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Mark777
Guest
Probably a good idea to discuss your church issue with someone who knows you and your church situation personally if at all possible.
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Mark777
Guest
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Jullianna
Guest
If you are asking whether women should be involved in ministry, my answer is yes. The Great Commission was given to all of us. All of those who make up the body of Christ are to be involved in one of type ministry or another.
However, if your question is whether women should be in positions of authority over men in the Church, my answer would have to be no. The scriptures from Corinthians and James quoted above make this very clear. It is the model for the role of women within the body of Christ (the New Covenant). The gentleman who said that Adam was given authority over Eve is absolutely right. This was the order established by God Himself BEFORE the fall and BEFORE the giving of the law. It's the way God wants things done.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever, His ways are higher, and I find it very difficult to accept that He's willing to lower His standards just because society thinks He should. As zero said above, if we start throwing out scriptures that don't line up with changes in our "culture", what's next? Will abortion, gay marriage and perhaps even euthanasia become acceptable to the Church? Are we going to rip pages from our Bibles that don't fit our lifestyles and paste in the new stuff?
Yes, Deborah was a judge. We still have female judges in our court systems today. Yes, there are things mentioned in the law that those who are hidden in Christ no longer observe. We are saved by grace. We are not under the law (the old covenant).
I also agree that there are many women who are gifted writers, teachers, etc., and I see no problem with a man CHOOSING to stop for a moment, listen and consider godly wisdom when he hears it. But that is not giving the woman he's listening to authority over him. At some point my son will become a man and I will no longer have authority over him. That doesn't mean it would be wise for him to ignore wisdom I may share with him that is born of study, prayer and experience.
There are many opportunities for women to serve in ministry within the church that do not place a woman in authority over men. If ANYONE, within the body of Christ wants to serve others, there's always something that can be done. Jesus called us to feed the hungry, visit those in prison, care for the sick/orphans/widows. If everyone is the head, who will be the hands, feet and other parts that are so very important?
Jesus taught that those who were least in the Kingdom would be the greatest. He stressed service, not power and authority.
I've tried doing things the way I thought they should be done in my life, and I've found that doing it God's way is always best.
However, if your question is whether women should be in positions of authority over men in the Church, my answer would have to be no. The scriptures from Corinthians and James quoted above make this very clear. It is the model for the role of women within the body of Christ (the New Covenant). The gentleman who said that Adam was given authority over Eve is absolutely right. This was the order established by God Himself BEFORE the fall and BEFORE the giving of the law. It's the way God wants things done.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever, His ways are higher, and I find it very difficult to accept that He's willing to lower His standards just because society thinks He should. As zero said above, if we start throwing out scriptures that don't line up with changes in our "culture", what's next? Will abortion, gay marriage and perhaps even euthanasia become acceptable to the Church? Are we going to rip pages from our Bibles that don't fit our lifestyles and paste in the new stuff?
Yes, Deborah was a judge. We still have female judges in our court systems today. Yes, there are things mentioned in the law that those who are hidden in Christ no longer observe. We are saved by grace. We are not under the law (the old covenant).
I also agree that there are many women who are gifted writers, teachers, etc., and I see no problem with a man CHOOSING to stop for a moment, listen and consider godly wisdom when he hears it. But that is not giving the woman he's listening to authority over him. At some point my son will become a man and I will no longer have authority over him. That doesn't mean it would be wise for him to ignore wisdom I may share with him that is born of study, prayer and experience.
There are many opportunities for women to serve in ministry within the church that do not place a woman in authority over men. If ANYONE, within the body of Christ wants to serve others, there's always something that can be done. Jesus called us to feed the hungry, visit those in prison, care for the sick/orphans/widows. If everyone is the head, who will be the hands, feet and other parts that are so very important?
Jesus taught that those who were least in the Kingdom would be the greatest. He stressed service, not power and authority.
I've tried doing things the way I thought they should be done in my life, and I've found that doing it God's way is always best.
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Ramon
Guest
If any people have used the law and the scriptures to tell you you cannot witness for Jesus the same person has not known Jesus. If Jesus chooses you and calls you, it is better to obey Jesus than the commandments of man. Woman or Man, Jew or Gentile, anyone that is of Christ also testifies of Christ. Don't let Satan shut you up, neither man nor woman nor powers nor principalities. Obey Jesus.
