A
arlev
Guest
I've never maintained that I'm always correct. We're talking about legalism and the observance of external law. To follow that is to forsake Christ.
Fig leaf Christianity
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
arlev
Guest
I've already quoted the promise of the New Covenant from the Old Testament that's quoted in the New. That's all you're going to get. If you don't believe that Scripture, you won't believe anything I could say or anything I could point you towards. As I've said elsewhere, I've spent a lot of time with legalists like yourself and it's a waste of time - you don't want to accept the Scriptures, you have your own belief system that denies the New Covenant.
And there are so many like you around. I pity you. You don't know freedom in Christ and you can never know the depth of the meaning of Scripture.
Really feel sorry for you - but only God can help you.
I think that it is very good to be willing to reexamine the Bible from a fresh perspective.
I agree up as a Baptist being taught to have a negative view of obeying the Law of Moses. However, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying the Law of Moses, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so I eventually realized that if I was going to continue to believe that the Psalms are Scripture, then I needed to also believe that they express a correct view of obey it. For example, in Psalm 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so I could not continue to believe in the truth of those words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape my view of obeying the Law of Moses.
Moreover, the Apostles quoted from the Psalms our 100 times in order to support what they were saying, so they should be interpreted in light of the fact that they were in agreement with the Psalms, especially because Paul also said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God (Romans 7:22), which reoriented how I interpreted the Apostles and opened by eyes to how I had been interpreting them as expressing views that were contrary to what they considered to be Scripture. For example, it doesn't work to take the position that the Apostles thought that Psalm 19:7-11 accurately describes the Law of Moses while also thinking that they thought that it was a heavy legalistic burden that no one can bear. So I became aware of my biases and how I had been systematically interpreting the Apostles with a negative slant towards obeying the Mosaic Law.
Do you think that God is more pleased by obedience or by disobedience?
A
arlev
Guest
I don't know if you realise it, but I'm not reading your replies. By all means keep posting them if you feel you should but you need revelation from the Holy Spirit and not reasoned arguments.
Hope you enjoy your observance to the Torah. It must be a consolation to you. But it isn't serving Christ.
You're not even listening. I read scripture just like you and if I conclude something different then you your assumption is you're right and I'm wrong. I have no problem with that as I may be wrong but you need to show me that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. I know you think it is but that's not evidence of anything and your thinly veiled anger is "pity" is telling.
A
arlev
Guest
If you wish to respond again, please feel free. You'll have the final word. I shan't be responding in this thread. You need the freedom that Christ won us. Arguments and discussion won't help you. You need revelation.
I couldn't agree more but unless you can show that what you're saying is authoritative why would I listen to you? My eternal soul is at risk and you think I should throw in with you because you said so? Your anger and refusal to talk speaks volumes to me.
You opened up about your background so I did the same. How is it that you want to say that you are open to change and you want to accuse me of being so bound in my way of thinking that I can never be reasoned with when you won't even read my replies?
In Jeremiah Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hears. The Torah contains 613 commandments, so why would anyone who doesn't want to obey them want to come under the New Covenant?They believe the 613 laws are written on man's heart
If we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would have no value but the fact that repentance has value means that we are not required to have perfect obedience.
Your assertion that 613 commandments are written on our hearts is patently ridiculous. <= long story short...
You can deny the truth of Jeremiah 31:33 if you want, but I believe it.
A New Covenant is not the Old Covenant... silly you!
Obedience what? To the letter that kills? I obey the leading of the Life of Jesus in me. He does not lead me back to bondage to the law that caused my downfall in the first place. The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets me free from the law of sins and death.
David is such a wonderful example. Psalm 119, he hid God's word in his heart so that he would not sin. That is so far fetched that I do not believe David realised what he was saying. Psalm 119 refers to Jesus, a messianic psalm. David? He was a murdering adulterer who neglected his family. Sure, he was forgiven. That is not the point. The law had no power to change David even though he agreed with it 100%. We need new life and a new covenant. If obeying the Law was enough, Jesus died for nothing.
Except its not even possible. How about burning the house down if they get a contagious illness? I don't know if insurance would cover that. And arson is a criminal offence. Animal sacrifice? OK, I eat beef every week. Does that count? Some like to differentiate between the Levitical law and the 10 commandments. I see nowhere that the Bible directly states that. I know one thing for sure. Self righteous legalists are miserable and will only be content when they make everyone else miserable as well.They believe the 613 laws are written on man's heart
A
arlev
Guest
There do appear to be distinctions in the Pentateuch. The ten commandments would be 'categorical law', the foundations of societal harmony. The rules that follow these in Exodus read more like judicial guidelines. And then there are the levitical regulations which deal more with the maintenance and continuation of the nation's relationship with God. But some passages aren't so clear cut (and there are probably parts that can be categorised in other ways).
But it foreshadowed the Christ, it echoed the One who was to come - as you already know. When I open the feasts, for example, in Lev 23, I see God's timeline in human history. I see God's promises in Christ.
When I read God commanding the Israelites not to sin, I hear God telling me that He's empowering me not to sin. I hear the commandments as promises - written within, empowered by the Holy Spirit, fulfilled in Christ in me.
We don't follow the external written code that condemns and kills - we live in the promise and walk in the fulfilment. We're no longer sinners, we're saints - obedient to God through the presence of the power of the resurrection (and don't forget the ascension, of course
).Sorry - going on a bit. It's a shame that we don't get high on the fulfilment but have to deal with the idea that we're gathered round Moses at Sinai all over again.