God did away with some of His own sayings

[gotime]

Blessings for obedience, curses for disobedience. Go under the Law and tell me how that works for you. Then come back to me and tell me how much you need Jesus to be in His rest and realize that indeed the Old Covenant is a works based covenant. One that you will gladly be set free from and take Jesus up on His offer of His yoke being easy and burden being light.

The Old Covenant was not just as much "faith by grace" as the New Covenant, this is clearly said throughout scripture. The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus. I also would like to share these verses with you... from Romans 4.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

The Law is not just like a covenant of faith and grace, not at all.

Here is your problem, you clearly do not know or understand the Old Covenant. and thus your use of the New is out of wack. Simply put, without a proper understanding of the Old one is simply unequipped to fully grasp the new. one will easily take things from the New testament and put a spin on them that is not intended. That was my whole point.

You say the Old Covenant is works based and this displayed that you do not know the Old covenant or understand it. I am sure you won't agree with me here and that is fine but your wrong none the less. I am not trying to be arrogant and judgmental.If I am right then I am simply pointing out the truth and that is not arrogant at all.

Show the Old covenant was works based by using the Old Covenant. If your point holds water you should not need the new to prove it.

 

[BenFTW]

Here is your problem, you clearly do not know or understand the Old Covenant. and thus your use of the New is out of wack. Simply put, without a proper understanding of the Old one is simply unequipped to fully grasp the new. one will easily take things from the New testament and put a spin on them that is not intended. That was my whole point.

You say the Old Covenant is works based and this displayed that you do not know the Old covenant or understand it. I am sure you won't agree with me here and that is fine but your wrong none the less. I am not trying to be arrogant and judgmental.If I am right then I am simply pointing out the truth and that is not arrogant at all.

Show the Old covenant was works based by using the Old Covenant. If your point holds water you should not need the new to prove it.

I don't have enough space in this post to write out all 613 Laws, sorry.

 

[Ariel82]

The old covenant was given because the people asked Moses to be a prophet to them instead of allowing God to speak with them directly,the old testament prophecies when the old covenant of people speaking indirectly to God through priest and prophets will be done away with.

It speaks of the new covenant and some know of being spiritually circumcised, they are called the remnant,the prophets. However, the old covenant is law based..the new covenant is graced based. Grace saves in both old and new testament but the law was give to show people their need for a savior. There is more than one covenant in the old testament..the one with Abraham and the one with Moses are different.

The difference between the true Gospel and other religions is grace versus works based salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

The promise given to Abraham was given to his Seed not seeds, refering to Christ Jesus, Galatians 3 v 16

The covenant given to Moses was replaced by Jesus sacrifice on the cross.

All in all both covenants point to Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is your problem, you clearly do not know or understand the Old Covenant. and thus your use of the New is out of wack. Simply put, without a proper understanding of the Old one is simply unequipped to fully grasp the new. one will easily take things from the New testament and put a spin on them that is not intended. That was my whole point.

You say the Old Covenant is works based and this displayed that you do not know the Old covenant or understand it. I am sure you won't agree with me here and that is fine but your wrong none the less. I am not trying to be arrogant and judgmental.If I am right then I am simply pointing out the truth and that is not arrogant at all.

Show the Old covenant was works based by using the Old Covenant. If your point holds water you should not need the new to prove it.

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

Sure seems David himself understood no one was saved or made righteous by the Old Covenant.

But people who want to be placed under rules and regulations so they can feel good about how good they are (while failing to realise how sinful they are) do not want to see truth.

You want to see why the old could never make us righteous? Moses made the requirement as given by God.

[h=1]Deuteronomy 27:26‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’
[/h]“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’



So, How good have you obeyed the law by this requirement?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying Jesus rose the standard of the Law, making it harder to save yourself? I think He was revealing the full extent of the Law and saying you can't keep it no matter how hard you try. He was presenting the requirement of perfection and that we are unable to be perfect in and of ourselves, self-righteousness never saves. Do you practice the spiritual all the time? If not, then where is your basis for security, or assurance in your salvation?

Sadly, What Jesus was doing was proving the law was inadequate to even show us how to be righteous people.

The law said do not commit adultery. It did not say if you looked at a woman with lust you have failed to obey it, Of course I have showed just-me this to prove the law can not make us good people over a year ago. And he rejected that belief, but thats on him.

 

[Ariel82]

No one from Egypt not even Moses got to cross over theJordan to the promise land except one person.... They rejected God's plan of salvation and asked for the Law and old covenant given through Moses. Laws they did not keep, a covenant that forced them to see that they were sinners in need of God's grace.

Grace given because of faith not obedience to laws, but a humble and repentant heart. It is when people come before God for forgivenes that the true Gospel is learnt.

 

[just-me]

No one from Egypt not even Moses got to cross over theJordan to the promise land except one person.... They rejected God's plan of salvation and asked for the Law and old covenant given through Moses. Laws they did not keep, a covenant that forced them to see that they were sinners in need of God's grace.

Grace given because of faith not obedience to laws, but a humble and repentant heart. It is when people come before God for forgivenes that the true Gospel is learnt.

I think it was 2 people Joshuah from Ephraim and Caleb from Judah. Do you have scripture that says God offered Israel the plan of salvation before the giving of the law?

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think it was 2 people Joshuah from Ephraim and Caleb from Judah. Do you have scripture that says God offered Israel the plan of salvation before the giving of the law?

