Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

ieuan · Dec 2, 2019

Not only is it good to boast of salvation in Christ here is the Canons of Dordt
explaining why we can have confidence that we are Elect of God.

2nd Heading of Doctrine - Article 5 Moreover, the promise of the gospel is, that whosoever
believeth in Christ crucified, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. This promise,
together with the command to repent and believe, ought to be declared and published
to all nations, and to all persons promiscuously and without distinction, to whom God
out of His good pleasure sends the gospel.

There are two points here:

1. are to trust that we are saved by faith

2. we are to preach the gospel to ALL men indisctriminately (wicked and saved)

ieuan · Dec 2, 2019

Not only is it good to boast of salvation in Christ here is the Canons of Dordt (1565)
explaining why we can have confidence that we are Elect of God.

"2nd Heading of Doctrine - Of the Death of Christ and the Redemption of Men Thereby

Article 5
Moreover, the promise of the gospel is, that whosoever
believeth in Christ crucified, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. This promise,
together with the command to repent and believe, ought to be declared and published
to all nations, and to all persons promiscuously and without distinction, to whom God
out of His good pleasure sends the gospel."

There are two points here:

1. are to trust that we are saved by faith

2. we are to preach the gospel to ALL men indisctriminately (wicked and saved)

Why shouldn't a Christian boast in Christ Jesus, that he is saved from sin, that he will go
to heaven. Not all so-called Calvinists or Arminians or any other branch of the church
go to heaven because the Lord said, 'I never knew you.'

There are people who hate the Lord today, but before judgement will claim
they are Christians, the Lord will say to them 'I never knew you.'
I certainly don't believe all men will go to heaven who are in the church today
in fact ministers constantly warn the congregations to examine themselves
to see where they stand before God, warning of the penalty of not having faith,
warning of hell and damnation.

I don't believe all in this site are born again, many display a hatred of God's people
and that is very sad. You know what I do for people who hate me and revile me
I pray for them, yes, I pray for them to be saved.

You see men are commanded by God to repent and believe
to refuse this is to bring down condemnation on heads.
That is why it is our duty to witness to ALL men at all times.

Note: please excuse double post I ran out of time when editing.

Ghoti2 · Dec 2, 2019

Why is it that no matter where you look, men seem to always be craving for some set of further "laws" they can subject themselves to? It wasn't enough when thousands of years ago people wanted more than God gave them, and they demanded: "Give us a king!"

garee · Dec 3, 2019

Butterflyyy said:

Thanks for the reply.

No offence, sorry. I would think we do consider, its called bias everyone has one. Or called a heresy and opinion .Or as a "sect" a group of persons that share a common foundation in a hope of sharing how they say they hear the gospel. You could say preach the gospel as a kingdom of priests as believers.

As many as received (a verb) describes those alone who heard the gospel as the Spirit of Christ worked in them giving them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. . . working in them to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. ( Philippians 2:12-13)

Interestingly right after he shares that good news in Philippians2 he commands us no murmuring. I would think that's a mystery.?

It was not of their own faith as the witness of man in experrnceing their first love. . . hearing God. . But of a greater witness than that of man. That of God. The witness we return to when we do fall. His working in us the. . . . first work.

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

garee · Dec 3, 2019

Whispered said:

Yes, God predestined those whom the Father gave him.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Butterflyyy · Dec 3, 2019

garee said:

Thanks for the reply.

No offence, sorry. I would think we do consider, its called bias everyone has one. Or called a heresy and opinion .Or as a "sect" a group of persons that share a common foundation in a hope of sharing how they say they hear the gospel. You could say preach the gospel as a kingdom of priests as believers.

As many as received (a verb) describes those alone who heard the gospel as the Spirit of Christ worked in them giving them ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. . . working in them to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. ( Philippians 2:12-13)

Interestingly right after he shares that good news in Philippians2 he commands us no murmuring. I would think that's a mystery.?

It was not of their own faith as the witness of man in experrnceing their first love. . . hearing God. . But of a greater witness than that of man. That of God. The witness we return to when we do fall. His working in us the. . . . first work.

