Gay Invasion

[karuna]

And what is wrong with the comparison?

It only holds if everyone involved agrees with a number of hidden assumptions. Going back to the original post:

But how would you feel if American Idol was being invaded by necrophiliacs?

Mostly? Confused. A little bit curious, since necrophiliacs don't have a public face, much less on American Idol. I'm sorry - was the right answer "appalled?"

Apart from personal distaste, a concern over hygiene, and a worry that bodies whose previous "owners" did not consent are being used, why are we bothered by seeing necrophiliacs? The intent of the question was to invoke revulsion, because necrophiliacs are gross and clearly shouldn't be on TV, especially en masse, but it really fails when one considers the question carefully. The question relies on an "eww, cooties" reaction that thoughtful people will have left behind in their childhoods.

Furthermore, the comparison fails because not all marginalized groups are the same. Necrophilia and homosexuality both involve sex, right? So any time we accept the one we're beholden to accept the other, right? It may surprise you, but not all homosexuals accept all sexual expression as valid. For instance:

But there will be a day when necrophiliacs have banded together, gotten politically astute, inflated their numbers, created all this hype about a necrophiliac gene, formed pop bands, sued religious institutions, and equated their cause with that of abolition. And on that day, you will be shamed as necrophobic for comparing necrophiliacs with Hitler.

No, I (and most other people) probably won't be ashamed for having not shown support for necrophilia. Why? Because my measure for acceptance is not any of the above. There are larger questions than who is popular. In fact, I find it more than a little scary that this is how you decide what you're willing to accept. (I'm aware that it's not what you actually practice, but since you've set up this ridiculous strawman you're going to pay for it.)

This sort of nonsense, comparisons with other groups or people that we surely must dislike, seem to be common around here. In another thread concerning gay people, for instance, someone asked:

Lets substitute the word prostitute for homosexual. Would you support a cause that brings awareness to violence against prostitutes? Probably not, not because you hate prostitutes, but because as a Christian it is not necessary for you to be wrongly associated with support for an immoral act.

The answer is yes, I would support a cause that brings awareness of violence against prostitutes. No, I wouldn't support necrophiliac rights. But how can there possibly be a difference? Because I don't make my decisions based on the criteria you listed above, I can actually think through whom I support. I don't have to run down every slippery slope I see.

 

[JohnKnox]

(I'm aware that it's not what you actually practice, but since you've set up this ridiculous strawman you're going to pay for it.)

As ridiculous a strawman that a homosexual example would have been a few short decades ago? or at any other time in nearly any other civilization in history?

 

[karuna]

As ridiculous a strawman that a homosexual example would have been a few short decades ago? or at any other time in nearly any other civilization in history?

No, the strawman is the idea that people accept something necessarily because it's popular, not, say, because they have other, more valid reasons. You wrote:

But there will be a day when necrophiliacs have banded together, gotten politically astute, inflated their numbers, created all this hype about a necrophiliac gene, formed pop bands, sued religious institutions, and equated their cause with that of abolition. And on that day, you will be shamed as necrophobic for comparing necrophiliacs with Hitler.

It turns out, people can still vehemently disagree with everything a movement stands for, even if they have pop bands.

 

[zeroturbulence]

The words of our Lord Jesus Christ...

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies,bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you [only] love those who love you, what reward have you?

Matthew 5:43-46 NKJV

 

[blessed419]

I apologize if I have made anyone feel uncomfortable with my perspective. Tough I must say that the reason I left organized religion is because of the many hypocrites that I have come in contact with, who argue that every aspect of the bible is either True or Relevant.
If Equality and Peace on earth is the goal, the kind of spiteful preaching and judgements that cookie and others have chosen to make, are definitely not the best approach to take. If this is the desired approach then perhaps a Theocracy is a better place for them to live. In america there is such a thing as civil rights, and I don't mind opinions but discrimination of any sort is wrong!!!!!!!
I have personally had some resurgence of religious thought, so know that you have helped to support those in opposition to your cause, and even helped draw me and others further away from Christianity.

I'm sorry but I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that disrespect or hate towards gays was acceptable nor is it Christ like but I think that you and others may other see preaching the Word as it is written which clearly condemns this lifestyle as being spiteful. Again we are to show LOVE but not to accept sin. Do you see the difference? We can show love to a murderer to show how Christ can change his life WITHOUT saying it's ok, you can keep murdering there is nothing wrong. I agree that are many christians that need to do a better job of this but for us to preach in our churches that homosexuality is wrong and then go to the polls and vote for gay marriage is hypocrisy, the very same reason you say you left. I'm sorry but for true believers, our faith carriers over into our lives outside the church walls and we have to walk in what we believe.

