Female pastors, ok or not?

[preacher4truth]

You know, if it wasn't for the internet or even these forums no one would even be having these discussions.

Lolzzzzzz...You don't recall much church history then, do you? Or the late Dr. Walter Martin? Or the many panels exposing ecumenism, heresies, along with conferences &c? Come on man, you need to think a lot deeper. You're not even in the same solar system if you think these discussions wouldn't be happening. They've always happened and they should take place more often. Do you realize how many sheep are led into cults because they know little to nothing, and have been in churches for years?

Before the internet did you focus more on God and witnessing to people or did you have times where you were searching out heretics or false teachers?

I focus on God now, and witnessing to people. How about you? Thanks for your concern bro, I appreciate it. Let me share with you a little if you don't mind.

My ministry is to preach the Gospel and always has been, to train the saints, to help them grow in grace and knowledge, and to warn them. It's a job of a shepherd which is why they have a staff, and because they watch out for wolves. Kind of like what Paul said in Acts 20:28. If all of that doesn't suffice, keep in mind Paul only wrote one letter not dealing with this.

Jesus warned about these in Matthew 7. One method I use to detect false and true is generally those being singled out and called out for exposing error is they are treated like a wolf, so, in today's theologically inept church they are generally speaking the truth since they are singled out. On the other hand I watch real careful those who try to come across as "peace loving get along with everyone" sheep because wolves will come in sheep's clothing.

For the record I don't search out heretics/false teachers, I listen to men of God like Stephen Lawson, Erwin Lutzer, R C Sproul, John MacArthur, Dr. James White and many more. You'd be surprised to hear from these how much of their ministry is dealing with false teachers and false teachings. But I just love the lame cop out derogation "heretic hunters", it is generally employed by nominal Christians and is intended to ridicule others.

Perhaps then we should apply all this to you; Perhaps it is you who needs to spend a little more time in discernment and warning as your manner has been only to ridicule those who do?

Look at all the warnings in the NT. There are many. That is there for a very good reason. .

Yeah I would maybe see a preacher on tv who said something I didn't agree with or what not, but I really never had serious debates or discussions about them. The discussions I did have was about the Word and we went door to door witnessing to people. Yes False Doctrines did come up in Bible Studies but we never actually brought up any preachers or people themselves.

I guess it is just a brave new world now

False teachers were named by name in Scripture. Not only that, they were to be "marked" as such, Romans 16:17. Very difficult to do that without pointing out who they are.

 

[CeileDe]

Lolzzzzzz...You don't recall much church history then, do you? Or the late Dr. Walter Martin? Or the many panels exposing ecumenism, heresies, along with conferences &c. Come on man, you need to think a lot deeper. You're not even in the same solar system if you think these discussions wouldn't be happening.



I focus on God now, and witnessing to people. How about you? Thanks for your concern bro, I appreciate it. Let me share with you a little if you don't mind.

My ministry is to preach the Gospel and always has been, to train the saints, to help them grow in grace and knowledge, and to warn them. It's a job of a shepherd which is why they have a staff, and because they watch out for wolves. Kind of like what Paul said in Acts 20:28. If all of that doesn't suffice, keep in mind Paul only wrote one letter not dealing with this.

Jesus warned about these in Matthew 7. One method I use to detect false and true is generally those being singled out and called out for exposing error is they are treated like a wolf, so, in today's theologically inept church they are generally speaking the truth since they are singled out. On the other hand I watch real careful those who try to come across as "peace loving get along with everyone" sheep because wolves will come in sheep's clothing.

For the record I don't search out heretics/false teachers, I listen to men of God like Stephen Lawson, Erwin Lutzer, R C Sproul, John MacArthur, Dr. James White and many more. You'd be surprised to hear from these how much of their ministry is dealing with false teachers and false teachings. But I just love the lame cop out derogation "heretic hunters", it is generally employed by nominal Christians and is intended to ridicule others.

