God, co-actor in Jesus' sufferings or contributive non-actor?

[LeeLoving]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

 

[Suze]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

Hi Lee , please forgive me for being a bit dim 😞 can u please ask your specific questions again ? I think I know what u r asking but I'm not sure and I don't want to misinterpret your questions and give u irrelevant answers . Thank you ❤️ .

 

[LeeLoving]

Hi Lee , please forgive me for being a bit dim 😞 can u please ask your specific questions again ? I think I know what u r asking but I'm not sure and I don't want to misinterpret your questions and give u irrelevant answers . Thank you ❤️ .

Sure. Did God personally take part in Jesus' sufferings or did he personally play no role at all? Not the same question given the details of my post, but close enough. Sorry for writing a hard to understand question.

My position is that God did not personally take part in Jesus' suffering but delivered him to the Romans to be put to death.

Romans 4:25
King James Version
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Acts 2:23
King James Version
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Matthew 27:46
King James Version
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

What spurred me making this thread is that I've noticed often people write about Jesus receiving God's punishment on the cross as if God personally punished Jesus on the cross, this doesn't seem to be what scripture says in my reading of it.

 

[GWH]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

The answer involves understanding the Trinity.
IMO the best answer is to view God the Father as being grieved by sin and
sharing His Son's pain inflicted by sinners (Gen. 6:6, Isa. 63:10, Eph. 4:30),
God the Son atoning for sin and suffering the pain that involved (Psa. 22:1-18, Isa. 53:3-12),
and God the Spirit helping repenters learn not to sin (John 16:7-15, Rom. 8:1-13),
so in heaven there will be no more pain and sorrow (John 16:16-24, 1Cor. 15:54-57, 2Cor. 7:10).

 

[Suze]

Sure. Did God personally take part in Jesus' sufferings or did he personally play no role at all? Not the same question given the details of my post, but close enough. Sorry for writing a hard to understand question.

My position is that God did not personally take part in Jesus' suffering but delivered him to the Romans to be put to death.

Romans 4:25
King James Version
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Acts 2:23
King James Version
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Matthew 27:46
King James Version
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

What spurred me making this thread is that I've noticed often people write about Jesus receiving God's punishment on the cross as if God personally punished Jesus on the cross, this doesn't seem to be what scripture says in my reading of it.

Sure. Did God personally take part in Jesus' sufferings or did he personally play no role at all? Not the same question given the details of my post, but close enough. Sorry for writing a hard to understand question.

My position is that God did not personally take part in Jesus' suffering but delivered him to the Romans to be put to death.

Romans 4:25
King James Version
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Acts 2:23
King James Version
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Matthew 27:46
King James Version
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

What spurred me making this thread is that I've noticed often people write about Jesus receiving God's punishment on the cross as if God personally punished Jesus on the cross, this doesn't seem to be what scripture says in my reading of it.

I understand now and I think I agree with u . The wages of sin is death , this is the punishment God declared but , Jesus didn't sin according to God . He was put to death by the Jewish religious establishment because they envied him and they convicted him of sin as an excuse to murder him . Remember what one of the others who were crucified next to Jesus said : Luke 23 V 39-41 , it seems he had more insight than all of those Jewish religious authorities put together !
And the third wasn't talking about the fact that he was being crucified for thieving because under Jewish law , death was not the punishments for theft . He's talking about the punishment that God declared for sin which has passed onto all of humanity because , we all sin but , Jesus did not . This thief had amazing understanding of his own and Jesus's situation .

 

[Suze]

I understand now and I think I agree with u . The wages of sin is death , this is the punishment God declared but , Jesus didn't sin according to God . He was put to death by the Jewish religious establishment because they envied him and they convicted him of sin as an excuse to murder him . Remember what one of the others who were crucified next to Jesus said : Luke 23 V 39-41 , it seems he had more insight than all of those Jewish religious authorities put together !
And the third wasn't talking about the fact that he was being crucified for thieving because under Jewish law , death was not the punishments for theft . He's talking about the punishment that God declared for sin which has passed onto all of humanity because , we all sin but , Jesus did not . This thief had amazing understanding of his own and Jesus's situation .

Thief not third 🙄 .