I can see you've had some resurgence but I can tell that there is some anger and hurt and it runs much deeper than anything I could have said here today. Whatever it is between you and the Lord and I will keep you in my prayers. Also remember there are hypocrites in EVERYTHING, just look at politics (MY LORD) so if you see churches or leaders who don't "WALK THE WALK" so to speak then that's on them and their relationship with God. It doesn't make the Word of God any less true, it just means man is still man... fallible, and nothing without God. We are to keep Christ as our ultimate example even if those around us waver.

I hope you see my words are not to attack or put down ( I wish I could put my arms around you). I'm honestly speaking from my heart and I truly apologize if it does not come across that way.

 

[Planetshaker]

That may be. But how would you feel if American Idol was being invaded by necrophiliacs?

My question to you is how can you relate homosexuality to people sexually attracted to dead people? Personally I think thats pretty messed up.

 

[Planetshaker]

Whether you believe that homosexuality is a sin or not, whether you believe acting upon it is sin, whether you believe homosexuals should have the right to be married - my question here is, if there was a talent show happening when jesus was here on earth and he was watching people perform, and these people happened to be gay, would Jesus stand up and say this is disgusting you people are disgusting and walk away, or would he love them and encourage them and spend time with them even when those who judge are pointing their finger at them?
I don't think the point here is whether its 'right' or 'wrong', I think it's about the so called christians of today who truley love and live God, and aren't just religious hypocrites who point fingers at people and think that somehow God gave them the right to do so.
Do you actually want to spread the word of love and hope and acceptance and walk in Jesus' footsteps, helping others see how God loves them, accepts them, wants to know them. Or do you want people to turn the other way because they feel judged and since we're the messengers of our God, to feel that God is a hating and discriminating God?


1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:1-3

 

[Planetshaker]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-FeUmJ4qtc[/video]


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEF1LpgfyM[/video]

 

[lightbliss]

My question to you is how can you relate homosexuality to people sexually attracted to dead people? Personally I think thats pretty messed up.

I really didn't want to post on this thread but...

I don't know his analogy or reasoning's but the Bible states both are abominations in God's eyes so....

 

[karuna]

I don't know his analogy or reasoning's but the Bible states both are abominations in God's eyes so....

Where does the Bible mention necrophilia?

 

[lightbliss]

Where does the Bible mention necrophilia?

It doesn't mention it per say but I gather it was prohibited and gross. Anyone that touched a dead body was "unclean" and with sex only between husband and wife, to actually have sex with a dead body, that pretty much is an abomination without having to say so.

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Numbers 19:11-22
“Whoever touches the dead body of any person shall be unclean seven days. He shall cleanse himself with the water on the third day and on the seventh day, and so be clean. But if he does not cleanse himself on the third day and on the seventh day, he will not become clean. Whoever touches a dead person, the body of anyone who has died, and does not cleanse himself, defiles the tabernacle of the Lord, and that person shall be cut off from Israel; because the water for impurity was not thrown on him, he shall be unclean. His uncleanness is still on him. “This is the law when someone dies in a tent: everyone who comes into the tent and everyone who is in the tent shall be unclean seven days. And every open vessel that has no cover fastened on it is unclean. ...

 

[karuna]

It doesn't mention it per say but I gather it was prohibited and gross.

That's my conclusion as well. The Bible doesn't mention it and doesn't call it an abomination. I'd like to point out that you've added to the Bible so that you can justify an innuendo about homosexuality.

Anyone that touched a dead body was "unclean" and with sex only between husband and wife, to actually have sex with a dead body, that pretty much is an abomination without having to say so.

Of course, we agree. But it didn't say so.

 

[lightbliss]

I'd like to point out that you've added to the Bible so that you can justify an innuendo about homosexuality.

That wasn't intentional, I thought somewhere in the Bible it said so. Also, I'm no trying to "justify an innuendo about homosexuality," so please don't give me that.

 

[aprilrenee1]

I despise this thread. Disrespectful. So wrong.

 

[lightbliss]

I have to say this.

Disgusting? We are called to love, which includes being respectful to others, regardless of their "sexuality." This is what gives followers of Christ (because that's what Christians are) a bad name.

If you really feel this way, keep it to yourself and I'll keep you in prayer, but please don't drag others into this "hate" regime.

 

[imTastik]

I despise this thread. Disrespectful. So wrong.

Yeah I do too....it's not fair it's just discrimination! Think it should be deleted!

 

[MeganneCheers]

Threads liek this make me sick. I was not comparing what's his name to Hitler.
I was saying his comparison was RUDE.
Why is hatred so pridominent in the Christian community?

