

Yeah.. and when noticed.. or even called out so to speak some don't even say sorry or repent huh be they don't sin against us so we love them help them to come back.. we always forgive. For me I would have used Scripture.. for without it... Thanks anyway

 

[GWH]

Saving faith and a surrendered life must neither be collapsed nor divorced, because Scripture presents them as distinct realities that always travel together: faith is the root, surrender is the fruit, and the two are inseparable without being identical.
Saving faith is trusting Jesus as Messiah and Lord — a God‑given, God‑initiated reliance on Christ that continues unless a person commits apostasy (Heb 10:22–39), but that ongoing trust does not mean the believer never sins, because Christ’s workmanship in us (Eph 2:10) is progressive and only completed at the end (Matt 10:22).
Your instinct is right: surrender does not cause salvation, nor is surrender part of saving faith, but a life of surrender is the necessary outworking of saving faith, because the Spirit who grants faith also produces obedience, perseverance, and transformation.

Well, saving faith begins with surrender and continues with surrender, which is always voluntary/willing cooperation with the Spirit.
No forcing or programming of robots or favoritism for a few and hatred toward the rest.

 

[OMC]

Well, saving faith begins with surrender and continues with surrender, which is always voluntary/willing cooperation with the Spirit.
No forcing or programming of robots or favoritism for a few and hatred toward the rest.

Brother, the accusation that God “forces,” “programs robots,” or shows “favoritism for a few and hatred toward the rest” must be chastised because it misrepresents both the text and the argument; no one claimed God coerces the will or treats humanity like machines — Scripture says faith is “given” (Phil 1:29), “granted” (2 Pet 1:1), “authored” (Heb 12:2), and “revealed” (Matt 16:17), yet also commands humans to “believe,” “repent,” “obey,” and “walk in the Spirit,” which shows that divine initiative and human response are not opposites but complementary realities. Your claim that “saving faith begins with surrender” collapses two distinct biblical categories: faith is trusting Christ for rescue (John 1:12; Rom 3:26), while surrender is yielding the redeemed self to Christ’s rule (Rom 6:13; Luke 9:23); Scripture never makes surrender the condition of salvation, only the fruit of salvation, because regeneration produces obedience (Eph 2:10; 1 John 2:3–5). And when you say “no favoritism,” you’re importing a human definition of fairness that Scripture itself rejects — God’s mercy is never owed (Rom 9:15–16), His drawing is not universal (John 6:44), and His love is expressed in differentiated ways (Deut 7:7–8; John 17:9). So yes, cooperation with the Spirit is voluntary, but it is voluntary because the Spirit has already made the heart willing (Ps 110:3), not because surrender creates saving faith.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Everyone thinks someone else is a false teacher. But do they ever examine themselves and ask if maybe they are the false teacher.

 

[Churchgoer]

Apostle creed.

The rest minor difference is ok.

 

[GWH]

Brother, the accusation that God “forces,” “programs robots,” or shows “favoritism for a few and hatred toward the rest” must be chastised because it misrepresents both the text and the argument; no one claimed God coerces the will or treats humanity like machines — Scripture says faith is “given” (Phil 1:29), “granted” (2 Pet 1:1), “authored” (Heb 12:2), and “revealed” (Matt 16:17), yet also commands humans to “believe,” “repent,” “obey,” and “walk in the Spirit,” which shows that divine initiative and human response are not opposites but complementary realities. Your claim that “saving faith begins with surrender” collapses two distinct biblical categories: faith is trusting Christ for rescue (John 1:12; Rom 3:26), while surrender is yielding the redeemed self to Christ’s rule (Rom 6:13; Luke 9:23); Scripture never makes surrender the condition of salvation, only the fruit of salvation, because regeneration produces obedience (Eph 2:10; 1 John 2:3–5). And when you say “no favoritism,” you’re importing a human definition of fairness that Scripture itself rejects — God’s mercy is never owed (Rom 9:15–16), His drawing is not universal (John 6:44), and His love is expressed in differentiated ways (Deut 7:7–8; John 17:9). So yes, cooperation with the Spirit is voluntary, but it is voluntary because the Spirit has already made the heart willing (Ps 110:3), not because surrender creates saving faith.

Okay, I guess we will discuss this post on the Resolving... thread that I just posted on. TTYL there,
but I leave you here with the observation that being "made willing" is an oxymoron.

 

[GWH]

Everyone thinks someone else is a false teacher. But do they ever examine themselves and ask if maybe they are the false teacher.

Ever since a friend committed apostasy and I learned that my favorite teacher had been a minister who became agnostic,
I have always examined my own beliefs, comparing them with atheism--as I share in the thread "Apologetics...", where I begin
with a logical train of thought rather than with an immediate appeal to Scripture.

Even since joining CC almost two years ago, I have amended some of my beliefs due to examining them as prompted by discussions with folks here, which I share on the thread about "What folks have learned...".

My motto is "Love to learn , and learn to love."