 

[notmywillbuthine]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

When it comes to Jesus' bruising, I think that three different parties were involved. I believe that God allowed it because Jesus did tell Pilate that he would have no power over him unless it had been given him from above. I also believe that the bruising itself was carried out by men. Earlier in Isaiah 53, Isaiah said that Jesus was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, that the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and that by his stripes we are healed, and I believe that the wounds, bruises, chastisement, and stripes were all inflicted upon Jesus at the hands of human beings. I am inclined to believe that Satan had a part in the bruises as well. God did tell the serpent in the garden of Eden that he would bruise Jesus' heel. The Hebrew word for "bruise" there isn't the same word used in Isaiah 53, but Jesus did tell those who wanted to kill him that they were fulfilling the lusts of their father, the devil, so I think that we can rightly include Satan in Jesus' bruising

When it comes to the propitiation part, I think that only involves God and Jesus. A propitiation is an appeasing expiatory sacrifice or an atonement, and Jesus accomplished that when he went into the holy place of the true tabernacle in heaven with his own blood as God had foreordained that he would.

 

[homwardbound]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

The view I see, I have two children, I love them. they both have done wrong and each deserve death. I get told one has to die, the other gets to live, and then have to choose who dies and who lives!
in the process of making the decision who lives and the other dies, I saw, no way possible can I choose who dies. So I say no way, I will go in their stead, neither child dies, I will die in their place, okay!

Now, one anyone might see what God has done for us all, loving us all, seeing us all as worthy of God's love for us all, and dies once for us all to get new life in his risen Life given us each.
PaPa's heart, that is what David saw this love beyond any normal flesh nature understanding.
When he saw he not only did wrong to Bathsheba and her Husband, and tried to cover it up, saw, the most important of all and said not only had he done wrong to them, he most importantly did it to God all in all and repented, 9changed his mind to trust God only. Became a man after God's Heart loving us all.
This floors me, to see this unfathomable love for us all, even though we all deserve death as well. God chose us all worthy of love, otherwise Son would not have gone to that cross to reconcile us all as forgiven first. To give us new life in his risen Son's life. Wow, Lord I accept, and thank you deeply, wow woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

 

[Daisy2]

Why Does God Allow Suffering || Dr Billy Graham #billygraham #billygrahamshorts

Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus? Matthew 26:53-54

 

[tablet123]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

God did not inflict any suffering upon Jesus and did not harm Him in any way.

It means God allowed it to happen for our salvation but it was done by the hands of humans.

 

[DavidLamb]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

God did not inflict any suffering upon Jesus and did not harm Him in any way.

It means God allowed it to happen for our salvation but it was done by the hands of humans.

If it meant what you say, that God merely allowed it to happen, why does it not say something such as: "Yet it pleased the LORD to allow Him to be bruised; he hath allowed Him to be put to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."?

 

[Suze]

If it meant what you say, that God merely allowed it to happen, why does it not say something such as: "Yet it pleased the LORD to allow Him to be bruised; he hath allowed Him to be put to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."?

Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , who killed that first lamb to make those skins for Adam and Eve ?

 

[DeepSeeker]

Acts 2:22-24
King James Version
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Isaiah 53:10
King James Version
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Just making a thread on this subject because I often hear and see people write things like "Jesus took the punishment for our sins" and etc. as if God inflicted personal punishment on Jesus himself. This doesn't seem to be what scripture says though, as these two verses indicate (though the second verse might require careful reading - it can be read as if God only made his soul an offering for sin and that is how he bruised him). It seems to be from these two verses that God was only a contributive non-actor in Jesus' sufferings delivering him over to suffer his execution for our sins. I was just wondering what other people's views on this was. Also it's interesting to wonder how Jesus could be the propitiation for our sins if God was not personally delivering the punishment for our sins (to deliver the exact justice required for the sins that were laid on him), and how he bare our sins in his body as it says in 1 Peter 2:24 if his executioners had no idea they were inflicting the penalty of our sins on him. Something extraordinarily remarkable must have been happening indeed.

YE MEN OF ISREAL here ... !

 

[DeepSeeker]

Why is it that so many take what was written To Isreal, FOR Isreal; and apply It to Today? ?
DeepSeeker

 

[DavidLamb]

Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , who killed that first lamb to make those skins for Adam and Eve ?

God did. You seem to be agreeing with what I said.

 

[DeepSeeker]

Which Gospel was for Isreal only, and which Ine is for All Today ? ? How many programs did God set up, and for whom, When?
DeepSeeker

 

[DeepSeeker]

Suze: IF Christ is The Lamb slain from the foundation of this world; who was He ? ?

 

[DeepSeeker]

REV. 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ {His unveiling of the Devine mysteries]. GOD

Is This age of Today a short Time from the events given? ? Are We His SERVANTS ? ?

DeepSeeker

 

[DeepSeeker]

Latter comment on Revelation.

THIS is the revelation of Jesus Christ {His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave TO HIM to disclose and make known TO HIS BOND SERVANTS certain things WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. ! !

Why then do people keep trying to force This Writing into This Age ? ?

 

[DeepSeeker]

What was Paul sent to do ? By whom? To whom was He sent to give His message ?