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God or Guns?
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D
Donkeyfish07
Guest
There's a saying in the middle east that sums it up perfectly. "Trust in God, but tie your camel"
J
Jullianna
Guest
-'Hi everyone. I am Jesus, and I let my persecutors take me and kill me without a fight. So that Gods glory could be shown.
Hi everyone, I'm Lot, and I offered my two daughters in faith that the rapist men wouldnt harm the two undercover angels that I took in. My faith rewarded me. My faughters nor the angels were harmed.
Hi, Im Abraham, and I almost sacrificed my son for God. But he stopped me.
Hi, I'm a modern day Christian, but I think shooting someone is okay if they try to take my TV .....
Hi everyone, I'm Lot, and I offered my two daughters in faith that the rapist men wouldnt harm the two undercover angels that I took in. My faith rewarded me. My faughters nor the angels were harmed.
Hi, Im Abraham, and I almost sacrificed my son for God. But he stopped me.
Hi, I'm a modern day Christian, but I think shooting someone is okay if they try to take my TV .....
N
needmesomejesus
Guest
Maybe it's God's will to protect my family. I want to know I did everything in my power to save my family. If my husband or a child fell sick I wouldn't just pray and hope for the best; I'd take them to the hospital to see what the doctors can do to help. God allowed doctors to help save people; I believe it is the same with the gun. How other people choose to use guns is not my problem. I know I will use to for good; to save those I love.
I have to say that I think it is a shame that people will misuse the bible to promote their own personal agendas. This seems very evident in this thread, and even in the creation of this thread.
The bible makes it very clear that there is a difference between murder and defending one's self, family, and property. It also makes it clear that we live in the world, and we have to make decisions every day that are based on our experience, reason, and statistical odds, as well as our faith in God.
We are expected to have an active faith in Jesus Christ. This means that we make decisions every day that cause us to act in ways that promote the kingdom of God. Nowhere in the bible are we told to sit back passively and allow our families to be brutalized by armed intruders into our homes.
There is no consistency in the arguments being made. On the one hand we are being told to not arm ourselves and God will take care of us. On the other hand we are told to wear seat belts, to protect OURSELVES in an accident. Which is it?
Should we do like some of the Amish do and not innoculate our children against polio and other debilitating diseases? If your logic and "faith" is consistent, I would think that you should not. Do you have as much faith as the Amish do?
If your neighbors are sick or hungry, do you just pray for God to help them? Why not? Don't you have faith? I believe that to help the neighbors, I should go next door and take them food and medicine or whatever they need. This is what God expects us to do.
Christ is the head of the Church and we are the body. Jesus expects us to help ourselves, and others. God endowed us with intelligence, and reason, and a conscience, in order that we should act on our faith. As James said, faith without works is dead.
I will give just two examples of the misuse of Scripture in the promotion of the theme of this thread.
Jesus said that if someone hits you on the cheek, offer him the other one also.
Does this mean that if someone breaks into your home and rapes one of your two teenage daughters that you should offer him the other one also?
The one about Job not getting a weapon to protect his family against a windstorm. What weapon should he have chosen?
I cringe at this blatant misuse of Scriptures. You just keep throwing out Scriptures that have nothing to do with the argument, as if somehow a quantity of scriptures quoted will somehow win your agrument for you. If you have a personal vendetta against guns, please take it somewhere else, and don't misuse bible verses to promote a misguided view that we are to do nothing to prepare against possible attacks against our families. Your views are more a faith in your own arrogance that you are somehow more godly than others, than in an active faith that God expects us to have.
The bible makes it very clear that there is a difference between murder and defending one's self, family, and property. It also makes it clear that we live in the world, and we have to make decisions every day that are based on our experience, reason, and statistical odds, as well as our faith in God.
We are expected to have an active faith in Jesus Christ. This means that we make decisions every day that cause us to act in ways that promote the kingdom of God. Nowhere in the bible are we told to sit back passively and allow our families to be brutalized by armed intruders into our homes.
There is no consistency in the arguments being made. On the one hand we are being told to not arm ourselves and God will take care of us. On the other hand we are told to wear seat belts, to protect OURSELVES in an accident. Which is it?
Should we do like some of the Amish do and not innoculate our children against polio and other debilitating diseases? If your logic and "faith" is consistent, I would think that you should not. Do you have as much faith as the Amish do?
If your neighbors are sick or hungry, do you just pray for God to help them? Why not? Don't you have faith? I believe that to help the neighbors, I should go next door and take them food and medicine or whatever they need. This is what God expects us to do.
Christ is the head of the Church and we are the body. Jesus expects us to help ourselves, and others. God endowed us with intelligence, and reason, and a conscience, in order that we should act on our faith. As James said, faith without works is dead.