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

It always seems to be the case that Calvinists use verses that are about the Christian's WALK and apply them to the initial experience of opening the door of their heart to Christ.

7seasrekeyed · Dec 3, 2019

"ieuan, post: 4093007, member: 284561"]People condemn other to hell all the time.

yeah....so?

I realise I have no power to do that, I am making the point that i don't do that.
Hell and judgement are for Christ.

Christians who are not sure about their salvation lack assurance.

do you think throwing Calvin's unbiblical doctrine of regeneration before salvation is going to help?
and sorry, but yes, if you are unsure, you are unsure...telling someone you are not saved if you have not been regenerated is sure to help with that...haha...joking...it will actually make things worse

The Elect of God are all those who believe on the Lord Jesus, there is nothing wrong
and there is much good in a Christian stating categorically that he believs he is saved
by the power of the Lord, by faith, nothing wrong in that.

I have every sympathy for the man who lacks assurance it shows he is alive.
You know no one kicks a dead dog. Why, because he's dead. The people who are
dead in sin don't care, the man who is cats don about his state is alive and there
is hope for that man.

cats don?

I quote from the Cannons of Dord here:
1st Head of Doctrine- Predestination - article 16 [regarding assurance]

oh please already with the Dord renderings

do you simply agree with scripture or is everything needing to be Dorded in order for you to believe?

"Those who do not yet experience a lively faith in Christ, an assured confidence of soul, peace of conscience, an earnest endeavour after filial obedience, and glorying in God through Christ, efficaciously wrought in them, and do nevertheless persist in the use of the means which God hath appointed for working these graces in us, ought not to be alarmed at the mention of reprobation, nor to rank themselves among the reprobate, but diligently to persevere in the use of means, and with ardent desires devoutly and humbly to wait for a season of richer grace. Much less cause have they to be terrified by the doctrine of reprobation, who, though they seriously desire to be turned to God, to please Him only, and to be delivered from the body of death, cannot yet reach that measure of holiness and faith to which they aspire; since a merciful God has promised that He will not quench the smoking flax nor break the bruised reed. But this doctrine is justly terrible to those, who, regardless of God and of the Saviour Jesus Christ, have wholly given themselves up to the cares of the world and the pleasures of the flesh, so long as they are not seriously converted to God."

This artcle surely gives confidence to the trembling soul
that he should persevere in holiness and wait pateintly for
God to give the advance he so earnestly desires.

nah

scripture is what actually explains our salvation and our security in the L

7seasrekeyed · Dec 3, 2019

Butterflyyy said:

does sound familiar

telling people regeneration occurs PRIOR to salvation is so absurd you cannot wrap your head around it and yet that is what is taught...what Calvin taught and some still seem to believe

of course, in order to exercise a god who acts as puppet master, I guess you would have to think you are forced to salvation by being 'regenerated' while still in your state of sin

smh

ieuan · Dec 3, 2019

7seasrekeyed
You don't have to be here if you don't want to be, but we are discussing the heading
the Remonstrance. Christian history is interesting yes?

I will actually psot as many sections of the Remonstrance and the Canons of Dordt as is necessary to
eplain. As to the omplaint that you only use scripture, I have posted scripture Romans 13 and that
defines the Doctrine of God.

If I am upsetting you, you have my permission to go elsewhere, with my blessing.

7seasrekeyed · Dec 3, 2019

ieuan said:

oh you go right ahead

and I will also post as many truths from scripture about salvation as I want

Dordt is not in scripture...it is only a presentation of disagreement of what someone else said

Jesus is in scripture

men seem to love to take authority over the word instead of the other way round

Definition of remonstrance. 1 : an earnest presentation of reasons for opposition or grievance especially : a document formally stating such points. 2 : an act or instance of remonstrating.

I don't use only scripture. I also post articles that truth taken from scripture

garee · Dec 3, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

Not prior but during the work of salvation, as salvation . He will finish it till the end. (Philippians 1:6)

I don't think he forces anyone but gently moves them . . .Let there be and there was. a new creature working in them to both will and perform his good pleasure.