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AnandaHya
Guest
I've tried and they all tell me to leave the church, but its the only one I've felt at home with to date. I joined and they accepted me as part of their family. I don't abandon family. They tell me not to stir the pot but so does the demon that is stalking the church so I don't trust it. I've been told to shut up and leave it for the "menfolk" to take care of, but they had been trying for three years. the issue was resolved in three days where the deacons saw where they had errored and their actions were illegal due to a sewage permit that stated "no daycare" well i'm sorry you can't mince words a summer camp that runs from 7am-6pm monday through friday is classified as a daycare. The head deacon even said "if we ask the health department they will say no to the camp and hit the church with a steep fine." They knew it was illegal and wrong and still pushed the summer camp through anyway. I had been volunteering for 8 weeks now and I didn't know about this problem. They wanted to push an after school program through, but they had no money to hire teachers and ITS ILLEGAL. I'm sorry I'm not going to sit back and let people manipulate the facts and get the church to close down. I'm new, just joined and everything, but still. I don't care if you are the head deacon and your wife is the sunday school director and her pet project is this summer camp and afterschool program. You have to do it right, you have to listen to dssenting opinoins without jumping up and calling them being influenced by the devil. Yes the have seniority in the church. the new pastor was just hired in October, everyone else who objected left the church. most of the members are new and don't know what is going on. Well I'm new and I refuse to seat down and shut up. i'm just looking for some Biblical support for my stance.
Everyone is trying to brush it under rug. they say things like "if we keep bringing up the child molestations the church will never have a cnance to heal." HEY red flag:
the lady is incompetent and needs to step down as Sunday school director when it happened multiple times during her watch. She should have listened when others in the church suggested that there should be two people in the classroom with the kids at all times. When a sunday school teacher molests the son of the pastor and the sunday school's directors own son gets involved with a fourteen year old. there is a problem.
I'm told not to attack her, she is in feeble mind state right now. I'm not trying to attack her I'm suggesting she step down and enter counseling. She gets panic attacks whenever she moves away from where the demon wants her to be. when she was left alone with the kids during the summer camp the kids would run wild and do whatever the demons whispered in their ears to do. one child actually banged the head of another against a table and there was a lump the size of an egg. I'm suprised that the father didn't sue for neglect.
I mean its serous, even if you can't see the demons, you can see the problems. Everyone has told me to leave it alone but they are breaking their promise. they said they would cancel summer camp this year if there weren't more people or the money to hire teachers. they haven't done it and i'm remaining silent but i'm not sure if that is what God wants me to do or if I'm just avoiding more conflict.
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Jullianna
Guest
Thinking back to college days (when the world and the fems whisper so loudly in a young lady's ears), I recall struggling with this issue. It helped to look at it through spiritual eyes rather than fleshly, prideful eyes. The Church and marriage are examples of our relationship with Christ (both male and female). Christ is the head and we are the body/Bride. We can't trample over Christ to get to the Father (and since Jesus is our Beloved, I can't imagine why anyone should want to). Men in the church are to be examples of Christlike behavior: strong, protective leaders who lead in LOVE. We women are to show the men how to be the Bride of Christ: submissive and humble (even when we don't like it or want to be. Ha ha). Once we get this down in our spirits, it's really a thing of beauty.
Not that you care but, hey, I'm okay with both.
I'm fine with two gay men getting married by a female preacher lol
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Jullianna
Guest
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Mark777
Guest
While everyone has an opinion and God Hiimself has enabled us to make that choice, it is not our opinions that will ultimately prevail. To be pleasing to God, we need to have our mind renewed. "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you my prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."
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Mark777
Guest
We're a bit off topic for this post. In 22 years of church life I have seen all sorts of ridiculous and unscriptural pratices. One thing has always been a constant; if the church leadership does not want to address an issue, you are wasting your time trying to change things from the bottom of the pile. No church fellowship is perfect, we are all a work in progress, but if things are so bad you can not work with the leadership of the church, the only option is to get out. By nature, the culture of a church flows from the top down.
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Lalilo
Guest
In this equal rights world, were women can go to war if they want. Women are becoming more masculine and men are becoming more feminine. What is the state of love? Ask yourselves guys are you more attracted to a picture of a model in a dress from the sixties or a model in a pair of trousers from the 21st century. We are losing the natural order of the Lion and the lioness. Women are deciding to have careers over children. God wasn't kidding when he said “If you eat from the tree of knowledge you will certainly die". Mankind as God designed us is dying.
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EternalSpring
Guest
tbh, I think the topic of "laws allowing gay marriage being okay" in respect to Christianity is illogical. Why is this even tied to Christianity? The country and it's laws are most certainly not based on Christianity (this should be obvious). Why do I say this? Because if Christianity views marriage as "Holy" matrimony that's confirmed by God then we can also say that by the same Christian standard that "Hindu/Buddhist/Jain/(insert non Christian religion here)" marriages are also not "okay." However, no one really pays attention to it from that aspect.
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EternalSpring
Guest
Also, regarding females in Ministry, despite the verse talking about females being silent, we also see Paul talking about women who were indeed evangelizing and leading as well as talking about the Holy Spirit working through all men and women. This would mean that women can minister just as well. Even with the verse about women being silent in the church, it can be said that the Church does not represent the boundaries of ministry (if anything it's closer to the starting point).