I will give just two examples of the misuse of Scripture in the promotion of the theme of this thread.
Jesus said that if someone hits you on the cheek, offer him the other one also.
Does this mean that if someone breaks into your home and rapes one of your two teenage daughters that you should offer him the other one also?
The one about Job not getting a weapon to protect his family against a windstorm. What weapon should he have chosen?
I cringe at this blatant misuse of Scriptures. You just keep throwing out Scriptures that have nothing to do with the argument, as if somehow a quantity of scriptures quoted will somehow win your agrument for you. If you have a personal vendetta against guns, please take it somewhere else, and don't misuse bible verses to promote a misguided view that we are to do nothing to prepare against possible attacks against our families. Your views are more a faith in your own arrogance that you are somehow more godly than others, than in an active faith that God expects us to have.
B
BarlyGurl
Guest
Nice to meet you modern day christian... you have a hard time understanding the bible... keep at it though... that's how you grow and gain maturity to have RIGHT THINKING.
Who is harmed by wearing a seatbelt of a hard hat?
Who is harmed by shooting a gun at someone?
Lot offered his two daughters to people who wanted to sodomize his guests ...
Let the sinners sin. Turn the other cheek. Do not repay hatred with hatred. Do not murder/kill.
He who hates his brother commits murder in his heart.
When I sent you out without moneybag or sword, what did you lack? They answered 'nothing'. But now let he who does not have a sword, sell his clothes and buy one.
Ie. If you want to fight, go and fight. Note, only one of the disciples misunderstood this. Judas.
Forgive them father, they know not what they do.
Question, did Jesus carry a sword? Cause we're meant to be like he is.
That is a good and sensible post Dave and thank you for it. As you know it is the LOVE of money that is the root of evil, so what do you think Jesus would have said to the view that like money it is the LOVE of guns that is also the root of evil?
Forgive this person Father, whose pride in their own faith has made him self righteous.
Oh I get it .. so forgiveness and self sacrifice are actually just products of circumstance ... Now i understand.
So if there had been less people then Lot could have just pumped a fistful of shot into the sodomites and hid their bodies in the back yard ....
I believe I'd have to be pretty proud to give reasons where murder is ok.
It is God's to repay with vengeance.
And it is vengeance to kill someone under the guise of defence.
This person has come into my house, so i will avenge their trespass ...
Then obviously with your pro-gun stance you are going to need to twist these scriptures. Would you like to give us all a lesson in how to do it please.
Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill.
Deuteronomy 5:17: Thou shalt not kill.
Matthew 5:21: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.
Romans 13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
I'll give you an example. About six years ago, two men came into my dad's house and left him in the intensive care unit.
You would think my first reaction would be shock, or anger. and there was a little of both. But do you know what the overwhelming feeling I had was?
Disgust for the violence. And the perpetrators. I didn't hate them. But what they'd done, how can a human do that to another?
And you know what, had my father killed those two men, I would have felt the same disgust.
Now, he personally knew the men who did this. And he was angry, for a long time. He talked abiut revenge
and I tried to calm his nerves.
And you know, he has since realised the people who care about him. And he has a better life for it. He has no guilt because he did not partake in the violence. He was simply a victim. His conscience is clear.
I am glad he was a victim and not a perpetrator. I am glad he never took a vengaence. He is happy now. And has people in his life who he can trust.
He still hasn't forgiven the men. But he has stopped hating. He sees a counsellor. And his view on life is so much better than before this incident happened. He has found value in life.
He did not succumb to his urge for vengaence or violence. And he is being rewarded for it.
You would think my first reaction would be shock, or anger. and there was a little of both. But do you know what the overwhelming feeling I had was?
Disgust for the violence. And the perpetrators. I didn't hate them. But what they'd done, how can a human do that to another?
And you know what, had my father killed those two men, I would have felt the same disgust.
Now, he personally knew the men who did this. And he was angry, for a long time. He talked abiut revenge
and I tried to calm his nerves.
And you know, he has since realised the people who care about him. And he has a better life for it. He has no guilt because he did not partake in the violence. He was simply a victim. His conscience is clear.
I am glad he was a victim and not a perpetrator. I am glad he never took a vengaence. He is happy now. And has people in his life who he can trust.
He still hasn't forgiven the men. But he has stopped hating. He sees a counsellor. And his view on life is so much better than before this incident happened. He has found value in life.
He did not succumb to his urge for vengaence or violence. And he is being rewarded for it.
Whew! I thought you were unreasonable. But it's not that at all. You just don't know your vocabulary.
Murder: The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.
Now, since the Ten Commandments were initiated before the Israelites conquered Palestine, and they were told to conquer it, one, at least a reasonable person, would have to assume that there ARE LAWFUL reasons for killing, which WOULD NOT constitute murder.