Famous Preachers With Infamous Views

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Lancelot said:
Well that was sort of the point. So many apologists today condemn certain ministers as heretics, but none of those "heretics" are condoning murder or teaching the hyper-grace of Luther or saying that God pre-ordained some people to eternal damnation like Calvin or teaching baptismal regeneration like Augustine. If we can accept those men as legitimate vessels of God why not modern day "heretics"?
Click to expand...

we should accept that most likely not everyone gets everything right, Focus on the strong points, and learn to discern the bad points.

Paul warned us against following men.. We should heed pauls warnings.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

David was an adulterer till the day he died, How many wives did he have?

Calvin had some odd doctrines, But as far as the gospel goes. from what I can see, he had the true gospel. and many have come to God because God used a sinner Thats raise to God.. not calvin.
Click to expand...

Having multiple wives was/is not adultery.

Calvin may have had good doctrine, but no murderer has eternal life within them.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Having multiple wives was/is not adultery.
Click to expand...

Oh, When did the law get changed? Lets excuse davids sin?

Calvin may have had good doctrine, but no murderer has eternal life within them.
Click to expand...
Then no one will be in heaven, Because we all have hated our brother at one time or another, and in Gods eyes, thats murder.

So we are all murderers..

oh, and just in case you forgot. If you brreak th eleast of the laws. You guilty of breaking the whole law. So the little white lie you told last week. In Gods eyes, that was no better than murder, it all would cause us damnation if not for grace, so lets not start puffing ourselves up as better than others hen we are not.

I am not saying this man was write, or even trying to defend him, I have no desire or need to defend him, I am speaking a truth, Non of us are any better than any of these men as far as earning salvation goes. So we should stop condemning them. we are no better than they are. (only in our own minds, and maybe in the minds of some others, but not in Gods eyes)
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Oh, When did the law get changed? Lets excuse davids sin?


Then no one will be in heaven, Because we all have hated our brother at one time or another, and in Gods eyes, thats murder.

So we are all murderers..

oh, and just in case you forgot. If you brreak th eleast of the laws. You guilty of breaking the whole law. So the little white lie you told last week. In Gods eyes, that was no better than murder, it all would cause us damnation if not for grace, so lets not start puffing ourselves up as better than others hen we are not.

I am not saying this man was write, or even trying to defend him, I have no desire or need to defend him, I am speaking a truth, Non of us are any better than any of these men as far as earning salvation goes. So we should stop condemning them. we are no better than they are. (only in our own minds, and maybe in the minds of some others, but not in Gods eyes)
Click to expand...

Sure we're all guilty of murder, but we all don't continue in it. Justifying murder is the same as doing it. Calvin justified his murders.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Sure we're all guilty of murder, but we all don't continue in it. Justifying murder is the same as doing it. Calvin justified his murders.
Click to expand...

he was no different than anyone else his day. The church (catholic and protestant) were active in murdering anyone who was against them, be it jews, muslims, catholic or protestants. It was the norm of the day.

Please stop attacking a person who is not even alive to defend himself.
 
I find it hard to believe what is said in the video about Martin Luther King. MLK said that above all, he wanted to be remembered as following the One who loved His enemies so much, He died for them. That doesn't sound like the words of someone who didn't believe in the deity of Jesus.
 
Utah said:
I find it hard to believe what is said in the video about Martin Luther King. MLK said that above all, he wanted to be remembered as following the One who loved His enemies so much, He died for them. That doesn't sound like the words of someone who didn't believe in the deity of Jesus.
Click to expand...

I find this hard to believe also. I am not sure I believe everything said in the video..
 
eternally-gratefull said:
he was no different than anyone else his day. The church (catholic and protestant) were active in murdering anyone who was against them, be it jews, muslims, catholic or protestants. It was the norm of the day.

Please stop attacking a person who is not even alive to defend himself.
Click to expand...

Then they're all guilty. Following the crowd doesn't justify sin, does it?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
he was no different than anyone else his day. The church (catholic and protestant) were active in murdering anyone who was against them, be it jews, muslims, catholic or protestants. It was the norm of the day.

Please stop attacking a person who is not even alive to defend himself.
Click to expand...

