Flood - worldwide or local?

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Magenta said:
God told Noah to take seven pairs of each clean animal, seven pairs of each bird, and one pair of each unclean animal. As to the people on the ark, only Noah's family was to be spared. From Genesis 6:

I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

Genesis 7:
The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
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translate 'land' instead of 'earth' and it changes the meaning considerably.
 
valiant said:
because a large flood and a global flood are two different conceptions. And we have to be careful as to what the Scripture actually says and means. My love for my brethren demands this, lest they be led astray.
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Whatever dude.

You have your BELIEF, You have your IDEA of what is truth. Yet you have shown no proof. Just your interpretation of proof.

And your doing exactly what God said not to do. Your causing division on issues which do not pertain to salvation.

You want to believe in a local flood. Your free.. STOP judging those who disagree.. You both (if you have the right gospel) will be in heaven, And it would be ashame to ruin your relationship based on things such as these.
 
And while we are at it, There is no place on earth where there is NO LIFE which breaths air.. Even the harshest land shows to have life,, no matter how small. While there may be a few isolated areas.. In order to flood all the areas. The isolated areas would be flooded also...

Which means ALL LAND is inhabited, Which means your FULL stop is not stop at all.

Now. while this may not be true, YOU CANNOT PROVE IT IS NOT!

so again, YOUR FULL STOP is destroyed.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

why bother with a local flood theory?What makes you want to attack your bretheryn just to prove a point.

I have looked at the evidence, I see prove of complete flood. Whether you see it or not does not matter. Nor would I force you or attack you if you disagree with it.

A global flood or not does not change my walk with God. My salvation or my love for my bretheryn.
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Why are you talking about attacks? This is a discussion forum. So just discuss.

Why to bother with a local flood theory?

Because - logic, common sense, geology, physics, history.

You cant get waters all above the surface of the earth and than make them dissapear again in forty days or so.
You cant have two (or 7, does not matter) ants in the whole planet to survive and multiply.
You cant have 2 penguins on the Arararat mountain and expect them to get to South Pole.
You cant have a relatively big ark shaking widly in wild waters and expect they survive without any hurt. It would also break immediately.
You cant have a global disaster like this and then have nice geological columns with simple-to-complex organisms.
You cant have a global planetary disaster few thousands years ago (most common YEC datation) when there are organisms or even human civilizations older than that.
You cant have both carnivors and herbavors in so small number and expect them both to survive and multiply. Two or seven carnivors need to eat much more frequently than two or seven herbavors can multiply.
Thousands of fish and other water creatures need specialized and isolated water to survive so flood would wiped them out all.
Astronomical number of plants would not be recovered after such events. Or did Noah take also plants to his ark?
Many exotic animals need special diet. Or did Noah got it for example koalas? How did two (or 7, does not matter) defenceless slow animals got to Australia?

And I can continue with this on and on. So thats why I bother with the local flood. Now you can tell me your reasons.
 
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trofimus said:
Why are you talking about attacks? This is a discussion forum. So just discuss.

Why to bother with a local flood theory?

Because - logic, common sense, geology, physics, history.
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That's not an attack? Tell that to the school child who you just offended, The single wife you just offended, The weak Christian you just offended.

You cant get waters all above the surface of the earth and than make them dissapear again in forty days or so.
You cant have two (or 7, does not matter) ants in the whole planet to survive and multiply.
You cant have 2 penguins on the Arararat mountain and expect them to get to South Pole.
You cant have a relatively big ark shaking widly in wild waters and expect they survive without any hurt. It would also break immediately.
You cant have a global disaster like this and then have nice geological columns with simple-to-complex organisms.
You cant have a global planetary disaster few thousands years ago (most common YEC datation) when there are organisms or even human civilizations older than that.
You cant have both carnivors and herbavors in so small number and expect them both to survive and multiply. Two or seven carnivors need to eat much more frequently than two or seven herbavors can multiply.
Thousands of fish and other water creatures need specialized and isolated water to survive so flood would wiped them out all.
Astronomical number of plants would not be recovered after such events. Or did Noah take also plants to his ark?
Many exotic animals need special diet. Or did Noah got it for example koalas?

And I can continue with this on and on. So thats why I bother with the local flood. Now you can tell me your reasons.
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Actually none of these points PROVE your position. Any more than the points I made earlier in the day prove mine,

So again, Why do you ATTACK people who disagree with you?

You are the one who does not want to discuss.

Discuss says this is what I believe and why, It does not say LOGIC COMMON sense says my way is right, insinuating the other person has none of the above.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
And while we are at it, There is no place on earth where there is NO LIFE which breaths air.. Even the harshest land shows to have life,, no matter how small. While there may be a few isolated areas.. In order to flood all the areas. The isolated areas would be flooded also...

Which means ALL LAND is inhabited, Which means your FULL stop is not stop at all.

Now. while this may not be true, YOU CANNOT PROVE IT IS NOT!

so again, YOUR FULL STOP is destroyed.
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you are getting desperate LOL
 
Originally Posted by trofimus Why are you talking about attacks? This is a discussion forum. So just discuss.

Why to bother with a local flood theory?

