FLAT EARTH

[theLastEndWatcher]

Last I checked (about 12 months or so ago), Kent Hovind was too scared to debate Rob Skiba on the scriptural merits of Ball-Earth over Flat Earth. I find it highly doubtful he has progressed since then.

Claiming Kent was able to demolish Flat Earth when he is too fearful to debate is the same as claiming Richard Dawkins destroyed the Design argument for Creation with one of his monologues.

There's the video where he does it. At least the one I watched.
As for saying someone is "too scared" to debate someone... I'd have to see proof he was scared. Or it might also just simply be that he had other things to do with his time nor did he wish to waste his time. That assumption gets bandied around far too often these days as an insult and self preening by the one who makes the challenge and is refused.

 

[Moses_Young]

There's the video where he does it. At least the one I watched.
As for saying someone is "too scared" to debate someone... I'd have to see proof he was scared. Or it might also just simply be that he had other things to do with his time nor did he wish to waste his time. That assumption gets bandied around far too often these days as an insult and self preening by the one who makes the challenge and is refused.

Okay, so I did some digging, and for whatever reason, Kent Hovind was unprepared to debate Flat Earth on biblical grounds. If someone has time to make 1 hour monologues reportedly refuting something but has insufficient time to debate, that's a sign they would lose the debate (ergo Richard Dawkins and his fear of creationists).

So as the heliocentrist apologist (Kent Hovind) lost by default, Rob Skiba (Flat Earther) debated Robert Sungenis (geocentrist). Here are some comments on that debate.

https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-...centrism/robert-sungenis-to-debate-rob-skiba/

"Watching the debate now. Halfway through and Skiba definitely has the upper hand. He's very literate and knowledgeable, confident and easily understood. Sungenis unfortunately starts from a place of tremendous weakness. He argues the Bible is too difficult to understand. Terrible "strategy." "

"A lot of sophistry from Sungenis. Very disappointing."

"Sungenis says book of Apocalypse is only figurative, not literal, and that the stars will not literally fall to earth and impact the earth because the stars are too big. Again, he picks and chooses which Bible verses are literal to fit his personal cosmology. Very embarrassing that the Catholic functions like a Protestant, while Skiba adheres to the literal truth. The win belongs to Rob Skiba."

Lol. So Kent the Heliocentrist loses to the Sungeis the Geocentrist by default (too scared to show up). Then the Flat Earther defeats the Geocentrist in honourable debate.

 

[GaryA]

https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-...centrism/robert-sungenis-to-debate-rob-skiba/

I did not find on that web page a link pointing to the actual video. Perhaps, I am just blind?

 

[theLastEndWatcher]

Okay, so I did some digging, and for whatever reason, Kent Hovind was unprepared to debate Flat Earth on biblical grounds. If someone has time to make 1 hour monologues reportedly refuting something but has insufficient time to debate, that's a sign they would lose the debate (ergo Richard Dawkins and his fear of creationists).

So as the heliocentrist apologist (Kent Hovind) lost by default, Rob Skiba (Flat Earther) debated Robert Sungenis (geocentrist). Here are some comments on that debate.

https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-...centrism/robert-sungenis-to-debate-rob-skiba/

"Watching the debate now. Halfway through and Skiba definitely has the upper hand. He's very literate and knowledgeable, confident and easily understood. Sungenis unfortunately starts from a place of tremendous weakness. He argues the Bible is too difficult to understand. Terrible "strategy." "

"A lot of sophistry from Sungenis. Very disappointing."

"Sungenis says book of Apocalypse is only figurative, not literal, and that the stars will not literally fall to earth and impact the earth because the stars are too big. Again, he picks and chooses which Bible verses are literal to fit his personal cosmology. Very embarrassing that the Catholic functions like a Protestant, while Skiba adheres to the literal truth. The win belongs to Rob Skiba."

Lol. So Kent the Heliocentrist loses to the Sungeis the Geocentrist by default (too scared to show up). Then the Flat Earther defeats the Geocentrist in honourable debate.

Could be. Or maybe creating a presentation stating your side of the argument and then letting the viewers decide for themselves is also a fair way of doing things.
I think it depends on how many people you want to debate on the same topic over and over again too.

 

[Moses_Young]

I did not find on that web page a link pointing to the actual video. Perhaps, I am just blind?

Or perhaps I didn't link properly?

Anyway, the debate is here. I haven't watched all, but the "uneducated" Flat Earther is really beating doctor Geocentrist, in the half I've viewed. Also very worthwhile to note, Kent Hovind didn't even dare to show up to defend heliocentrism. Not one to be shy of a debate, the only logical conclusion one can reach from this is that Kent is onto a loser when he chose Heliocentrism over Flat Earth (or even Geocentrism).

