GALATIANS 3:5....BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?
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And I'm saying to walk IN the Spirit so we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It's a matter of walking out who we are IN Christ being directed by the HolySpirit who ministers to our spirit that we are the sons of God. He will not try to transform our old flesh. He works through our new born again spirit man.
So, you do agree we are to obey His Commandments?
Good, then pleas explain to others how obeying His Commandments is not preaching The Law.......
thanks.......
Unless we walk in the spirit we cannot love anyone. We love Him because He first loved us.
Romans 8:9 [SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15 For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!
Romans 8:9 [SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15 For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!
The point is that we can't do anything in and by our flesh. Lot's of people like the OP was trying to bring out the truth of... many are doing great things like the lady who has served in the church for 50 yrs. but her prayers were not answered yet the guy who just got saved is healed because he didn't come based on his good behavior but by faith in the finished work of Christ.
It's the righteousness of FAITH in Christ's finished work., not faith in our works of righteousness.
It's the righteousness of FAITH in Christ's finished work., not faith in our works of righteousness.
Have no idea who you are arguing with...........no one has disagreed with this
Read the OP you dancing Elephant you.
Read my Comment #27 you Flower Child you.......
My statements were not about this Thread, but when you posted them on my Thread.......no one is disagreeing with this Thread that I am aware of
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[FONT="]The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law. In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.[/FONT]
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We stand by grace alone.[/FONT]
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The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.[/FONT]
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“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)[/FONT]
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The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.[/FONT]
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Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.[/FONT]
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Who did the separating? Not Jesus.[/FONT]
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As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.[/FONT]
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Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).[/FONT]
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Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.[/FONT]
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When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”[/FONT]
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If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty[/FONT]
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[FONT="]The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law. In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
We stand by grace alone.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)[/FONT]
[FONT="]
The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Who did the separating? Not Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]
If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty[/FONT]
The scenario presented in the op is imaginary.
There are many times when the Spirit doesn’t agree with our faith that we think is strong and grounded in truth.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God.
What I’m saying is that applying scripture as we presume we should, will often lead to discovering that the Spirit hasn’t led us at all, but rather we have presumed to lead the Spirit.
So, given that failure of faith occurs it is important to know scripture and also to know the leading of the Spirit as well.
There are many times when the Spirit doesn’t agree with our faith that we think is strong and grounded in truth.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God.
What I’m saying is that applying scripture as we presume we should, will often lead to discovering that the Spirit hasn’t led us at all, but rather we have presumed to lead the Spirit.
So, given that failure of faith occurs it is important to know scripture and also to know the leading of the Spirit as well.
When we have the Holy Spirit we can trust Him 100% to lead us into all truth for our lives. This takes faith as we walk in our new man (the new creation IN Christ. The Holy Spirit never contradicts His Word and He shows us how to rightly divide the the Word of truth.. comparing spiritual things with spiritual things., The Holy Spirit teaches us how to study and He teaches us and fills us with power and might in the Holy Spirit... be ye being filled...
A friend of mine said this;
I have often said that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.
The Pharisees knew the scriptures but didn't know the truth that is in them. The scriptures are not God. Jesus said that "You search the scriptures because you think in them you have life but they speak of Me and you won't come to Me so that you might find life."
Reading the scriptures by themselves does not make one mature in the Lord. It's our behavior that shows our true age in the Lord. 1 Pet. 2:1-2 We have to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus became a man like us (yet without sin) and He did all the miracles in and by the Spirit. He was the first born of many brethren. He is our example of how to allow the Holy Spirit to work in and through us. Without the Holy Spirit., we can't do anything.
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John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
I agree with this 100%. The reason people get the Bible all mixed up is that Jesus is not being seen or revealed.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
I agree with this 100%. The reason people get the Bible all mixed up is that Jesus is not being seen or revealed.
The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law. In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.
We stand by grace alone.
Whenever we put works of any kind or facts of any kind or beliefs of any kind before the grace through faith of Jesus., we open ourselves up to the world., the flesh and the devil. I see it done all the time now that I'm not so easily tricked into doing it any more. Now I'm careful to get my brain back to the simplicity of grace through faith like when I first got saved.
I've discovered the key for me to live the Christian life is to do it by grace through faith. Just like when we first heard the Gospel of our salvation we realized it's not by our works but by Jesus and His finished work on the cross that saves us. We leap off the pedestal of human reason to believing that it is JESUS and Him alone.
So now I do the same thing with my life and how I trust Him to get me through each day despite the other voices of "reason" that say it's not REAL you can't just believe He will do it!! But when I ignore them and stand in the Spirit I'm secure again. My joy and peace are back and faith grows. The more we believe the more we see., the more we see the more walk it out... the more we walk it out the more we believe... the more we see....
