Frenchman's path to terror

[Viligant_Warrior]

Paris Attacker Amedy Coulibaly’s Path to Terror

PARIS—The man who last week murdered four Jewish hostages in a kosher grocery and shot down a police officer nursed deep resentment against French law enforcement, according to his friends and court documents.

In 2000, when Amedy Coulibaly was 18 years old, police shot dead a close friend while he was attempting to flee the scene of a robbery, said prosecutors and the deceased man’s lawyer. Courts rejected requests by the victim’s family to review the killing, ruling that the officer acted in legitimate defense.

A portrait is emerging of Mr. Coulibaly and his path toward a friendship with a convicted terrorist, Islamic radicalization and last week’s bloody shooting spree.

In the article, The Wall Street Journal chronicles the criminal life of Coulibaly from his first robbery at age 15 up through last Thursday's cold-blooded slaying of a female traffic officer working an accident at a Paris intersection, and the twelve Jewish victims he slew when he invaded a Parisian deli Friday afternoon.

What stands out, for me at least, is this: Coulimady expressed hatred for police officers from the age of 18, when his only friend was shot fleeing the scene of a robbery. Ironically, or perhaps not so much, the killing of 19-year-old Ali Rezgui in 2000 sparked Ferguson-like riots in the French city of Grigny, a crime-infested and poverty-ridden suburb of southern Paris.

Question to consider: Could Muslims take advantage of the current mindset of inner-city American youth -- considering events in Ferguson and on Staten Island last summer and the resulting grand jury results -- and recruit them as it appears al-Qaeda recruited Medy Coulibaly?

 

[Human]

In the article, The Wall Street Journal chronicles the criminal life of Coulibaly from his first robbery at age 15 up through last Thursday's cold-blooded slaying of a female traffic officer working an accident at a Paris intersection, and the twelve Jewish victims he slew when he invaded a Parisian deli Friday afternoon.

What stands out, for me at least, is this: Coulimady expressed hatred for police officers from the age of 18, when his only friend was shot fleeing the scene of a robbery. Ironically, or perhaps not so much, the killing of 19-year-old Ali Rezgui in 2000 sparked Ferguson-like riots in the French city of Grigny, a crime-infested and poverty-ridden suburb of southern Paris.

Question to consider: Could Muslims take advantage of the current mindset of inner-city American youth -- considering events in Ferguson and on Staten Island last summer and the resulting grand jury results -- and recruit them as it appears al-Qaeda recruited Medy Coulibaly?

Bit of a silly question, really. Of course they could. So could any violent group that taps into kids' fears and resentments. How do you think any violent organization recruit? By making people think it's in their best interest to join, playing on their motivations for doing so, and cultivating already existing personal biases that are in line with the organization's worldview.

''Hey, you hate white people? Me, too. They've done me no good, but look, I have a solution. We can help you make this place better, if you want to. You're right to think the way you do, and we do too''.

That's how people end up in trenches. Substitute ''White'' for ''German'', ''Muslim'', ''Terrorist'', ''American'', whatever.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Bit of a silly question, really. Of course they could. So could any violent group that taps into kids' fears and resentments. How do you think any violent organization recruit? By making people think it's in their best interest to join, playing on their motivations for doing so, and cultivating already existing personal biases that are in line with the organization's worldview.

''Hey, you hate white people? Me, too. They've done me no good, but look, I have a solution. We can help you make this place better, if you want to. You're right to think the way you do, and we do too''.

That's how people end up in trenches. Substitute ''White'' for ''German'', ''Muslim'', ''Terrorist'', ''American'', whatever.

You made one error here. I didn't use the word "black" but you automatically assumed that by "inner city youth" I meant black teens. Perhaps I did, particularly given that I specifically mentioned Ferguson and Staten Island. But the term could apply to anyone living in the inner cities of our large American metroplitan areas.

But, OK, fair enough. So let me revise the question: Could the mindset of inner city black youth make them more susceptible to recruitment by al-Qaeda or other Islamist terror groups than, say, Native Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans, or whites?

 

[Human]

You made one error here. I didn't use the word "black" but you automatically assumed that by "inner city youth" I meant black teens. Perhaps I did, particularly given that I specifically mentioned Ferguson and Staten Island. But the term could apply to anyone living in the inner cities of our large American metroplitan areas.