As sons of God what we are is not what we will be. The accuser of the brethren who would encourage mankind to believe they are not a robots just because God created us to the will the will of another. It was Satan's same thought also .I am not a robot . I will be like God.

When we shed these bodies of death that lust after the things of this world. . the accusing day and night will end .Its all about perspective I would think . Tomorrow another day (I hope)

Was Peter a robot under the puppet master ? I think his puppet mater should remain behind ours. No man can serve two.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:22-23

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy.

ieuan · Dec 3, 2019

7seasrekeyed
Just a gentle reminder, the thread heading is: The Remonstrance

Scripture is primary, always, yet strangely to you mabe
the thread is headed The Remonstrance.

Whispered · Dec 3, 2019

garee said:

True in that an all knowing eternally present wholly holy powerful creator of all things would know who would accept His free irrevocable grace and Salvation. This does not mean God pre-appointed those persons to be saved, and conversely chose whom He would not save. It means God's foreknowledge is what led to His edict; whosoever.

The Book of John chapter 3.
Whosoever, whoever, believeth in Him. The antonym for Whoever is, nobody. And we here know that that isn't the case.

Whispered · Dec 3, 2019

ieuan said:

Just a FYI.

Remonstrance: re•mon•strance rĭ-mŏn′strənsnoun
an act or instance of remonstrating.
a protest: deaf to remonstrances.

ieuan · Dec 3, 2019

7seasrekeyed said
"regeneration occurs PRIOR to salvation is so absurd you cannot wrap your head around"

I find through my studies that salvation consists in stages

1. the imparting of the new heart by God - born again of the spirit

2. the conversion of a sinner, i.e. the turning around from sin and embracing Christ Jesus. This includes repentance in faith

3. the sanctification of the former sinner, i.e. growing in holiness man never reaches perfect holiness before death

4. glorification of the former sinner, in heaven, perfected in Christ and joining the heavenly choir

Then eternity with Christ awaiting the resurrection of our bodies forever, praise God through Jesus Chrst

ieuan · Dec 3, 2019

For those who wish only scripture here is a piece of scripture to consider:

"Romans 9 (NASB)
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies
with me in the Holy Spirit,

for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything
good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not
because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her,
“The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau
I hated

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 So then it does not depend on the man
who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing moulded
will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not
the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel
for honorable use and another for common use?

22 . . . which He prepared beforehand
for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called,"

It seems clear from Romans 9 that God c hooses men before the foundation of the world (vs 22)

PREPARED BEFORE HAND.

Even though Paul is speaking primarily about the Jews it refers to all me,
God chooses and changes our hearts without permission.

Once we are changed with the new heart we convert, we turn around.
I will admit in Paul conversion it does seem there is a simultaneous
1 and 2, Born again and conversion.

For sanctification Paul was taken into the desert of Damascus to be taught of the HS
even though Paul was a Pharisee and knew the scriptures inside out, verse by verse,
he needed to be taught the correct interpretation of the scripture by the HS.

Locoponydirtman · Dec 3, 2019

How is there any doubt about the rotten state of the unregenerate?

I find that article 5 is the sticking point for me. While it may be true to the extent of what is called open and overt sin, this body of sin and death will indeed die because of sin. No not one person can say at any one moment that they are with out sin. Because even when we do good sin is there staining the good work, as a filthy rag. Even rising from the alter of repentance, some selfishness, some pride, or wantonness immediately occurs even in the mind.

7seasrekeyed · Dec 3, 2019

ieuan said:

did it seem I needed to be reminded?

I was actually reminding you of scripture

7seasrekeyed · Dec 3, 2019

Whispered said:

yeeaah....

I already put that in my post

like so:

Remonstrance: re•mon•strance rĭ-mŏn′strənsnoun
an act or instance of remonstrating.
a protest: deaf to remonstrances.

Whispered · Dec 3, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

OK, but mine was linked to a Dictionary site.

Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

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