It makes me sick.

 

[imTastik]

Yeh.....too right!!
My uncle said summat about politicians today and that the christian party were for gay christians he went "well there can't be gay christians".....of course there can....just cos they're gay it dunt mean they can't be a christian....it just means they're sinning like the rest of us!

 

[HarpyEagle]

There are a few things here that should help to remove the complication and frustration on this topic and a multitude of others and to shed light on what's behind what people are claiming and stating.

1. We were all sinners of all sorts living in Darkness.

2. We are all loved by God Sinners and Saints alike.

3. When we have put off our old selves and live a new life in Christ, we love those who are still in the darkness and accept them and share the truth with
them and in fellowship with them for a time.

4. If they are unable to receive the truth and persist that their ways and beliefs should be acceptable to God and Christians, you break fellowship with them. What has light to do with the darkness? By continuing to fellowship you are showing approval and acceptance of the sin. Now, these people are to still be loved and respected.

5. If they are open and will listen and not try to convince and soften up a Christian to compromise the Word of God and their convictions, such persons living in darkness can come to a place of brokenness and repentance and also accept the supernatural healing power of the Holy Spirit to break the yoke of bondage and stronghold that is on them. When they break free from this they will realize what they have been missing. Sin feels good, the emotions are there of pleasure and it seems ''natural'' but its the deception.

6. Now in the case of a Christian wanting to stay in church and fellowship with Christians, they simply must not be allowed. The rest of the body will see that its ''acceptable for Christians to live in sin'' and in so doing they will also feel that its acceptable for them to live in sin and be accepted to fellowship as part of the body. They are loved and respected, but they should not be allowed to fellowship with the rest until they have shown that they are willing to reconcile, otherwise they will pull down the others around them to their standards since they are ''accepted'' for living in sin and professing to live by God's Word, when they are not. This would be inconsistent and contradiction.

7. Don't bother to comment with ''All sins are alike'' and that everyone has sin -- that statement means nothing in and of itself. Now pay attention... Saints are those who repent of their sins and be refreshed and cleansed daily in a place of humility before God. Those who live in sin and are unrepentant, they will not enter into the Kingdom of heaven. And they are rejecting the cleansing blood of Jesus. No one is perfect, but can you now see the difference in how people deal with their sins? and those who are not repentant? It may take some time for them to realize this but by reading the living Word of God this is plain and simple, its not a mystery or secret as to how we must live in this fallen dark world. We are called out of it and to be set apart and set a standard. There is no ''hatred'' of those who are still living in Darkness by following God's word. And if scriptures are repeated to bring conviction to sin, it hurts and it seems negative and offensive simply because God had Judged and already made a determination of those who keep their sins and those who are repentant.

8. Be Blessed and let there be a proper perception of the people we are dealing with and in what context they should be related to. As you can see there are many factors that will determine how they are to be treated so we do not compromise with Sin and be accepting of it. Do not let anyone use manipulation to say that because you are not sympathetic and accepting of their sin that you are unsympathetic and unloving to them ( when you are in fact being loving and respectful to them ).

9. Be aware that there are all kinds of Christians, all sorts of denominations and doctrines, some are twisted and subjectively taught and biased. Do not blame all Christians because of the shortcoming of some. Not all Christians are alike, do not use the words ''You Christians'' to blanket everyone when some are clearly taught false things and are hateful or misguided. Not all Christians are saved. Some are just born into Christianity, never attend Church or read their bibles, some never confessed their sin and asked Jesus to be their Lord and Savior, still others live in sin and ''hide'' from the devil on Sunday by getting a ''Sunday cleansing'' from their 6 days a week sin.


10. The true born again regenerated and transformed believers of Jesus Christ are spirit filled and able to discern the word correctly by the assistance of the Holy Spirit, do not contradict the word of God in their words and living, are open to correction and their goal is to become sanctified and disciples of Jesus Christ, not just ''converts'' or being '' saved'. We have a high calling and growth is continuous. There are those who are young and are mature in their faith and walk, and there are 80 year old babies in Christ who refuse correction and have their ''own way'' out of their ''own experiences and wisdom'' or ''traditions they have grown up with''. But the wisdom and philosophy of man is foolishness to God, and without the Holy Spirit the things of the Spirit makes no sense.

May God Bless and and Show Christians and Non Believers the True Christianity so hat it can be separated from the false teachings and principles of those who claim to Follow Christ but are devoid of the Holy Spirit and unable to discern the word of God correctly.

 

[blessed419]

Harpy, WOW, very good you spoke with tru wisdom of the spirit. Thanks for putting it so eloquently. GOD BLESS YOU