The job turns around... the bills get paid........ the relationships grow.... the opportunities present themselves without me forcing them as I used to ALWAYS try to do. I tried to MAKE things happen and tried to put that round peg in a square hole. I even fooled myself into believing even while the peg was crammed into the square hole and hanging out that it fit!! That's how foolish and delusional our flesh is.
Nevertheless, we follow after the Spirit, rather than suppose we can use scripture as we please in expectation that the Spirit will agree with us.
Amen its the hearing of his faith in respect to His Spirit his work of faith that works in us... not from us.. It is where many time it gets turned upside down as if we the things formed by God, the church His bride were the Potter, taking away His understanding of faith .....our first love .
Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Hearing God not seen,and not hearing about as second hand is considered our first love for knowing Him and not that we first loved Him according to our own selves.He is the is cause for that love we are the effect of it. That love is jealous and will not be shared with the creation. (clay) Like that of the Nicolaitanes that God hated (no blessings)
A good example in found in Revelation 2 when men were giving the first love over to that seen the Nicolaitanes in respect to Nicole the leader of that sect .
Note.... (green in parenthesis) my personal added comment
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; ( believe God as he gives his faith to make it possible, not men) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of GodRev 2:2-7
Exactly., and that is why it's so important to learn how to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. We are told to put off the old and put ON the new. We can convince ourselves we are doing something right when in fact our motivation is totally coming from our flesh. It takes the Holy Spirit to show us the difference., and He shows us in the Bible what comes from the flesh and what comes from the Spirit. But it is the Holy Spirit working in our new man to be able to SEE this.
As I said about the square peg analogy in the other post. It's true., out flesh is deceitful but our flesh is not who we are anymore. We have been made new creations in Christ. And can walk that out daily as we choose. We have been set free from law of sin and death. We are not set free from the presence of sin but the POWER of sin. Romans 8:2
Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
I shared my own example in another thread. I'll post it here.
It is possible to become a foolish Galatian and not even know it has happened. We're very accustomed to works of the law meaning trying to keep the ceremonial laws, and since we have been taught not to keep them, we don't worry about whether we are yoked to the law again rather than trust (faith).
I'll share how I became a foolish Galatian for many years and didn't even know it. By the way, Paul in his letter to them was not speaking to men who had not been born again with the Holy Spirit. He said to them, how is it that you have left what I taught you so quickly? Did you receive the Spirit by obeying the law, or did you receive the Spirit by trusting (faith)? So these were men that he knew had received the Spirit.
So, I received the Spirit and God began to show me some of the spirit of the word, like the earlier example I gave about murder being anger in my heart and men murdering even when they do not physically take a life.
So I had this new knowledge of the spirit of the law about murder, and I loved my Lord very much and wanted to please Him. So I set about facing the angers in my heart at how people treated me sometimes. I sought to be very good regarding this and I was upset when I would get angry and fume over what someone had done to me. I would try to talk myself out of the anger or tell myself I wasn't really angry, just slightly annoyed. I tried all kinds of things to convince myself to not be angry. And the harder I tried, the worse it got for me.
I had left my trust in Him to finish the work He began. I was trying very hard in my own strength. I loved Him and felt I owed Him my obedience in the matter. I struggled in it for many years.
I had become a foolish Galatian and had no idea. I was trying to finish in the flesh (my strength) what had begun in the Spirit. I had received the Spirit through trust, not by anything I did. And I was meant to keep trusting Him to finish me, but got caught in trying to finish my own self by trying really hard to keep the law to not murder. So I had got caught in works of the law rather than continuing in trust and reliance on His working what He had said He would work in me.
I'll share how I became a foolish Galatian for many years and didn't even know it. By the way, Paul in his letter to them was not speaking to men who had not been born again with the Holy Spirit. He said to them, how is it that you have left what I taught you so quickly? Did you receive the Spirit by obeying the law, or did you receive the Spirit by trusting (faith)? So these were men that he knew had received the Spirit.
So, I received the Spirit and God began to show me some of the spirit of the word, like the earlier example I gave about murder being anger in my heart and men murdering even when they do not physically take a life.
So I had this new knowledge of the spirit of the law about murder, and I loved my Lord very much and wanted to please Him. So I set about facing the angers in my heart at how people treated me sometimes. I sought to be very good regarding this and I was upset when I would get angry and fume over what someone had done to me. I would try to talk myself out of the anger or tell myself I wasn't really angry, just slightly annoyed. I tried all kinds of things to convince myself to not be angry. And the harder I tried, the worse it got for me.
I had left my trust in Him to finish the work He began. I was trying very hard in my own strength. I loved Him and felt I owed Him my obedience in the matter. I struggled in it for many years.
I had become a foolish Galatian and had no idea. I was trying to finish in the flesh (my strength) what had begun in the Spirit. I had received the Spirit through trust, not by anything I did. And I was meant to keep trusting Him to finish me, but got caught in trying to finish my own self by trying really hard to keep the law to not murder. So I had got caught in works of the law rather than continuing in trust and reliance on His working what He had said He would work in me.