Perhaps then we should apply all this to you; Perhaps it is you who needs to spend a little more time in discernment and warning as your manner has been only to ridicule those who do.

Look at all the warnings in the NT. There are many. That is there for a very good reason. .



False teachers were named by name in Scripture. Not only that, they were to be "marked" as such, Romans 16:17. Very difficult to do that without pointing out who they are.

Well I can say I never really got into Church history until I started going to college again. It really wasn't my focus when it came to my spiritual growing. And yes I know scripture talks about it but it has never been something I have felt God needing me to pursue. I guess that is why He has you? Not really trying to ridicule you about it, I just don't find it edifying I guess. And you are right that is me not you. If you feel it is Gods will for you to call out heretics then I say go for it. God hasn't led me to do this and quite frankly I have no desire to.

You mention John MaCarthur? That guy has a few heretical comments.

 

[stonesoffire]

It is always wise to look at the early church. Do you have some early Christian writings (except of the NT places we talk about) that say something about women in the position of the leadership?

No, but I read the commentary in the Expositors Bible. Paul was dealing with religious Jews still thinking of laws, and gentiles who formerly were lawless.

And what I was taught years ago, is that women were calling out questions to men who were speaking. Or even questioning them and even their authority. So Paul is saying let them learn from their husbands at home...otherwise shut up in the assembly. lol

And in Timothy...the chapter is dealing with intercession for all being so important. Is why the comment about women being saved in child bearing. It's the closest time to death that a woman goes through when a child is born. Many things can go wrong. So be prayerful for all the church, interceding in love.

That's the topic.

 

[BeyondET]

Lolzzzzzz...You don't recall much church history then, do you? Or the late Dr. Walter Martin? Or the many panels exposing ecumenism, heresies, along with conferences &c? Come on man, you need to think a lot deeper. You're not even in the same solar system if you think these discussions wouldn't be happening. They've always happened and they should take place more often. Do you realize how many sheep are led into cults because they know little to nothing, and have been in churches for years?



I focus on God now, and witnessing to people. How about you? Thanks for your concern bro, I appreciate it. Let me share with you a little if you don't mind.

My ministry is to preach the Gospel and always has been, to train the saints, to help them grow in grace and knowledge, and to warn them. It's a job of a shepherd which is why they have a staff, and because they watch out for wolves. Kind of like what Paul said in Acts 20:28. If all of that doesn't suffice, keep in mind Paul only wrote one letter not dealing with this.

Jesus warned about these in Matthew 7. One method I use to detect false and true is generally those being singled out and called out for exposing error is they are treated like a wolf, so, in today's theologically inept church they are generally speaking the truth since they are singled out. On the other hand I watch real careful those who try to come across as "peace loving get along with everyone" sheep because wolves will come in sheep's clothing.

For the record I don't search out heretics/false teachers, I listen to men of God like Stephen Lawson, Erwin Lutzer, R C Sproul, John MacArthur, Dr. James White and many more. You'd be surprised to hear from these how much of their ministry is dealing with false teachers and false teachings. But I just love the lame cop out derogation "heretic hunters", it is generally employed by nominal Christians and is intended to ridicule others.

Perhaps then we should apply all this to you; Perhaps it is you who needs to spend a little more time in discernment and warning as your manner has been only to ridicule those who do?

Look at all the warnings in the NT. There are many. That is there for a very good reason. .



False teachers were named by name in Scripture. Not only that, they were to be "marked" as such, Romans 16:17. Very difficult to do that without pointing out who they are.

I like your write up and I agree I do somethings you mentioned as well, but just not on what you say about the poster you quoted.

but I'm just a waste of time so.

 

[stonesoffire]

Speaking as Holy Spirit flows out of ones mouth...that is how we all should speak.

Then we might be unified. Male nor female in this way.

 

[preacher4truth]

I like your write up and I agree I do somethings you mentioned as well, but just not on what you say about the poster you quoted.

but I'm just a waste of time so.

