Gay couple to sue church over gay marriage opt-out

[Bryancampbell]

As far as I know it's a man who lies with another man as with a woman that makes homosexuality.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. Leviticus 20:13 NASB

Be happy that God is gracious by the Lord's atoning now my friend, because things were scary when the law was applied to the people of the land back then.

 

[Bryancampbell]

As far as I know it's a man who lies with another man as with a woman that makes homosexuality.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. Leviticus 20:13 NASB

Be happy that God is gracious by the Lord's atoning now my friend, because things were scary when the law was applied to the people of the land back then.

It would apply to women as well. Romans 1:18-28

 

[Adinah]

i guess you dont clearly realize that sodomy occurs quite frequently among heterosexual couples as well. So i guess that would make them sodomites too. Or you could learn the actual definitions of words...

I do know what it means, nautilus. Homosexuals only have sex by way of sodomy. I realize I'm probably being too frank now, but let's face it, that's not a natural way to have sex. Do I have to say the words? We're talking the filthiest part of the human body here. And we're surprised at the disease that comes about by way of this act? Common.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Under the old covenant Mosaic law there were severe penalties for sins against the family. Look at Lev 20:9–21. They all deal with sexual sins (except verse 9?). At the very minimum this section shows that the family was extremely important to God and that sexual violations which corrupted it were to be dealt with strongly. This included homosexual behavior (Lev 20:13) regardless of whether or not sodomy was involved. Many of the penalties listed here prescribe a “cutting off” of the violators from the community of God. They were cut off from God's people and given over to their sexual immorality to protect the family (e.g. the remaining families) in the ancient nation of Israel.

The ancient Israelites were told to decimate wicked pagan nations that refused to repent. These nations were burning children to idols (Lev 18:21) and practicing homosexuality, sodomy, bestiality and all sorts of loathsome vices (Lev 18:25, 27–30). God’s grace and mercy just didn't extend that far. Now we're under a new covenant not the old covenant but God's holiness doesn't change to accommodate people's love of sexual immorality. Obviously sodomy is immoral no matter who is engaging in it.

Under the new covenant humanity is called to repentance from sexual immorality for the very same reasons. Repent and be saved; pursue God and His righteousness. Grace, grace, and more grace is always available to the struggling repentant Christian. God knows what His repentant dearly beloved struggle with in their lives sexually and otherwise and He forgives and loves them through it all until they finally achieve victory in life or death. That IS the narrow path.

These people, of course, aren't maligning God's Word to justify a life spent in sexual immorality as they deceive others and pull them into their error. These people aren't opposed to genuine Christians that speak of God's holiness.

i guess you dont clearly realize that sodomy occurs quite frequently among heterosexual couples as well. So i guess that would make them sodomites too. Or you could learn the actual definitions of words...

 

[Daniel94]

As I said, I believe in the bible. If others do not, thats between them and God but lets get a few things straight.

Homosexuality is clearly a sin in the bible. If you do not believe in the Bible or God, ok, but do not, ever say, the bible in any fashion supports homosexuality, fornication or adultery. That is a bold faced lie.

Since some here do not believe in the bible and its absolute truth...I have to wonder what is your purpose here? You cannot ever separate us from God, or change the words of the bible.

Not once have I ever said homosexuality, in the sense of homosexual sex, is not a sin. I have merely said that attractions are not. I have also said that people have different morals. No where have I ever tried to say God or the Bible condones homosexuality. I just think it is unfair of Christians to talk as if gay people are lesser than themselves. I know many on here will say that pointing out a sin is not being unfair or showing hatred, but it is the way you go about pointing out sin that is hateful. Humans are fragile and weak beings. We are easily tempted, persuaded and hurt. For those reasons I believe you have to be delicate when talking about sin to people, especially if it is a sin they are dealing with. As for why I am here, you can search for my very first post if you'd like. I started a thread about this very topic. I did not want to be gay. I have talked with some very nice people on here who have shared their views and opinions in a thoughtful way. I have followed the advice of some, but to no avail I am still gay. I am not trying to separate anyone from God. My profile says I am not a Christian, but I only changed it to that because someone accused me of not being a Christian. Although, I couldn't care less if anyone on here thinks I am a Christian or not because that is between God and me and majority already probably think I'm not. My views may not fall into what you would call the ideal Christian, but I don't think anyone can become a perfect Christian because we are imperfect beings, in the sense that we are too easily tempted.