Calvin's words condemn himself. He said this years after he had Servetus, a godly man, murdered for daring to oppose his doctrine.

"Honor, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Calvin's words condemn himself. He said this years after he had Servetus, a godly man, murdered for daring to oppose his doctrine.

"Honor, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."
Click to expand...

yep. So everything he said is false. (rolls eyes)

Again, if this is true, Paul and David fit the same mold. and again, EVERYONE DID THE SAME THING.. so I take it we should ignore what they all said? None of them could speak truth because they commited or condoned murder in the name of God?

I guess we should stick to the bible, not calvanism, lutheranism, arminianism, etc etc.

Oh wait, I have said this many times,, hmmmm
 
kaylagrl said:
Martin Luther was very antisemitic though.
Click to expand...

Yes, towards the end of his life. He let his frustration with Jews not recognising the Messiah get the best of him at times. I admire the man greatly, but certainly not in all areas of his life. Luther was a saint/sinner, just like you and me. And his later life antiSemitism isn't something to celebrate.
 
Tintin said:
Yes, towards the end of his life. He let his frustration with Jews not recognising the Messiah get the best of him at times. I admire the man greatly, but certainly not in all areas of his life. Luther was a saint/sinner, just like you and me. And his later life antiSemitism isn't something to celebrate.
Click to expand...

Yes, as he grew older and more frustrated, he went kinda "Postal" on the Jews and what should be done to them......no doubting that. It is a matter of Record.
 
The old saying goes like this..."we can follow a person's faith in Jesus but maybe not their doctrine!"
 
Tintin said:
Yes, towards the end of his life. He let his frustration with Jews not recognising the Messiah get the best of him at times. I admire the man greatly, but certainly not in all areas of his life. Luther was a saint/sinner, just like you and me. And his later life antiSemitism isn't something to celebrate.
Click to expand...

Not to mention, I've been a Lutheran for 32 years and I don't remember ever hearing an ill word spoken against Jews in my church or any other Lutheran church or gathering of Lutherans (the only reference has been the occasional mention by pastors or other members about Luther's antiSemitism towards the end of his life, reminding us that while we honour the man for how God's used him, we're not to follow him, but Jesus, who was Jewish). Other than that, I only really found out some Christians had issues with Jews when I joined CC.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tintin said:
Not to mention, I've been a Lutheran for 32 years and I don't remember ever hearing an ill word spoken against Jews in my church or any other Lutheran church or gathering of Lutherans (the only reference has been the occasional mention by pastors or other members about Luther's antiSemitism towards the end of his life, reminding us that while we honour the man for how God's used him, we're not to follow him, but Jesus, who was Jewish). Other than that, I only really found out some Christians had issues with Jews when I joined CC.
Click to expand...

Given the drastic change in his views of the Jews, I have to wonder if there wasn't something medical/mental going on there that we do not know about? Reading how he supported and worried about them early in his life, it is hard to understand how such a drastic change occurred.

You are right though, I have never herd such comments from the Lutheran Church today, nor would I expect to.
 
KJV1611 said:
Here's another shocker.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrf60-zHl9A[/video]
Click to expand...

He probably got that garbage from Norman Vincent Peal, he has said Peale was a good friend and a mentor.

"In 1984 Norman Vincent Peale was interviewed on the Phil Donahue program, said, "Its's not necessary to be born again. You have your way to God; I have mine. I found eternal peace in a Shinto shrine ...I've been to Shinto shrines, and God is everywhere:" Shocked by this, Phil Donahue responded, "But your're a Christian minister; yout're supposed to tell me that Christ is the way and the truth and the life, aren't you?" Peale replied. "Christ is one of the ways. God is everywhere." (Christian News, May 12 1997, 11.) Would anyone who holds to Christ being their Lord deny him in such a blatant manner? This is beyond question a horrible statement that reject's Christ's lordship. Donahue was shocked and rightly so, but the church was not. He recieved no backlash or correction for this. Peale was a universalist, believing that everyone is going to heaven as they believe in God, any god. That is not a Christian position."

Norman Vincient Peale

Peale denied the virgin birth, deity, resurrection, and vicarious satisfaction of Jesus Christ. I can't imagine how Graham could have been friends with him unless he shared his thinking!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back