Hey, if the shoe fits, wear it bro. We're grown men here and I called you on your behaviors that you directed my way. In the past all you offered towards me was ridicule and slander and frankly it was callow behavior.

Maybe you've turned over a new leaf, I do not know? I am all about forgiving, yet at the same time I will not pay attention to those whose practice is merely to ridicule and insult others ministries who stand for truth. I think you're a better man than than you are portraying yourself on here and you get caught up in all the arguing. Certainly you love the Word and the LORD or you wouldn't be here. Perhaps we can get off on a better foot now.

 

[BeyondET]

Hey, if the shoe fits, wear it bro. We're grown men here and I called you on your behaviors that you directed my way. In the past all you offered towards me was ridicule and slander and frankly it was callow behavior.

Maybe you've turned over a new leaf, I do not know? I am all about forgiving, yet at the same time I will not pay attention to those whose practice is merely to ridicule and insult others ministries who stand for truth. I think you're a better man than than you are portraying yourself on here and you get caught up in all the arguing. Certainly you love the Word and the LORD or you wouldn't be here. Perhaps we can get off on a better foot now.

Well we are grown men bro, you started it by calling me callow in the first place remember? I'm three years younger than you not 30 years, I didn't just jump on your case for nothing my friend. Can you own up to fact that you do the same thing to what your preaching about ridicule, insult, slender, others.

Ive seen some of your post and they are just beating on the heads of people and expect people to take it. Surely I'm not saying I'm spotless I can make a mistake and speak quickly and think slowly like anyone else. And as well I think you are a better man than your portraying also. if you called me a waste of time a callow than you have called others in your life that also. but I don't think that's really who you are a name caller.

I'm more than willing to bury the hatchet, but you haven't spoken everything in a respectful way either it takes two to tango a lot times. Now that I got that off my chest indeed we can be at peace with each other but it will take the both us to make it happen.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well we are grown men bro, you started it by calling me callow in the first place remember? I'm three years younger than you not 30 years, I didn't just jump on your case for nothing my friend. Can you own up to fact that you do the same thing to what your preaching about ridicule, insult, slender, others.

Ive seen some of your post and they are just beating on the heads of people and expect people to take it. Surely I'm not saying I'm spotless I can make a mistake and speak quickly and think slowly like anyone else. And as well I think you are a better man than your portraying also. if you called me a waste of time a callow than you have called others in your life that also. but I don't think that's really who you are a name caller.

I'm more than willing to bury the hatchet, but you haven't spoken everything in a respectful way either it takes two to tango a lot times. Now that I got that off my chest indeed we can be at peace with each other but it will take the both us to make it happen.

Let's go back to where you intended to insult me for calling out false teachers. This really isn't about how you feel about what I may have said to others is it? This is about you and me, not others. It is about that specific treatment you directed at me, out of the blue, then carried on page after page until I decided the best thing was to ignore you.

Do you realize what message you sent to others? That the false teachers deceiving them are OK, and that exposing them is wrong? Think about that bro. Now you come and actually like a post wherein I am basically explaining the same things?

So the context is you blasted me for standing for truth. That's the subject matter at hand not how you feel about all other posts you have a problem with, but OK, let's do a case by case study each of them if you so desire.

Bro, I love you in Christ man because I believe you are in Him and love Him. Your behavior there was callow and uncalled for my man. You enjoined others and nothing you said was kind or even true and it was against Biblical mandates.

Sure, we've all done things, right? But how many times do you see two brothers actually own up to their behavior between themselves and reconcile? That's right, there is a huge lack of manhood these days especially (and ashamedly) among those who know the King of Kings. I'm not going to address other rabbit trails, this is about a specific exchange between you and I where you went on the attack for my stance. Remember we are in Christ, it is time for men of God to man up.