Could be. Or maybe creating a presentation stating your side of the argument and then letting the viewers decide for themselves is also a fair way of doing things.
I think it depends on how many people you want to debate on the same topic over and over again too.

Proverbs 18:17 The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

Kent has never debated Flat Earth, 'cause he knows he will lose.

 

[Child0fYAHUAH]

Not sure if this has been covered yet or not. too many posts for me to read.
Go to the official NASA website, then click on the Apollo moon missions & look
at their pictures of the Lunar lander. If that pile of card board, tin foil & curtain rods
landed on the moon then I am invincible. A group of middle school kids could have
built something better in a school science project.

 

[PC123]

@Moses_Young @GaryA ... Hey guys. you remind me of papa smurf in that picture Gary... hehehe...

Something in the back of my mind keeps knocking at the door saying that something is wrong here...
Iv tried to ignore it but it won't leave me alone and it gets louder when i link up all the anti-Christ movements and theories that have been devised specifically to separate us from God; ToE, covid, climate change, this Marxist takeover, etc...

Motives... First there is separation of people from any notion of God. The Vatican had lost its grip by 1,800 AD when the "enlightenment" was already sweeping Europe. It was a clear effort in trying to make excuses to cover God... B4 that when Rome ruled Europe, i don't know but certainly from the 18th century there is the clear beginnings of a separation from God...

One big modern motive is NASA and money... The more they can keep this lie going the more funding they receive... The get over 50 million dollars for each photoshopped picture of earth... Clear motive there that is big enough to try and hide

Gone is the nation vs nation view now. I see a battle of classes; super rich elites vs the rest and we're loosing the battle. I trust no politician, left or right, they're all false prophets, distracting us... Now, if they wanted to control us why would they give us the truth... Its like having a pet bird in an open cage, the bird will eventually fly away...

And so im feeling like a caged bird.. There is something else out there that we can't see, knowledge that is being withheld

I feel like we truly are stationary but i can't prove it. Iv started to look more at people experiments, observations and their conclusion...
Are we a stationary sphere... Well they can see Chicago across the great lake when it shouldn't be visible.
One guy shows that when the ship starts to go over the horizon he pulls out binocuklars and u can see the whole ship again. The again as it dips over the horizon he pulls out a telescope and once again u can see the whole ship again... Its a compelling experiment that cannot be explained by helio trigonometry...

Are you guys familiar with the standard of evidence used in law? Civil law uses the balance of probability, the case that is most probable wins. But in criminal law the crime must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Thats the standard im using.

And so iv thought about how to find some objective data for myself. The plane routes in the southern hemisphere bug me cos although i can find evidence of a non stop flight i can't really confirm it... or can i...

What if i contact travel agent and identify a flight that claims to be non stop from Melbourne to south America. I live close to the airport so i would go there on the day, try find the flight, gate number... From there i would go to the check in and talk to people boarding that flight, crew and passengers...

If i was to find such a flight, spoke to crew and passengers and watched it take off then that would be a fairly firm piece of evidence that the flat earth model is wrong the way it is understood. It still wouldn't rule out a flat earth that is mapped differently in my mind...

What do u guys think about that idea?

There are a few other things that could happen. The travel agent might tell me that i have to make a stop at LAX or something first. In that case i would refer to something i read on the Qantas website that said there where non stop flights... See if she can locate these flights... She might say only from Sydney which would end any chance i had of getting objective evidence unless i went to Sydney...

If you have any suggestions on improving the experiment or investigation then please chip in...

 

[PC123]

There's the video where he does it. At least the one I watched.
As for saying someone is "too scared" to debate someone... I'd have to see proof he was scared. Or it might also just simply be that he had other things to do with his time nor did he wish to waste his time. That assumption gets bandied around far too often these days as an insult and self preening by the one who makes the challenge and is refused.

Hmmm Kent Hovind... I am a fan of him. He helped me get out of the evolution bubble. Ive watched tons of his talks and debates
about the error of evolution, never head him talk about this... He makes some very compelling arguments for the helio model... Furthermore he makes the suggestion that the flat earth theory was purposely planted by the evil one in order to create division... Hmmm

 

[GaryA]

And so iv thought about how to find some objective data for myself. The plane routes in the southern hemisphere bug me cos although i can find evidence of a non stop flight i can't really confirm it2... or can i...

I am assuming that you really mean evidence of an advertised non-stop flight?