The Bible is absolutely clear on what God has to say about homosexuality. To suggest a homosexual couple should raise a child and that anyone in a Christian forum should say this is acceptable before God is ludicrous. God said what He said about homosexuality. It is an abomination before the Lord. So how in this world would any believer think it is acceptable for two people committing an abomination before the Lord to raise children? It's ludicrous that anyone come in here and make this assertion. There are tons of scriptures that say such a relationship is corrupt. So how in the world would a Christian believe a child should be raised in a corrupt home that teaches that corruption to that child and even demonstrates it before that child?

Homosexuality is sodomy. That's exactly what it is. You can call it by any other name, but it is corruption all the same. You don't believe that? Get yourself another religion. Create one if you will. But to claim God the Father of Jesus Christ condones this is a lie against God Himself.

So forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're saying God condones an atheist couple who do not believe in Him to raise a child, but not a gay couple who do believe? Where is the logic in that? Also, what exactly is the couple demonstrating in front of a child? A kiss? Kids can see two men or two women kiss anywhere nowadays.

Honestly, can I not attempt to make a point on this site without being accused of condoning homosexuality? As I told SonInMe, not once have I ever said that homosexuality is not a sin. I have said my attraction to the same gender is not a sin. There is a difference to me liking a guy and me actually having sex with the guy. I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but for fear of being accused of condoning something which I have never said I condoned I thought it best to be blunt. I also know that the world is not solely a Christian world. There are many others out there with different beliefs, which is why I keep saying what is immoral to one person may be moral to another. If someone does not hold the belief of Christianity or any religious belief then clearly they would not hold the belief that homosexuality is immoral.

 

[SonInMe]

''There are many others out there with different beliefs, which is why I keep saying what is immoral to one person may be moral to another.''

This is not a christian position. Truth is not subjective.

Suggesting homosexuals..can...raise children and can do it as well as heterosexuals can in a committed marriage is a promotion of sin. an excuse of sin, and flies in the face of scripture clearly stating there is no love in sin.

Heterosexuality in a commited marriage, christian or not, is the way God designed humanity, physically anyways. In a perfect world, a christian marriage, committed and in submission to God would be best but even christian homes can have problems.

Its about promotion. I will stand on biblical principles all day long and no one can tell me any other moral position is superior.

 

[Nautilus]

I do know what it means, nautilus. Homosexuals only have sex by way of sodomy. I realize I'm probably being too frank now, but let's face it, that's not a natural way to have sex. Do I have to say the words? We're talking the filthiest part of the human body here. And we're surprised at the disease that comes about by way of this act? Common.

Hilariously the same diseases come from your 'normal heterosex' as well. Its probably better not to speak on the sexual side of the issue if you aren't very well informed. Like straight couples do the same things gay couples do all the time. Shocker, welcome to the world of 'Sex isn't actually as taboo as some christians would lead you to believe'

 

[Adinah]

Hilariously the same diseases come from your 'normal heterosex' as well. Its probably better not to speak on the sexual side of the issue if you aren't very well informed. Like straight couples do the same things gay couples do all the time. Shocker, welcome to the world of 'Sex isn't actually as taboo as some christians would lead you to believe'

Anal sex is. You have some special insight into having sex the rest of us don't have? Sex is about love between a man and a woman (monogamous) and procreation. That's what it's for. Adultery, fornication, sex between everyone and his or her brother is what causes disease. No, anal sex isn't the only perversion that causes disease. Did I have to say that? I'd think it would be obvious that sin does cause disease.

