"Getting Things Straight...

[TDidymas]

...What Then Is our Commission?"

Some dislike these Bible studies, which (to them) are heresies, hyper-grace,
and SUPER hyper-dispensationalism. We will let each diligent Bible student,
with The Spirit Of God Dwelling in them, review the info prayerfully and care-
fully, and then decide for themselves [in view of "good and bad works For
Judgment" (1Co 3:8-15)] with what they agree or not, ok?:

"...We trust that it has now been made abundantly clear that the commission
of our LORD to the eleven apostles, the so-called “great commission,” is not
the commission of the Church, the Body of Christ; it is not to be carried out
today. What then is our God-Given commission?...

...This could hardly be stated more clearly than it is in II Corinthians 5...

...“And all things are of God, Who Hath Reconciled us to Himself​

By Jesus Christ, and Hath Given to us the ministry of Reconciliation;​

To wit, that God Was In Christ, Reconciling the world Unto ​

Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and Hath ​

Committed Unto us The Word Of Reconciliation. ​

​

“Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God Did ​

Beseech you by us, we pray you in Christ’s Stead be ye Reconciled ​

to God. For He Hath Made Him To Be sin for us, [Him] Who Knew no ​

sin; that we might Be Made The Righteousness of God In Him.”...​

"

Correct? How then, do we "carry out" what was Committed TO the eleven, when This
Reconciliation Commission "Was Kept Secret By God, Until Revealed" TO Paul, FOR us?

FULL study is here

GRACE And Peace...

As well-respected as Stam has been, I think he is making a grave error in this article. Firstly, he states:
"indicating that “that gospel” which he preached to the Gentiles was not the same as the gospel which the apostles at Jerusalem had been preaching to the people of Israel. " What? there is a different gospel to the Jews than to the gentiles? I think NOT! "The everlasting gospel" of Revelation is the one and only gospel of Jesus Christ, and there is no other. His statement is not based on solid exegesis.

There are assumptions he is making that cause his error:
1. There are different gospels that are valid.
2. It must follow that the gospel changed from what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.
3. The command of Christ in Mat. 28 was spoken only to the 12 apostles (as he constantly refers).

The fact that "we" are ambassadors for Christ (the 1 Cor. passage) does not limit ambassadorship to the 1st Century. It has application for every one of us, if indeed we are concerned for how we portray the Christian life to the unbelieving world. If we are a kingdom of priests, as Peter declares, then we all have some function of spiritual priesthood to the unbelieving world.

It is unfortunate that many evangelists think (and preach) that every Christian is an evangelist. Yet this is another error that perhaps Stam is reacting against. I do not agree that the Great Commission means that every Christian must evangelize, because evangelists are gifts God gave to the churches, and not everyone is one, according to Eph. 4:11. But reacting against error doesn't justify creating another error.

The Great Commission is the same in Acts 1 as it is in Mat. 28, and is to the whole church, not to individuals. And the whole church is indeed continuing to fulfill it today. We show ourselves ambassadors of reconciliation, whenever we act according to what Christ commanded us in relation to others, namely to love others and bless others as if we all have been reconciled. This is how most Christians fulfill the commission, is that they teach others by example. IMO this is the nature of the command.

Mat. 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. " This is a major part of the Great Commission, and paramount to making disciples.

 

[Chester]

Do you obey this? Do you teach all that Christ taught? He taught to go see a priest and offer a sacrifice for healing. He taught against self-defense. If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off. I could go on and on...

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

If a person is in a setting where the law of the land requires following the OT guidelines for healing from leprosy, then by all means follow it. As far as the Sermon on the Mount - I endeavor to follow the whole thing literally . . .

I, by the way, do not know of anyone who has had their "right hand" be the reason they commit a sin. It is usually because of a choice of the will that they sin. So, study a little deeper to see what Jesus meant. . .