But, OK, fair enough. So let me revise the question: Could the mindset of inner city youth make them more susceptible to recruitment by al-Qaeda or other Islamist terror groups than, say, Native Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans, or whites?

You cited Ferguson, and Amedi Coulibaly is black -- it wasn't an unfair assumption. The mindset of iner city youth isn't universally equilavent across all individuals within the inner city. But it stands to reason if someone's mindset makes them susceptible to influence then they can be influenced easier than someone whose mindset isn't susceptible to such influence.

It's likely if someone harbours resentment towards whites they're more suceptible to be recruited to the black panthers. If someone harburs resentment towards Westernized culture it's more likely they'll be susceptible to recruitment by opposers of Western culture.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

You cited Ferguson, and Amedi Coulibaly is black -- it wasn't an unfair assumption.

I didn't say it was. I just said implied it wasn't inclusive, as there are non-black inner city youth not only here, but throughout the world.

The mindset of iner city youth isn't universally equilavent across all individuals within the inner city.

So you are claiming there is inequality in how the psychosocial-economic outlooks of various ethnicities develops? Sorry, but I see too many such people in my work to agree with that. While there are cultural differences among ethnic populations in how people integrate their socioeconomic conditions into their cognitive-emotional processes, the endgame for everyone who arrives at a certain personality disorder, addiction, or psychosis in reaction and self-protection due to those socioeconomic conditions is virtually identical across ethnic lines.

But it stands to reason if someone's mindset makes them susceptible to influence then they can be influenced easier than someone whose mindset isn't susceptible to such influence.

And you're absolutely right. Which is precisely what I was going for in my original post.

It's likely if someone harbours resentment towards whites they're more suceptible to be recruited to the black panthers. If someone harburs resentment towards Westernized culture it's more likely they'll be susceptible to recruitment by opposers of Western culture.

It was said of Coulibaly in the WSJ article that he harbored resentment against police, rather than an ethnic or ideological profile. Would that provide a touchstone for us to discuss this relative to the recent demonstrations and riots in the U.S., or not?

 

[Human]

I didn't say it was. I just said implied it wasn't inclusive, as there are non-black inner city youth not only here, but throughout the world.

So you are claiming there is inequality in how the psychosocial-economic outlooks of various ethnicities develops? Sorry, but I see too many such people in my work to agree with that. While there are cultural differences among ethnic populations in how people integrate their socioeconomic conditions into their cognitive-emotional processes, the endgame for everyone who arrives at a certain personality disorder, addiction, or psychosis in reaction and self-protection due to those socioeconomic conditions is virtually identical across ethnic lines.

''Inequality'' infers externally inflicted bias. It's more a case of unique conditioning. Not every inner city kid thinks the same way. Not every inner city kid is susceptible to the same things. Not every inner city kid can be lumped together to conclude a unanimous answer on ''are inner city kids more susceptible to x''. First you'd have to establish common psychological propensity for them to all be susceptible to x. Not every inner city kid is black, not every inner city kid is anti-America, not every inner-city kid has the same conditioning. It's also a massive jump to conclude specific inner city kids with any particular resentments due to their cogntive conclusions regarding environmentally conditioning factors are mentally delusional or suffering personality disorders. In short, the ''mindset of inner city youth'' is psychologically variant. These aren't robots with common psyches, these are unique humans.

And you're absolutely right. Which is precisely what I was going for in my original post.

It was said of Coulibaly in the WSJ article that he harbored resentment against police, rather than an ethnic or ideological profile. Would that provide a touchstone for us to discuss this relative to the recent demonstrations and riots in the U.S., or not?

Yea. He resented police. He was susceptible for influence by those who validated and propagated cultivation of those resentments.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

''Inequality'' infers externally inflicted bias. It's more a case of unique conditioning. Not every inner city kid thinks the same way. Not every inner city kid is susceptible to the same things. Not every inner city kid can be lumped together to conclude a unanimous answer on ''are inner city kids more susceptible to x''.

I beg to differ. While no two people think exactly alike, careers have been made by ground-breaking work identifying tendencies, trends, and susceptibilities among ethnic groups.

First you'd have to establish common psychological propensity for them to all be susceptible to x.