 

[Adinah]

Hilariously the same diseases come from your 'normal heterosex' as well. Its probably better not to speak on the sexual side of the issue if you aren't very well informed. Like straight couples do the same things gay couples do all the time. Shocker, welcome to the world of 'Sex isn't actually as taboo as some christians would lead you to believe'

By the way, I see that you're not married, but you're an expert on sex? That combination may be the problem right there with your perceptions.

 

[Nautilus]

I know plenty of married couples that have committed 'sodomy'. Its not that uncommon among modern couples, both married and not. And I'm not married but since people aren't born christians maybe I have prior experience...

 

[Adinah]

I know plenty of married couples that have committed 'sodomy'. Its not that uncommon among modern couples, both married and not. And I'm not married but since people aren't born christians maybe I have prior experience...

Anyone knows married couples and same sex couples "commit" sodomy. I'm not picking on your prior experience either. We're all sinners saved by grace. But having sex by way of a part of our body made to dispel waste is asking for it. It is "literally" a filthy act.

 

[Daniel94]

''There are many others out there with different beliefs, which is why I keep saying what is immoral to one person may be moral to another.''

This is not a christian position. Truth is not subjective.

Suggesting homosexuals..can...raise children and can do it as well as heterosexuals can in a committed marriage is a promotion of sin. an excuse of sin, and flies in the face of scripture clearly stating there is no love in sin.

Heterosexuality in a committed marriage, christian or not, is the way God designed humanity, physically anyways. In a perfect world, a christian marriage, committed and in submission to God would be best but even christian homes can have problems.

Its about promotion. I will stand on biblical principles all day long and no one can tell me any other moral position is superior.

How is realizing that the world is not a Christian world and does not hold the same beliefs as Christianity not a Christian position? As I already said my thoughts probably don't line up with the "christian" you think I should be.

I'm not trying to tell you anyone else's position is superior. I was just trying to get the point across that people have different beliefs about morality. No where have I said those beliefs are right. If you stand on biblical principles then I would think you shouldn't rather an atheist couple to raise a child over a gay couple.

 

[Nautilus]

Anyone knows married couples and same sex couples "commit" sodomy. I'm not picking on your prior experience either. We're all sinners saved by grace. But having sex by way of a part of our body made to dispel waste is asking for it. It is "literally" a filthy act.

Asking for what? That isn't even the point though you seem to want to make it one. All I was doing was deriding improper use of the english language. Since people from all walks of life; gay, straight, atheistic, christian, etc. perform sodomy with their partners, that using that one word to describe a particular segment of the population is well...irresponsible.

 

[Adinah]

Not once have I ever said homosexuality, in the sense of homosexual sex, is not a sin. I have merely said that attractions are not. I have also said that people have different morals. No where have I ever tried to say God or the Bible condones homosexuality. I just think it is unfair of Christians to talk as if gay people are lesser than themselves. I know many on here will say that pointing out a sin is not being unfair or showing hatred, but it is the way you go about pointing out sin that is hateful. Humans are fragile and weak beings. We are easily tempted, persuaded and hurt. For those reasons I believe you have to be delicate when talking about sin to people, especially if it is a sin they are dealing with. As for why I am here, you can search for my very first post if you'd like. I started a thread about this very topic. I did not want to be gay. I have talked with some very nice people on here who have shared their views and opinions in a thoughtful way. I have followed the advice of some, but to no avail I am still gay. I am not trying to separate anyone from God. My profile says I am not a Christian, but I only changed it to that because someone accused me of not being a Christian. Although, I couldn't care less if anyone on here thinks I am a Christian or not because that is between God and me and majority already probably think I'm not. My views may not fall into what you would call the ideal Christian, but I don't think anyone can become a perfect Christian because we are imperfect beings, in the sense that we are too easily tempted.


So forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're saying God condones an atheist couple who do not believe in Him to raise a child, but not a gay couple who do believe? Where is the logic in that? Also, what exactly is the couple demonstrating in front of a child? A kiss? Kids can see two men or two women kiss anywhere nowadays.

Honestly, can I not attempt to make a point on this site without being accused of condoning homosexuality? As I told SonInMe, not once have I ever said that homosexuality is not a sin. I have said my attraction to the same gender is not a sin. There is a difference to me liking a guy and me actually having sex with the guy. I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but for fear of being accused of condoning something which I have never said I condoned I thought it best to be blunt. I also know that the world is not solely a Christian world. There are many others out there with different beliefs, which is why I keep saying what is immoral to one person may be moral to another. If someone does not hold the belief of Christianity or any religious belief then clearly they would not hold the belief that homosexuality is immoral.

No, I'm not saying that (that God condones atheists to raise children). This is about homosexuality. Sin is sin. A marriage where parents are committing adultery is obviously not a fit marriage. Even still, sin is sin. Homosexuality is still sin.

A gay couple that believes? And still practice a gay lifestyle? Doesn't work. If you are saved you turn from sin. You don't love God and disobey Him. You turn from sin when you are saved. Homosexuality is sin.

 

[Adinah]

Children aren't stupid. They obviously will know the people taking care of them are practicing gays. This in confusion, unnatural, and teaches the opposite of how God told us to live. There's nothing else to discuss. Either you do what He says or you don't. You say you love Him but you don't do what He says? Then you're a liar. That's scriptural.

 

[Adinah]

Asking for what? That isn't even the point though you seem to want to make it one. All I was doing was deriding improper use of the english language. Since people from all walks of life; gay, straight, atheistic, christian, etc. perform sodomy with their partners, that using that one word to describe a particular segment of the population is well...irresponsible.

Well call me responsible then. Let's just skip the descriptions and go straight to God. "What'd you think, God, of homosexuality?" we ask. "IT'S AN ABOMINATION BEFORE THE LORD,'' He answers.

Guess that takes care of that.

 

[Nautilus]

Still wasnt the point adinah but its nice to know you like to argue invisible arguments. I never said anything youre answering me with. I simply said sodomy is an inaccurate term for homosexuals since its something people of all sexual orientations engage in.

 

[Adinah]

Still wasnt the point adinah but its nice to know you like to argue invisible arguments. I never said anything youre answering me with. I simply said sodomy is an inaccurate term for homosexuals since its something people of all sexual orientations engage in.

Well, the reason it's called sodomy is obviously because homosexuality is associated with Sodom and Gomorrah. Yes yes yes, I know that wasn't their only sin. They probably were guilty of sinning on every count. But when every man in a city lines up and demands that a man send his "out-of-town" guests out so they can have sex with them? Obviously that was a deciphering factor in destroying that city. I've heard in-hospitality was Sodom and Gomorrah's main sin. lol. Homosexual gang rape is definitely inhospitable. But again! Back to the point. The word "sodomy" came from that story, which was, yes, about.... homosexuals.

 

[SarahRochelle]

I try not to gossip and, in my mind, anything that doesn't educate, inspire, witness, lift up, humour, enlighten, teach or help (or bare fruits of the spirit)is not worth discussing. But I came across this thread and honestly, I believe maybe they feel they can intimidate the church into excepting.. the relationship. Like, MAKING it ok in Gods eyes. ..but, I dare not cast a stone's. For we have all sinned and fallen short. I see things beyond this matter and simply pray. Discussing it will help no one.

 

[SarahRochelle]

We are to love and pray for one another.. not judge and condemn. I will say for my self ...I use to be a wild child. LoL and people judging me never helped me. I came to yearn Gods love by seeing his light shine threw others. I forgive and love everyone cause that's what Jesus wants us to do.