 

[Angela53510]

uhuh the word kings are literaly ''a kingdom" or ''king/kingship" which referrs to the standard and not a gender. Or the place Kingdom
which this word comes up many times and only in this verse some translate it as ''kings" as it is a ''kingdom"
βασιλείαν (basileian)
Revelation 5:10 N-AFS
GRK: θεῷ ἡμῶν βασιλείαν καὶ ἱερεῖς
NAS: You have made them [to be] a kingdom and priests

Also the word for Priests ''hiereis" is not the masculine form hereus.
ἱερεῖς (hiereis)

So that try is, for me, disqualified to consider

I thank you for trying, along with your subsequent posts. But neither you nor timetravler have it right!

Why? Because Greek is an ancient language, and that is what the writers of the NT had to use. It is complex beyond comprehension compared to English. Without a background in languages such as German and French, I doubt I would have been able to do so well in Greek as I have.

First, one of the things which constricts Greek authors, is that they had to use the gender of the noun. Always!

Second, masculine was ALWAYS inclusive of the female. Just like Phoebe is a deacon, not a deaconess, because the word deacon in Greek is always masculine (since thousands of years before Christ!) Phoebe, a woman, was a deacon! Not a servant, because King James hated women, because Elizabeth had ruled Britain with a hand of iron, for so many years, and was the best regent the country ever had! Saved the country from the Spanish invasion (and accompanying Inquistion??).

In my studies, I have noticed great consistence in how the gender of many nouns has been assigned.

King - masculine
kingdom - feminine (We would say a king is masculine in English, because he is male! Not so in Greek! The WORD is masculine!)

Basileian is indeed "kingdom" and it is an accusative feminine singular. (First Declension) It is NOT king!
Priests is masculine, being the noun which people are, and it is nominative masculine plural. (Third Declension) (Made me look for that one, I confess!)

We do not assign genders to words - just people! But in Greek, a woman can be a male noun. It is not the person that is masculine but the noun.

Other examples of this same principle:
diaknovia- feminine - service
diakonvos - masculine - servant, deacon, assistant

A deacon is not a "man doing feminine things." It is the nomenclature of the Greek language. A woman who serves is a deacon, and so is a man.

Didiaskalos - masculine - teacher
Diaskalia - feminine - teaching

This is not a man doing a feminine thing! It is a person who might be male or female, doing something which has feminine gender.

Kleronomia - masculine - heir
kleronomia - feminine - inheritance

krites - masculine - judge
krisis - feminine - judgment

martus - masculine - witness
marturia - feminine - testimony
Marturiov - neuter - testimony, proof

And so on! Do not lay your understanding of English, (combined with some bad translating of Greek by the KJV translators,) on the Greek. (I do not read any verses in KJV, because I don't have time to figure out what they mean!) Plus, Blue Letter Bible is entirely based on KJV, along with Strong's, back translating from KJV English, so they are not good sources of defining these words.

Resorting to the noun morphology is NOT the answer to the debate of whether women can be pastors. Morphology has nothing to do with the theological issue of whether women can be pastors or not!

 

[BeyondET]

Let's go back to where you intended to insult me for calling out false teachers. This really isn't about how you feel about what I may have said to others is it? This is about you and me, not others. It is about that specific treatment you directed at me, out of the blue, then carried on page after page until I decided the best thing was to ignore you.

Do you realize what message you sent to others? That the false teachers deceiving them are OK, and that exposing them is wrong? Think about that bro. Now you come and actually like a post wherein I am basically explaining the same things?

So the context is you blasted me for standing for truth. That's the subject matter at hand not how you feel about all other posts you have a problem with, but OK, let's do a case by case study each of them if you so desire.

Bro, I love you in Christ man because I believe you are in Him and love Him. Your behavior there was callow and uncalled for my man. You enjoined others and nothing you said was kind or even true and it was against Biblical mandates.