However, just to throw in my 2 cents on women in the church, I think that the spirit of submissiveness which comes from the grace of the Holy Spirit should keep it so that leadership positions in general dont have as much power as people would think. When the spirit speaks, all people will (or at least should) listen regardless of their position. In the same way, not every man can be a leader as well. Not every one can be a deacon, or worship leader/sing, or speaker, etc. But like the spirit said through Paul, all the parts are still important in the body of Christ and this entire body is still under Christ and his will. Under this view, it shouldn't be common (or happen at all) that the spirit speaks through a woman and a male pastor simply ignores it saying "quiet down woman."
However, just to throw in my 2 cents on women in the church, I think that the spirit of submissiveness which comes from the grace of the Holy Spirit should keep it so that leadership positions in general dont have as much power as people would think. When the spirit speaks, all people will (or at least should) listen regardless of their position. In the same way, not every man can be a leader as well. Not every one can be a deacon, or worship leader/sing, or speaker, etc. But like the spirit said through Paul, all the parts are still important in the body of Christ and this entire body is still under Christ and his will. Under this view, it shouldn't be common (or happen at all) that the spirit speaks through a woman and a male pastor simply ignores it saying "quiet down woman."
Do you really want to go there?
The string you pull today might have been in the sweater you wanted to wear tomorrow.
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Jullianna
Guest
There's a huge difference between a godly marriage (God's/grace) and a civil union (Caesar's/the law), but that's a subject for another thread. Don't want to derail this one. 
Would someone like to create another one re: this topic?
Would someone like to create another one re: this topic?
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Rheod
Guest
i dont understand does that mean God thinks i am stupid :'(. Why cant i learn. God made radical women like Ruth, Deborah and Anna I am soo confused.
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Jullianna
Guest
No, God does not think you are stupid. The woman you named were all amazing, but they are of the Old Covenant (the Law..which cannot save us). We are women of the New Covenant and our instructions lie in the New Testament. We can certainly learn, minister and share wisdom, and MUST share the gospel with others, we simply are not to be in headship over the men in the church.
Remember, Ruth humbled herself at Boaz's feet.
And Deborah was indeed a judge in the old system, but she was only given the victory by default, as the man would not obey. Unfortunately, in many households today, the same thing is happening. Some men will not be the spiritual heads of their homes and leave things like prayer and teaching the children about the things of God to their wives. We must pray for change in this regard. It will strengthen our families and the Church.
The woman you named were all amazing, but they are of the Old Covenant (the Law..which cannot save us). We are women of the New Covenant and our instructions lie in the New Testament. We can certainly learn, minister and share wisdom, and MUST share the gospel with others, we simply are not to be in headship over the men in the church. Remember, Ruth humbled herself at Boaz's feet.
And Deborah was indeed a judge in the old system, but she was only given the victory by default, as the man would not obey. Unfortunately, in many households today, the same thing is happening. Some men will not be the spiritual heads of their homes and leave things like prayer and teaching the children about the things of God to their wives. We must pray for change in this regard. It will strengthen our families and the Church.
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Rheod
Guest
i feel so confused and hurt. i am fine with the whole women not becoming minister, however my aunt my quiet little one day day in church felt God tell her to open her mouth and the preach.
i am happy to be humble towards a man however, i am not going to be his slave/servant. for eaxmple if I am to rely on my husband to teach me the bible why shud i read it and also what if he is wrong. i need to pray
i am happy to be humble towards a man however, i am not going to be his slave/servant. for eaxmple if I am to rely on my husband to teach me the bible why shud i read it and also what if he is wrong. i need to pray
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EternalSpring
Guest
There's a huge difference between a godly marriage (God's/grace) and a civil union (Caesar's/the law), but that's a subject for another thread. Don't want to derail this one.
I think it's a pretty good topic for discussion, and I think it's a shame that many people link a Godly marriage in Christianity to a "civil union." For one, it distorts the image of Christianity and it's doctrines to the public. It makes me wonder how "gay marriage" is bad because of God's word but the porn industry is legal and growing stronger by the day. It makes me question what does that show us about people's overall understanding/education on God's word and it's application?
buuut, I'm not going to start the new thread because I'm relatively new. Noobs starting those types of threads in their first few days is again my forum code of survival ^^
Do confuse the things of God and paint them with shades of legality. We live in a Democracy of people that vote on legislation based on their morals and interpretation of the law. The end product of this long and polarized deliberation is a moral conflaguration unfit for consumption.
As Christians though we live in a society and have our effect upon it. It is not ours and neither are its rules. We do not live by a standard that says that Gay Marriage, Civil Unions, Adultery, Pornography or any of the things which occur in the world are equal with the practices that occur amongst our people.
Nothing is ever equal. To call one thing equal with another is to do a disservice to both the things being compared as well as the good sense of the person who compares these things.
For example: God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because it was full of liars.