 

[John146]

If a person is in a setting where the law of the land requires following the OT guidelines for healing from leprosy, then by all means follow it. As far as the Sermon on the Mount - I endeavor to follow the whole thing literally . . .

I, by the way, do not know of anyone who has had their "right hand" be the reason they commit a sin. It is usually because of a choice of the will that they sin. So, study a little deeper to see what Jesus meant. . .

Take it literally. When you allegorize the bible, you can make it say anything you want. What in that passage indicates that it's not literal?

 

[Evmur]

The Great Commission to tell all nations about Jesus Christ and the ministry of reconciliation are two different aspects of the same job description. They are not contradictory, but complementary.

Sorry, I don't buy the interpretation that Matt. 28:18-20 does not apply to the church today.

nor me

 

[Evmur]

What do you mean by this? God's character doesn't change, but how he has dealt with man has obviously changed.

WE have changed ... God didn't change

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

a grave error in this article. Firstly, he states:
"indicating that “that gospel” which he preached to the Gentiles was not the same as the gospel which the apostles at Jerusalem had been preaching to the people of Israel. " What? there is a different gospel to the Jews than to the gentiles? I think NOT! "The everlasting gospel" of Revelation is the one and only gospel of Jesus Christ, and there is no other. His statement is not based on solid exegesis.

Why is obedience to God's Command 2 Timothy 2:15 and Bible study Rules
not "solid exegesis"?:

Approval Unto God/TWO Different Gospels

GRACE And Peace...

 

[John146]

Mat. 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. " This is a major part of the Great Commission, and paramount to making disciples.

Has this ever happened to you? Have you ever done a good work and lost people glorify God in heaven?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Correct? How then, do we "carry out" what was Committed TO the eleven, when This Reconciliation Commission "Was Kept Secret By God, Until Revealed" TO Paul, FOR us?

There is no need to make this distinction which is not warranted by Scripture. This is just more Hyper-Dispensationalism. Preaching the Gospel (the Great Commission) is in fact the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Blade]

Well GRACE_ambassador if you or anyone else does not want to " Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Then don't.

This "He was only talk to" does come in handy at times to back up what we personally believe. That being said do you ever have the need that desire within you to tell others about JESUS Christ you know that grace, love forgiveness He has shown you to others? Well you are doing the great commission.

 

[John146]

There is no need to make this distinction which is not warranted by Scripture. This is just more Hyper-Dispensationalism. Preaching the Gospel (the Great Commission) is in fact the ministry of reconciliation.

Should we teach all that Jesus gave to his twelve disciples, or should we teach all that Jesus gave to the Apostle Paul? Btw, they are not the same...

 

[Inquisitor]

For any cessationist, they still hold to God doing miracles and healing by His will. That hasn't changed.

They are very rare, but God still does.

The sign gifts though are a different matter. They were foundational.. associated with an immature Christianity that didn't have what we now do.

The other thing is Jesus being the same yesterday, today and forever, isn't about the gifts, but the surety of His promises and second coming.

A baffling post.

1 Corinthians 12:7-9
But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit...

Your saying that a rare healing and a rare miracle may still occur.

The spiritual gifts of wisdom, knowledge, and faith have ceased?

Life itself is a miracle, the heavens are a miracle, we are living in one tremendous miracle.

I would not dare restrict the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Should we teach all that Jesus gave to his twelve disciples, or should we teach all that Jesus gave to the Apostle Paul? Btw, they are not the same...

How can they not be the same? Just like the robe of Christ, the NT is seamless.

 

[John146]

How can they not be the same? Just like the robe of Christ, the NT is seamless.

Paul makes statement after statement that what was revealed to him had never been revealed before.

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

 

[John146]

How can they not be the same? Just like the robe of Christ, the NT is seamless.

What Paul taught had never been revealed before. Jesus didn’t teach it in his earthly ministry.

Romans 16:
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Evmur]

For any cessationist, they still hold to God doing miracles and healing by His will. That hasn't changed.

They are very rare, but God still does.