Sure, we've all done things, right? But how many times do you see two brothers actually own up to their behavior between themselves and reconcile? That's right, there is a huge lack of manhood these days especially (and ashamedly) among those who know the King of Kings. I'm not going to address other rabbit trails, this is about a specific exchange between you and I where you went on the attack for my stance. Remember we are in Christ, it is time for men of God to man up.

Well I don't think I used any slander or insulting words, when I disagreed with you on that topic, I simply said my opinion.
I do understand how you feel when someone disagrees with something you believe and that's honorable indeed. I get that without a doubt but nonetheless that shouldn't be taken as a insult but a disagreement. Jesus was told he wasn't the Son of God I don't think He was insulted He knew who He was.

We can look at each post in that discussion and let's view it if you like, if I had used insulting words to you with names or whatever please show me so I can learn from my mistakes if that's how you view what I had said.

Yes I completely agree about being humble enough to stop all the fighting and arguing is challenging around here. lol

 

[Ariel82]

Trolls, Where? Call to arms. Man the towers; Archers ready your bows.

Sorry, was bored

Yeah too late for that one. The BanHammer got her.

do guys do that? Fight when they are bored?

It would explain so much....

 

[CeileDe]

Yeah too late for that one. The BanHammer got her.

do guys do that? Fight when they are bored?

It would explain so much....

Nah I don't think so. I usually sleep when I'm bored lol.

 

[Angela53510]

I see this thread is mostly done. But a few last words, and I will try to remain brief! (Is that even possible?)

1. The word "authority" in 1 Tim. 2:12. Thanks to DCon for understanding what I said, even if you don't agree with it. And I will address your concern.

Authority does NOT equal αὐθεντεῖν (authentein). Authority is a noun, authentein is an non-indicative infinitive verb, found once in the NT and it usually means "to domineer." If you are KJO, then stop reading! No one wants to destroy a cult following of an ancient Bible, right?

If you use "authority," instead of "to domineer" then you have to add a verb (exercise/usurp) and some kind of preposition, like "over." So, it is a dishonest translation! You should never have to add 2 words because you want to make a verb in to a noun, and it doesn't make sense.

If I have one more person post "but 1 Tim. 2:12 says usurp authority" Yes, if God says it, I believe it, but not when it does not translate the Bible correctly! Believe God, not some men translators, coming out of the longest and best reign England ever had, in Queen Elizabeth. (If you think women are too "feminine" to be strong leaders, I would urge you to read about the bloodthirsty reigns of both Elizabeth and her older sister Mary. Talk about theological wars resulting in hangings, pillaging, rape and so forth!
(I promised Maxwel I would not be so hard on men - just giving equal time to women and how they ruled. Is that ok now, Max?)

2. DCon brought out a good point, which I forgot to address in my other posts. Even if "women are not to domineer" is correct, it says "a woman is not to teach."

First, be aware that this instruction is to A WOMAN! Not to "all women" or even "some women." Both the Greek and English are clear - Paul is writing about one woman, and not talking about a universal principle. PLUS - verse 11 is also about one woman.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness" 1 Tim. 2:11

So a woman - singular, is to learn quietly. Why was Paul talking in the singular? Because, he was obviously talking about ONE woman who was teaching heresy, or causing problems or both! One woman can do a lot of damage. But Paul felt she could be restored, because the instructions tell her to "learn quietly."

Why did Paul say this? This practise goes back to rabbinical practices and traditions. And in fact, Paul was including this woman as if she was a rabbinical student. "Silence and submission were an admonition for a model student in the Near Far East. "Before, throughout and after Paul's time, the rabbis agreed that silence was an admirable attribute for the pious scholar." "As Simon, the son of Gamaliel explained, 'All my days I grew up among the sages, and I have found nothing better for a person thatn silence.'" (References available if you want them!)

Any pupil must have a teachable attitude. This is normal for every disciple. Paul's words made it clear that it was no different for a woman than it was for a man who wished to learn. "A woman [like a man] cannot learn if she does not listen and yield to the instructor.