If i was to find such a flight, spoke to crew and passengers and watched it take off then that would be a fairly firm piece of evidence that the flat earth model is wrong the way it is understood. It still wouldn't rule out a flat earth that is mapped differently in my mind...

How are you going to confirm the actual flight path, speed, and time from start to finish by only watching it take off?

What do u guys think about that idea?

Honestly, I don't think it will serve much in terms of 'proof' if you are not able to track the flight personally in a way that will verify the flight path, speed, and time.

If you have any suggestions on improving the experiment or investigation then please chip in...

I came up with a different travel-based idea a while back:

https://christianchat.com/conspirac...at-the-earth-is-flat-and-not-a-sphere.141216/

 

[PC123]

How are you going to confirm the actual flight path, speed, and time from start to finish by only watching it take off?

Honestly, I don't think it will serve much in terms of 'proof' if you are not able to track the flight personally in a way that will verify the flight path, speed, and time.

Well, multiple testimonies that corroborate is very good evidence in a criminal court...
Time, speed and flight path??? Hmmm just to get there non stop is out of range on the flat earth model...
They would need bigger fuel tanks but then the time... You would need to go about 50% faster than cruise speed when their only able to go about 15% faster because those planes aren't designed to handle supersonic speeds...

I haven't looked at you plan yet... Gonna eat and come back a bit later to have a look

 

[PC123]

I came up with a different travel-based idea a while back:

Travel based idea... Equipment
Reference beacon
Directional receiver
Directional transmitter

Can u fund it? If so then u need to make your way to the equator to plant the beacon and catch your plane/ship.

But do u reckon they will accept? Test? Or reject?

 

[Moses_Young]

@Moses_Young @GaryA ... Hey guys. you remind me of papa smurf in that picture Gary... hehehe...

I feel like we truly are stationary but i can't prove it. Iv started to look more at people experiments, observations and their conclusion...
Are we a stationary sphere... Well they can see Chicago across the great lake when it shouldn't be visible.
One guy shows that when the ship starts to go over the horizon he pulls out binocuklars and u can see the whole ship again. The again as it dips over the horizon he pulls out a telescope and once again u can see the whole ship again... Its a compelling experiment that cannot be explained by helio trigonometry...

Are you guys familiar with the standard of evidence used in law? Civil law uses the balance of probability, the case that is most probable wins. But in criminal law the crime must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Thats the standard im using.

And so iv thought about how to find some objective data for myself. The plane routes in the southern hemisphere bug me cos although i can find evidence of a non stop flight i can't really confirm it... or can i...

What if i contact travel agent and identify a flight that claims to be non stop from Melbourne to south America. I live close to the airport so i would go there on the day, try find the flight, gate number... From there i would go to the check in and talk to people boarding that flight, crew and passengers...

If i was to find such a flight, spoke to crew and passengers and watched it take off then that would be a fairly firm piece of evidence that the flat earth model is wrong the way it is understood. It still wouldn't rule out a flat earth that is mapped differently in my mind...

What do u guys think about that idea?

I think it's difficult territory trying to deduce the shape of the Earth using flight paths, as you are relying on maps, flight speeds etc. which are presumably based on heliocentric Earth. The best I have seen are the laser experiments, where they are able to shine a laser some 6km or so across a still or frozen lake, without it going into the sky (as would happen if the lake was curved, rather than flat). The experiment is still very small scale, but in my mind is one of the better proofs the Earth is flat. A military grade laser presumably would provide better evidence (i.e. by being usable across greater distances), but the experiment gets more difficult and expensive.

You could ask a pilot if he has to divert the nose of his plane downward to counteract the curvature of the Earth (they don't, as there is no curvature). However, if there was curvature, and the pilot didn't direct the plane downward, it would be climbing ever higher.

The Flat Earth model cannot (in my view) adequately explain the motion of the heavenly bodies, so anything utilising these as a proof or partial-proof struggles (to my mind). Heliocentricity also has its flaws with the heavenly bodies, but as heliocentric theory has been around so long, there are well-entrenched excuses for where it fails (such as the Earth wobbling). The book of Enoch apparently talks about portals in the Heavens which the sun travels through, and I've no idea how these would work, but if the book of Enoch is inspired and therefore the description of the portals is true, this would mean all solely-geometrical efforts to prove Flat Earth using the heavenly bodies would be likely to fail.

Hmmm Kent Hovind... I am a fan of him. He helped me get out of the evolution bubble. Ive watched tons of his talks and debates
about the error of evolution, never head him talk about this... He makes some very compelling arguments for the helio model... Furthermore he makes the suggestion that the flat earth theory was purposely planted by the evil one in order to create division... Hmmm

He's inconsistent in his reasoning.