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

Just for the record, an entire generation that left Egypt entered the promised land. Only those who were 20 years and older at the time of transgression were denied entry.

What is the 'plan of salvation'? The proclamation of the good news?

For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us [under the new covenant], just as they did [under the old covenant]; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. Hebrews 4:2​

The good news that the Israelites were to be GOD's people if they obeyed his voice was proclaimed through Moses before the law was given.

Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites. Exodus 19:5​

 

[just-me]

Just for the record, an entire generation that left Egypt entered the promised land. Only those who were 20 years and older at the time of transgression were denied entry.

What is the 'plan of salvation'? The proclamation of the good news?

For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us [under the new covenant], just as they did [under the old covenant]; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. Hebrews 4:2​

The good news that the Israelites were to be GOD's people if they obeyed his voice was proclaimed through Moses before the law was given.

Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites. Exodus 19:5​

You are right. Everybody 20 years of age or under who left Egypt entered into the promised land except some who belonged to rebellious families like Korah. The only 2 over that age were Joshuah and Caleb. I was wondering if there was a scripture that said that we can related the salvation of Israel to the same kind of salvation the God offers through Christ.

And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.Exodus 14:13

The only relationship that I have noticed between Jesus Christ and Israel, in this respect, is that Jesus rose from the dead approximately 35 generations later on the same day Israel crossed the Red Sea.

 

[Ariel82]

I think it was 2 people Joshuah from Ephraim and Caleb from Judah. Do you have scripture that says God offered Israel the plan of salvation before the giving of the law?

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

Genesis 3 when God tells the serpent that eve's seed will crush the head of the serpents offspring refers to the Redeemer Christ.

Covering of nakedness with animals skins by God symbolizes Christ righteous and imputation work of the cross.

Job 19 speak of his Reedemer walking upon the earth in the future telling of the coming of Christ.

Do you need more examples of God's salvation plan before the giving of the old covenant through Moses?

 

[Ariel82]

How long were they in the desert?

 

[just-me]

No one from Egypt not even Moses got to cross over theJordan to the promise land except one person.... They rejected God's plan of salvation and asked for the Law and old covenant given through Moses. Laws they did not keep, a covenant that forced them to see that they were sinners in need of God's grace.

Grace given because of faith not obedience to laws, but a humble and repentant heart. It is when people come before God for forgivenes that the true Gospel is learnt.

Genesis 3 when God tells the serpent that eve's seed will crush the head of the serpents offspring refers to the Redeemer Christ.

Covering of nakedness with animals skins by God symbolizes Christ righteous and imputation work of the cross.

Job 19 speak of his Reedemer walking upon the earth in the future telling of the coming of Christ.

Do you need more examples of God's salvation plan before the giving of the old covenant through Moses?

Sorry, I was under the understanding that you were referencing only Israel during the lifetime of Moses and Aaron.

 

[Ariel82]

Numbers 32 v. 13 says 40 years

 

[Ariel82]

Sorry, I was under the understanding that you were referencing only Israel during the lifetime of Moses and Aaron.

It's alright. I prefer looking at the whole Bible and it was two people but still those who begged for the old covenant laws and prophets instead of the indwelling Holy spirit died in the wilderness and did not enter God's rest.

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>Covering of nakedness with animals skins by God symbolizes Christ righteous and imputation work of the cross.<<<

Sorry but your are GOING TOO FAR. Animal skins covering nakedness do NOT represent Jesus righteousness and imputed work of the cross. The clothing of ANIMAL SKINS was specifically to demonstrate SACRIFICE, which covered Adam and Eve's sin. The scriptural lesson is SIN and Sacrifice.... had Adam and Eve NOT eaten of the tree of knowledge... SIN would never have been an issue. Christ was ALREADY present from the beginning. Adam and Eve were not being "pointed" to Christ... they were being taught about THEIR sin.

 

[just-me]

Alas! A decent edifying conversation!

 

[just-me]

>>>Covering of nakedness with animals skins by God symbolizes Christ righteous and imputation work of the cross.<<<

Sorry but your are GOING TOO FAR. Animal skins covering nakedness do NOT represent Jesus righteousness and imputed work of the cross. The clothing of ANIMAL SKINS was specifically to demonstrate SACRIFICE, which covered Adam and Eve's sin. The scriptural lesson is SIN and Sacrifice.... had Adam and Eve NOT eaten of the tree of knowledge... SIN would never have been an issue. Christ was ALREADY present from the beginning. Adam and Eve were not being "pointed" to Christ... they were being taught about THEIR sin.

I agree. There is only one scripture reference in the NT that says "atonement," which is a covering. All the rest that are related to salvation is the "remission" of sins like a cancer that is cured step by step.

 

[Ariel82]

If no one over twenty was allowed to cross except two, and they left Egypt 40 years earlier and wandered the desert, then all who left Egypt except two died in the wilderness. Only their children born in the wilderness cross over.

Salvation only through grace and faith. For the law makes no one righteous but condemns all as sinners falling short of the glory of God.

The only "good news"/ gospel I will hear is Christ crucified for our salvation and that our Redeemed lives!

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>It's alright. I prefer looking at the whole Bible and it was two people but still those who begged for the old covenant laws and prophets instead of the indwelling Holy spirit died in the wilderness and did not enter God's rest.<<<

Um... who begged for the old covenant??? the Isrealites? Since the NEW COVENANT was not put into effect until Jesus lived and DIED.... how would the isrealites get the INDWELLING Holy Spirit???