Verses 1-7 of 1 Tim 2, speak of all "people." God wants prayers for all people and he wants all people to be saved. ESV gets this right, KJV gets it wrong. Paul has quite advanced Greek, he knows the difference between aner (man) and anthorpos (people). Again, this is a good example of one of two things.

1. The masculine includes the feminine. (Which is does in Greek, French, Spanish and other Romance languages, and it used to mean that in English, before PC. But, since most of the men here are using the word MEN to mean only males, we must stick with that definition.

2. That God's plan is NOT that all men (meaning males) would be saved, be pastors, etc, but that that he wants all PEOPLE to be saved, and engage in ministry.

 

[kaylagrl]

Thank you for the rep sis Angela.

 

[maxwel]

I see this thread is mostly done. But a few last words, and I will try to remain brief! (Is that even possible?)

1. The word "authority" in 1 Tim. 2:12. Thanks to DCon for understanding what I said, even if you don't agree with it. And I will address your concern.

Authority does NOT equal αὐθεντεῖν (authentein). Authority is a noun, authentein is an non-indicative infinitive verb, found once in the NT and it usually means "to domineer." If you are KJO, then stop reading! No one wants to destroy a cult following of an ancient Bible, right?

If you use "authority," instead of "to domineer" then you have to add a verb (exercise/usurp) and some kind of preposition, like "over." So, it is a dishonest translation! You should never have to add 2 words because you want to make a verb in to a noun, and it doesn't make sense.

If I have one more person post "but 1 Tim. 2:12 says usurp authority" Yes, if God says it, I believe it, but not when it does not translate the Bible correctly! Believe God, not some men translators, coming out of the longest and best reign England ever had, in Queen Elizabeth. (If you think women are too "feminine" to be strong leaders, I would urge you to read about the bloodthirsty reigns of both Elizabeth and her older sister Mary. Talk about theological wars resulting in hangings, pillaging, rape and so forth!
(I promised Maxwel I would not be so hard on men - just giving equal time to women and how they ruled. Is that ok now, Max?)

2. DCon brought out a good point, which I forgot to address in my other posts. Even if "women are not to domineer" is correct, it says "a woman is not to teach."

First, be aware that this instruction is to A WOMAN! Not to "all women" or even "some women." Both the Greek and English are clear - Paul is writing about one woman, and not talking about a universal principle. PLUS - verse 11 is also about one woman.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness" 1 Tim. 2:11

So a woman - singular, is to learn quietly. Why was Paul talking in the singular? Because, he was obviously talking about ONE woman who was teaching heresy, or causing problems or both! One woman can do a lot of damage. But Paul felt she could be restored, because the instructions tell her to "learn quietly."

Why did Paul say this? This practise goes back to rabbinical practices and traditions. And in fact, Paul was including this woman as if she was a rabbinical student. "Silence and submission were an admonition for a model student in the Near Far East. "Before, throughout and after Paul's time, the rabbis agreed that silence was an admirable attribute for the pious scholar." "As Simon, the son of Gamaliel explained, 'All my days I grew up among the sages, and I have found nothing better for a person thatn silence.'" (References available if you want them!)

Any pupil must have a teachable attitude. This is normal for every disciple. Paul's words made it clear that it was no different for a woman than it was for a man who wished to learn. "A woman [like a man] cannot learn if she does not listen and yield to the instructor.

Verses 1-7 of 1 Tim 2, speak of all "people." God wants prayers for all people and he wants all people to be saved. ESV gets this right, KJV gets it wrong. Paul has quite advanced Greek, he knows the difference between aner (man) and anthorpos (people). Again, this is a good example of one of two things.

1. The masculine includes the feminine. (Which is does in Greek, French, Spanish and other Romance languages, and it used to mean that in English, before PC. But, since most of the men here are using the word MEN to mean only males, we must stick with that definition.

