Free will and devine sovereignty

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Jordon said:
You've got something right for once
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Then if we are free God doesn't limit us. Why would he if he loves us. He wants us to be with him he doesn't want us to be with him because he made it so. By definition that's not love.
 
Jordon said:
What the scripture clearly teaches is all will sin because of a nature that is corrupted, that's the first thing, which means it's inevitable that all will sin regardless of whether there parents have been saved or not.

Then the scriptures teach what gives the unsaved a moral free will and capacity to not sin.
Which is the fact that God has wrote on the heart of all the unsaved his moral law.
This is the explanation, that without that moral law willing them not to sin they would sin far more. The scripture of God writing his moral law on all hearts is also the key to understanding that God is drawing the person to him also. Romans 2:14-15
This scripture also is what's known as God's permissive will, where he tells the heart of the unsaved what he allows and doesn't allow, by his moral free will he has wrote in there hearts. By his moral law.
So this answers your question of why should humans have moral free will. And why should there moral free will be permissive to God.
In the heart of the unsaved will be what's not permissive to by his pernissive will placed in there heart, because his moral law he writes on there heart, is his freedom and will to warn them something is prohibited before they sin, which means just before a person sins there will be a little message in there heart, saying that's prohibited.
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Yes, GW teaches that all saints are saved sinners and that God's moral will is revealed to everyone, even via creation per Rom. 1:20.

Amen to Rom. 2:14-15 indicating that God's drawing is resistible because of MFW that exists because of God's intentional will and that can sin because of God's permissive will.
 
Nedsk said:
Then if we are free God doesn't limit us. Why would he if he loves us. He wants us to be with him he doesn't want us to be with him because he made it so. By definition that's not love.
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Again you ask a question that is answered by your own reasoning.

Your not sure but you make out you are,.it's called leaning on your own understanding.

What do you think God is ?

Do you think God would place a limitation on mankinds freedom before the fall then so limitations at all afterwards ?
 
GWH said:
Yes, GW teaches that all saints are saved sinners and that God's moral will is revealed to everyone, even via creation per Rom. 1:20.

Amen to Rom. 2:14-15 indicating that God's drawing is resistible because of MFW that exists because of God's intentional will and that can sin because of God's permissive will.
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That may be so but sin is not granted by God. That's is by the human corrupted moral will
 
Jordon said:
Again you ask a question that is answered by your own reasoning.

Your not sure but you make out you are,.it's called leaning on your own understanding.

What do you think God is ?

Do you think God would place a limitation on mankinds freedom before the fall then so limitations at all afterwards ?
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You said God put limits on us not me. Pay attention
 
Nedsk said:
Coffee. What are you on that you don't know what you said? No disrespect of course
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you amaze.me with your contradictions, you say we can only love God because he gifts us the ability to, but yet you can't recognise God putting limitations on our freedom he's given us ?

If we can't love him spiritualy why do you even think he had to gift us with the ability to love him in the first place ?

Because we broke his freedom he gave to us is the answer in the garden

The gift he gives us to love him, is sufficient to love him, and if a person doesn't show obedience to him, what happens to that person,

Well God has a limit to, and once his limit is crossed he punishes.

There a saying that with God and his limits you stay before his line and you don't cross it.
 
Nedsk said:
No one said it's granted by God but sin is a by-product of free will
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in-correct Gods word say sin is not granted By God, and sin is a product of mans self corrupted freedom. At first it wasn't tho, at first it was Gods life in mankind ignoring his creators life wanting to be higher with his life. Which means God's life in mankind would have known why not to.

Did God corrupt his own freedom by allowing you that choice ?

Was the freedom he gave mankind on the bases they could corrupt if they wanted to ?

No his life was created in an image to his life, for his life to be the higher freedom.

Why would his life in mankind become disengaged spiritualy, because the simple answer is he placed a limitation in the life he created in mankind with his image he created us with.

Yup call me simples but I recommend you dont eat to much chilli powder which is simples 😋

 
Nedsk said:
Our will isn't but in regards to love we aren't free to reject him then by definition love isn't motivating use.
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And yet our will is limited based on our spiritual nature. Your conclusion is the result of your false dichotomy. It works for you, but it's simply wrong.
 
NightTwister said:
And yet our will is limited based on our spiritual nature. Your conclusion is the result of your false dichotomy. It works for you, but it's simply wrong.
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Saying our will is limited by our spiritual nature is meaningless.
 
Jordon said:
I'm not im understanding you here ?
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Sin is not granted/desired/intended by God both before the atheist repents and after he sins as a Christian.
Post-conversion sin is also because of the corrupted moral will (cf. Rom. 7:14-25).
 
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