Actually, that's the goal of the research. The procedure for reaching a positive or negative conclusion on the hypothesis is simple observation.

Not every inner city kid is black, not every inner city kid is anti-America, not every inner-city kid has the same conditioning. It's also a massive jump to conclude specific inner city kids with any particular resentments due to their cogntive conclusions regarding environmentally conditioning factors are mentally delusional or suffering personality disorders.

Psychology establishes a "normal." So do people in general. Behavior outside that "normal" is therefore classified as a personality disorder, an addiction (both are Axis II diagnoses) or a psychosis, which is Axis I. These all are classified as mild, moderate, or severe, and there are subcategories within that framework to further classify the severity -- or lack thereof -- of the diagnosis. Further, "delusion" is not necessarily a symptom of a psychosis, as there are several Axis I disorders that do not include delusional feelings or behaviors. It is simply a way to attempt to classify the psychological status of any given observed subject.

In short, the ''mindset of inner city youth'' is psychologically variant. These aren't robots with common psyches, these are unique humans.

As are all human beings. But again, there are proven "types" of behaviors among various ethnic groups, many specific to subgroups' socioeconomic experience. A prime and unfortunate example is the rampant alcoholism among Native Americans.

Perhaps you should read my profile. You're talking to someone who does this for a living. As such, I can say with some authority that, while the Ferguson and Staten Island riots are not a common behavior among black youth, there is a reasonable question as to whether or not those riots and a possible "group-think" of hate for police regardless of individual experience, represents a group psychology that is unique to their ethnicity. That's what we're trying to get at here. It's observable behavior. The question is, is it reasonable to expect such reactions, and susceptibility to other behaviors -- such as turning to Islamist terrorists for the very kind of validation you speak of in your post.





Yea. He resented police. He was susceptible for influence by those who validated and propagated cultivation of those resentments.[/QUOTE]

 

[Human]

I beg to differ. While no two people think exactly alike, careers have been made by ground-breaking work identifying tendencies, trends, and susceptibilities among ethnic groups.

Actually, that's the goal of the research. The procedure for reaching a positive or negative conclusion on the hypothesis is simple observation.

Psychology establishes a "normal." So do people in general. Behavior outside that "normal" is therefore classified as a personality disorder, an addiction (both are Axis II diagnoses) or a psychosis, which is Axis I. These all are classified as mild, moderate, or severe, and there are subcategories within that framework to further classify the severity -- or lack thereof -- of the diagnosis. Further, "delusion" is not necessarily a symptom of a psychosis, as there are several Axis I disorders that do not include delusional feelings or behaviors. It is simply a way to attempt to classify the psychological status of any given observed subject.

As are all human beings. But again, there are proven "types" of behaviors among various ethnic groups, many specific to subgroups' socioeconomic experience. A prime and unfortunate example is the rampant alcoholism among Native Americans.

Perhaps you should read my profile. You're talking to someone who does this for a living. As such, I can say with some authority that, while the Ferguson and Staten Island riots are not a common behavior among black youth, there is a reasonable question as to whether or not those riots and a possible "group-think" of hate for police regardless of individual experience, represents a group psychology that is unique to their ethnicity. That's what we're trying to get at here. It's observable behavior. The question is, is it reasonable to expect such reactions, and susceptibility to other behaviors -- such as turning to Islamist terrorists for the very kind of validation you speak of in your post.

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Yea. He resented police. He was susceptible for influence by those who validated and propagated cultivation of those resentments.

[/QUOTE]

What you're saying by asserting that there is a near unanimous resentment-characterized behavioural archetype across 'inner city kids' is saying that it's 'normal' for an inner city kid to be resentful. So, from what scope do you declare them mentally ill?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

What you're saying by asserting that there is a near unanimous resentment-characterized behavioural archetype across 'inner city kids' is saying that it's 'normal' for an inner city kid to be resentful.

No, not at all. What I'm saying is that there may exist a group psychology among black inner city youth that centers on "cop-hate" and that Islamist terrorists might attempt to take advantage of that anomaly with some success.

So, from what scope do you declare them mentally ill?

I didn't say they were mentally ill. I am postulating that perhaps they are participating in a group psychology that may leave them abnormally or uniquely susceptible to a nefarious outside influence from Islamist terrorists. I'm seeking opinions of that postulation. That's all.