2. That God's plan is NOT that all men (meaning males) would be saved, be pastors, etc, but that that he wants all PEOPLE to be saved, and engage in ministry.

"I promised Maxwel I would not be so hard on men - just giving equal time to women and how they ruled. Is that ok now, Max?"

1. I already said whatever was on my mind, and I have now left the building.

2. I'm not even reading this thread to see what's going on.

3. I didn't even read this comment of yours I'm quoting; I see nothing.... I know nothing... and I'm not here.

 

[Angela53510]

Oh, I am wrapped up in this topic.

Finally, to those, (especially women on this thread) who think that a woman's role is to stay home, have babies and serve her husband, my advice is to look up the word "roles," in the Bible. It is not there. Women and men are different, but Christ has brought us together to serve God.

We love and serve our husbands, but first, we love and serve God. The only true authority is Jesus!

"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt 28:18

Here, the word "authority" is the noun, exousia. And that authority is given to Jesus. Not men, not women, not pastors, not bishops. Only Jesus!

In addition, not all women are married. I pray for a lady who has been a missionary in Taiwan for 40 years now. I pray for a woman who is in Japan, and has been there for 4 years now. These women are not married, they are serving God.

For those of us who are married, my last child left home 10 years ago. So am I expected to sit at home, and cook and clean (which is so hard for me physically!) or am I allowed to now serve God? In fact it was my daughter, my last child, who urged me to go to Seminary, so I would have something to do when she left home. But seriously God called me when my children were small, and I did not obey. My excuse was that my children were small. Wrong!

I will always regret I did not obey God's call to ministry in those days, but I thank God that he called me again when my children were grown.

For women who want to be moms and mothers, that is great! But just don't assume that is the calling for all women. The Bible is replete with examples of women in ministry! Deborah, Rahab, the daughters of Phillip, the woman at the well, Mary Magdalen, Phoebe, Priscilla, and so on, as others have fully documented. Men who want to narrow it down to "which women were pastors"
Are missing the point, that the word pastor is not actually in the NT. It is the word Poimen or Shepherd that is in the Bible. And if there were no women apostles, perhaps it was because Jesus lived, worked, walked and played with these men. Would Jewish culture have sanctioned a women hanging around and living with a bunch of men? Never!

Try to distinguish culture from universal principles. And if we disagree, let us be agreeable in our exegetics and hermenutics on this issue! I think that has happened on this thread, for the most part. I thank people for that!

 

[Angela53510]

"I promised Maxwel I would not be so hard on men - just giving equal time to women and how they ruled. Is that ok now, Max?"

1. I already said whatever was on my mind, and I have now left the building.

2. I'm not even reading this thread to see what's going on.

3. I didn't even read this comment of yours I'm quoting; I see nothing.... I know nothing... and I'm not here.

For someone not reading the thread, you sure pulled out that line, pretty quickly! LOL

Not my circus, not my monkeys? Good for you, but it is my circus, as a woman pastor! What can I say?

 

[CeileDe]

Finally, to those, (especially women on this thread) who think that a woman's role is to stay home, have babies and serve her husband, my advice is to look up the word "roles," in the Bible. It is not there. Women and men are different, but Christ has brought us together to serve God.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about women staying home and just having babies. This is coming from only you. Please provide any post on this thread that has said that. My wife is a full time mom and works full time. I'm a full time dad and work full time.

 

[stonesoffire]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.

Not all are called to offices Ceilde. You two are doing a good thing. We need good parents raising children right.

Hope I got your user name right this time.

For some reason I want to pronounce this as seal the day.

 

[CeileDe]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.

Not all are called to offices Ceilde. You two are doing a good thing. We need good parents raising children right.

Hope I got your user name right this time.

For some reason I want to pronounce this as seal the day.

haha np. It is pronounced like Kaylay Day. It is gaelic meaning spouse of God, companion of God