The sign gifts though are a different matter. They were foundational.. associated with an immature Christianity that didn't have what we now do.

The other thing is Jesus being the same yesterday, today and forever, isn't about the gifts, but the surety of His promises and second coming.

When cessationists say God still heals occasionally and does miracles they are opening a can of worms for themselves.

We must ask why? why did He heal this one and leave 10, 000 others who asked with faith unhealed? Does God love one more than another? perhaps He was in a good mood, He's had a hearty breakfast, perhaps He was in the loo or had fallen asleep [to quote Elijah] when these others were praying.

Perhaps it was just their lucky day, they had the winning ticket, they were in the right place at the right time. WHY?
Why was this one healed and not the 10, 000 other?

God is not a chance deal, He is not the destiny God, He is the God of pre-destiny, He does everything according to His eternal counsel, He planned our salvation out before the world began.

God heals because it is His will to heal. "if it be Thy will ... I will"

Jesus came not to do His own will but to do the Father's will, Jesus healed all who asked Him [and some who didn't]

Healing is part of salvation, when we are saved we are saved from ALL the works of the devil short of death only. To be saved means to be made every whit whole. We are saved by preaching ... if healing is not preached no-one gets healed.

 

[wattie]

When cessationists say God still heals occasionally and does miracles they are opening a can of worms for themselves.

We must ask why? why did He heal this one and leave 10, 000 others who asked with faith unhealed? Does God love one more than another? perhaps He was in a good mood, He's had a hearty breakfast, perhaps He was in the loo or had fallen asleep [to quote Elijah] when these others were praying.

Perhaps it was just their lucky day, they had the winning ticket, they were in the right place at the right time. WHY?
Why was this one healed and not the 10, 000 other?

God is not a chance deal, He is not the destiny God, He is the God of pre-destiny, He does everything according to His eternal counsel, He planned our salvation out before the world began.

God heals because it is His will to heal. "if it be Thy will ... I will"

Jesus came not to do His own will but to do the Father's will, Jesus healed all who asked Him [and some who didn't]

Healing is part of salvation, when we are saved we are saved from ALL the works of the devil short of death only. To be saved means to be made every whit whole. We are saved by preaching ... if healing is not preached no-one gets healed.

There weren't that many miracles recorded in the Bible itself. And they were for particular reasons and purposes. So it is today.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What Paul taught had never been revealed before. Jesus didn’t teach it in his earthly ministry.

This is specifically in relation to the Church. Which was a mystery to the OT prophets. And as we all know, revelation is progressive. But the revelation of the Church as the Body of Christ does not change any of Christ's teachings or those of the other apostles. And since Peter was thoroughly familiar with all the epistles of Paul, he would have learned about this, just like all the Christians of that time (and the other apostles too). So there is absolutely no need to try and make Paul's ministry different from that of the other apostles. Paul preached the Gospel to Jews first, then to Gentiles. Peter also preached the Gospel to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles. But each one was given a distinct ministry.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When cessationists say God still heals occasionally and does miracles they are opening a can of worms for themselves.

I'm not sure if that is what they actually say, since God does miracles daily. But the difference now is that His miracles are answers to prayers. They do not involve miracle-workers.

 

[Chester]

Take it literally. When you allegorize the bible, you can make it say anything you want. What in that passage indicates that it's not literal?

Perfect! I agree. Take everything literally unless there is a good clear reason that the passage is not literal.

For example: Matthew 28:18-20 - Jesus told this to his disciples, but there is nothing in the passage that indicates this was only for the disciples in that age and time period, so I take it as literally applicable to me today.

 

[John146]

This is specifically in relation to the Church.

Exactly! I'm part of the church, the body of Christ. Jesus was teaching the Jews about their manner of living in the promised kingdom which was at hand at the time of Christ. Jesus was not teaching to his body. Jesus used Paul to teach new doctrine to the body of Christ (made up of mostly Gentiles).