Because - logic, common sense, geology, physics, history
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eternally-gratefull said:
That's not an attack? Tell that to the school child who you just offended, The single wife you just offended, The weak Christian you just offended.
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I think you are just imagining it. :)
 
Because - logic, common sense, geology, physics, history.
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Since when did ANY of those things have ANY control over what Jehovah God can, or cannot do?

Biology tells us a woman cannot get pregnant without some type of intercourse... whether human or artificial... does this deny the virgin birth?

Biology tells us that once a person is dead, they do NOT come back to life. So, the resurrection is a myth?

Gravity tells us that men cannot fly (without mechanical help, of course).... so the ascension of Jesus never happened?

Your Gnosticism is showing..... stop trying to put physical, human limitations on God... the creator of the universe...
 
valiant said:
you are getting desperate LOL
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No, I am not.. I could care less what you think. Utah and Beyond believe in Young earth, do you see them attacking people? calling them illogical. or people without common sense? Of course not..

It is just a few select people. And just like with the end times debate, If someone is going to say flat out. End pf discussion, I am going to poke holes in their end of discussion comment, Not for their sake, People who say that have already closed their minds, there are no more teaching moments for them..

But for the people like the one who opened this thread, People openly seeking what people believe. That way they can hear both sides of the story, and make a decision without fear.

If anything, People who say end of story are the ones who are desperate.. If there proof was actual proof. they would never have to say end of story.

I am just plugging holes in your thought that "full stop, ie end of discussion" is plain and outright wrong, Because it can not be proven.
 
hornetguy said:
Since when did ANY of those things have ANY control over what Jehovah God can, or cannot do?

Biology tells us a woman cannot get pregnant without some type of intercourse... whether human or artificial... does this deny the virgin birth?

Biology tells us that once a person is dead, they do NOT come back to life. So, the resurrection is a myth?

Gravity tells us that men cannot fly (without mechanical help, of course).... so the ascension of Jesus never happened?

Your Gnosticism is showing..... stop trying to put physical, human limitations on God... the creator of the universe...
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miracles establish the rule
 
eternally-gratefull said:
That's not an attack? Tell that to the school child who you just offended, The single wife you just offended, The weak Christian you just offended.



Actually none of these points PROVE your position. Any more than the points I made earlier in the day prove mine,

So again, Why do you ATTACK people who disagree with you?

You are the one who does not want to discuss.

Discuss says this is what I believe and why, It does not say LOGIC COMMON sense says my way is right, insinuating the other person has none of the above.
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Sorry, I do not think you are able to discuss topic for a longer period of time... so let us end this now.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

No, I am not.. I could care less what you think. Utah and Beyond believe in Young earth, do you see them attacking people? calling them illogical. or people without common sense? Of course not..

It is just a few select people. And just like with the end times debate, If someone is going to say flat out. End pf discussion, I am going to poke holes in their end of discussion comment, Not for their sake, People who say that have already closed their minds, there are no more teaching moments for them..

But for the people like the one who opened this thread, People openly seeking what people believe. That way they can hear both sides of the story, and make a decision without fear.

If anything, People who say end of story are the ones who are desperate.. If there proof was actual proof. they would never have to say end of story.

I am just plugging holes in your thought that "full stop, ie end of discussion" is plain and outright wrong, Because it can not be proven.
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where's your grammar?. Full stop mean end of sentence not end of discussion, and is used for emphasis.
 
hornetguy said:
Since when did ANY of those things have ANY control over what Jehovah God can, or cannot do?

Biology tells us a woman cannot get pregnant without some type of intercourse... whether human or artificial... does this deny the virgin birth?

Biology tells us that once a person is dead, they do NOT come back to life. So, the resurrection is a myth?

Gravity tells us that men cannot fly (without mechanical help, of course).... so the ascension of Jesus never happened?

Your Gnosticism is showing..... stop trying to put physical, human limitations on God... the creator of the universe...
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Sure. If you believe it was a series of millions of miracles like teleportation of animals to various continents, recreation of many species and then hiding the event in geology etc etc etc, it is surely possible.

But in such case there is nothing scientific about it or anything to discuss. Miracle is just a miracle. End of discussion...
 
valiant said:
well now you show your ignorance. eretz has a number of meanings including the 'land' Abraham arrived at.,
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Gen 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And God called the dry land Earth, (eres) and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.


In cpntext. you have the ocean, and you have the dry land (continents) ALL of the dry land was called eres earth..

so much for your "Absolute"

I know the word has different meanings, YOUR the one stating only ONE meaning can be applied to this flood. Not me..


Now you have any more wise comments which are unfounded to make?
 
trofimus said:
Sure. If you believe it was a series of millions of miracles like teleportation of animals to various continents, recreation of many species and then hiding the event in geology etc etc etc, it is surely possible.

But in such case there is nothing scientific about it or anything to discuss. Miracle is just a miracle. End of discussion...
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Teleport? lol.. Oh ye of little faith.. every animal did not have to come to the ark. Only two or seven of each kind.. And You have to assume that certain had to go across oceans or be "teleported" to the place. and was not already living in the area to begin with.

ie, You assume that things today are as they have always been.

ie, Your whole theory is based on assumptions not proven.

Yeah, that is reason to call other illogical. or without common sense.. (rolls eyes)

You all are making it to easy.. lol. I have to laugh..
 
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