Kent Hovind accepts Creation because God says so - it's in the bible. He then goes on to find the science that supports this, and it does. Full points here.

However, he adopts a different approach with Flat Earth. He tries to find the science that supports heliocentricity, and uses this to interpret what the bible says. This is the opposite approach to that he uses for Creation, and it is the wrong approach (also inconsistent). This is why he wouldn't debate Rob Skiba on the shape of the Earth (using scripture alone).

 

[theLastEndWatcher]

Or perhaps I didn't link properly?

Anyway, the debate is here. I haven't watched all, but the "uneducated" Flat Earther is really beating doctor Geocentrist, in the half I've viewed. Also very worthwhile to note, Kent Hovind didn't even dare to show up to defend heliocentrism. Not one to be shy of a debate, the only logical conclusion one can reach from this is that Kent is onto a loser when he chose Heliocentrism over Flat Earth (or even Geocentrism).

Proverbs 18:17 The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

Kent has never debated Flat Earth, 'cause he knows he will lose.

To explain that proverb: It's because the person who cross examines is the one whose words are fresh in the heads of the people that are listening to the debate. That's human psychology. It's the data that's fresh in their thoughts being actively mulled over. The recent testimony of the one being examined gets moved to the back of the mind, until revisited.

As someone who works in sales that's something we use when dealing with sticker shocked clients on price.
It has nothing to do with saying that the cross examiner is always right and the first who states their case is wrong, or vice versa.

The Earth does not have to be flat to prove the Bible, nor does some giant conspiracy need to occur to tell everyone the world is round in order for them to debate against the Bible.
It's simply not necessary.
And even if the world is round, that doesn't prove the Bible false anyway.

That's the entire reasoning behind flat earth conspiracy theory. "They tell us it's round to hide the Bible being true."

u wut m8?

It's a ridiculous accusation and reason.

 

[theLastEndWatcher]

One other bit. A person can be losing a debate by being bad at presenting, but it has nothing to do with whether what they are saying is true or false.

 

[GaryA]

That's the entire reasoning behind flat earth conspiracy theory. "They tell us it's round to hide the Bible being true."

I believe the following statement would be more specific to the point:

"The reason for the Ball Earth lie is to hide God."

Of course, other things - like 'evolution' - have a part in it also.

 

[Child0fYAHUAH]

Well, multiple testimonies that corroborate is very good evidence in a criminal court...
Time, speed and flight path??? Hmmm just to get there non stop is out of range on the flat earth model...
They would need bigger fuel tanks but then the time... You would need to go about 50% faster than cruise speed when their only able to go about 15% faster because those planes aren't designed to handle supersonic speeds...

I haven't looked at you plan yet... Gonna eat and come back a bit later to have a look

Look at some documented emergency landings due to medical reasons & they also prove flat earth

 

[Child0fYAHUAH]

We've been told our ancestors were cave dwellers & not very intelligent & most sheeple believe that lie. The truth is our ancestors were bigger, smarter & much closer to God/Yahuah. Just look at all the Ancient construction all over the world & the Tech they possessed & it's evident they were smarter than us. Their buildings lasted for thousands of years & we are lucky to make one last 100 yrs. They all KNEW the world was flat & no one doubted it until around 5oo yrs ago when Capernicus introduced his THEORY, along with Newtons THEORY of gravity, THEORY of evolution, culminating in Einstein's THEORY of relativity to try to make it all work. We have been deceived! Satan is the father of deception & he is ruling this world until our Savior comes to reclaim it.

 

[PC123]

I believe the following statement would be more specific to the point:

"The reason for the Ball Earth lie is to hide God."

Of course, other things - like 'evolution' - have a part in it also.

Tried finding a non stop flight for between Feb 1 and May 1 and found nothing. But don't start celebrating cos its covid remember and if u take a look at Chile they have some of the strictest lockdowns in the world. So a logical explanation would be that no one is going there.

Even a non-stop from America is hard to find, my guess is that they would want more seats filled so they do another pick up...

They say that because half the earth is dark and half of it is in light all the time, and that this proves that flat earth is wrong.
Your respomse?

 

[Magenta]

What biblical evidence can you supply that shows that the earth was solely created to house humans?

I would think none, since flora and fauna preceded human life on earth.

 

[GaryA]

Travel based idea... Equipment
Reference beacon
Directional receiver
Directional transmitter

Can u fund it? If so then u need to make your way to the equator to plant the beacon and catch your plane/ship.

But do u reckon they will accept? Test? Or reject?

I am pretty sure it would have to be done by someone who owned (best way) or hired a private plane or boat.

And then, of course, tell as few people as possible...