God's Children Were Individually Always His Children From All Eternity Past

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
6,289
1,599
113
God's Children Were Individually Always His Children From All Eternity Past
The phrase "children of God" is tossed around constantly on religious threads, but Scripture draws a clear line regarding who actually belongs to His family. The free-will belief always blurs the line by assuming that every biological human being is automatically a child of God by default of creation. In the earthly, physical realm that is true, but not in the spiritual realm.
When we look at Scripture closely, God's children were always specifically and individually identified as His children in eternity past. They alone are the specific group elected to eternal life and salvation before the foundation of the world. Those who are saved in this world become so only because they were His children in eternity past, while the others, not. Scripture explicitly divides mankind into two completely separate groups based on God's decree, not human willpower. Please consider the following verses.

First, look at Ephesians 1:4–5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Notice, however, that the word translated as "children" here is literally "sons" (huiothesia) in the original language. Yet, in Scripture, His children are never adopted only His sons are, so by being translated as "children" it is misleading in that context. If "his children" is analyzed throughout the New Testament, we see that is a different word than was used in Eph 1:4 - 5. The elect were always God's children in eternity past, but they are placed into sonship and inheritance in this world by predestination by being His children before the foundation of the world, leaving zero room for human choice to cause it.

Second, look at Galatians 4:1–6: "Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father... And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

Notice that the elect are explicitly defined as heirs and lords of all while they are still walking in darkness, and the Holy Spirit is sent into their hearts precisely because they already belonged to the Father as His children from eternity past.

Third, look at John 17:6: "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." Notice that Christ explicitly states that the elect belonged to the Father before they were ever given to the Son in time, proving that their identity as being part of the Father’s family was a settled fact in eternity past before they ever did a single thing in this world.
Fourth, look at Romans 9:8: "Them which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Notice that Scripture flatly denies that general human creation or biological birth makes someone a child of God, drawing a permanent line between the flesh and the promise.

Fifth, look at Romans 9:11–13: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Notice that these verses imply that Jacob and his spiritual offspring were the Father’s children before they were even in the womb. The family lineage and God's love were fixed before they were born or had done any good or evil, proving that the eternal election of His children determines who are part of the family, completely leaving out human willpower or works.
Sixth, look at 1 John 3:10: "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." Notice that the Holy Spirit explicitly names two distinct groups, not one, on the earth, completely destroying the narrative of a universal fatherhood.

Seventh, look at John 8:44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him."

Notice that Christ explicitly tells the unregenerate religious crowd that their spiritual lineage is determined by their father the devil, proving that a person's father was fixed by their origin from all eternity past.

Eight, look at John 8:47: "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

Notice that Christ establishes a fixed divine order where being of God is the cause, and hearing His words is the effect. He flatly tells them that their inability to hear and believe is because they are not of God, proving that a person's eternal identity determines their capacity to respond, leaving zero room for free will.
This collective testimony shows that being a child of God is an issue determined by identity in God's eternal family, predestination, and being born of God. If a person's spiritual father was settled by an unbreakable decree from eternity past, how can human choice alter the family line?



 
  • Like
Reactions: Researcher
The children of God could not of been from eternity past because then they would not have a beginning and only God has no beginning.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

God wants all people to be saved so we have a choice in our salvation since all people will not be saved.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

God does the calling and choosing on earth.

If God chose who would be saved in the beginning without their choice then why is He calling people on earth but not choosing them.

So we have a choice in our salvation.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth.

And when they get to the door of truth if they get there then they have to make the choice to accept the truth for God's kingdom is true love.

But they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intercede in their life.

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2 Timothy 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everybody that is called accepts the truth so they are not chosen.

They deny the Spirit leading them to be Christlike for they will not give up the flesh.

And love sin more than God and do not come to the truth.

People that say they cannot abstain from sin are holding on to sin and fall in to this category.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If a person hates sin and allows the Spirit to lead them they can be Christlike so there is no excuse.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

Predestination means that God had the plan of salvation to give to mankind before He laid down the foundation of the world.

But this salvation is to whoever wants it for God wants all people to be saved.

How can people be saved in the beginning when they cannot be saved until they accept Jesus for only by His shed blood are we saved which did not happen in the beginning.

And we have a choice because many are called but few are chosen.

The children of God could not of been from eternity past because then they would not have a beginning and only God has no beginning.
 
First, look at Ephesians 1:4–5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."
A more accurate way to look at this is that by establishing a system where Christ died for sins a means could be established where by whosoever trusting in Christ could be saved. What was predestined was the opportunity for salvation through faith in Christ.
 
The children of God could not of been from eternity past because then they would not have a beginning and only God has no beginning.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

God wants all people to be saved so we have a choice in our salvation since all people will not be saved.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

God does the calling and choosing on earth.

If God chose who would be saved in the beginning without their choice then why is He calling people on earth but not choosing them.

So we have a choice in our salvation.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth.

And when they get to the door of truth if they get there then they have to make the choice to accept the truth for God's kingdom is true love.

But they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intercede in their life.

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2 Timothy 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everybody that is called accepts the truth so they are not chosen.

They deny the Spirit leading them to be Christlike for they will not give up the flesh.

And love sin more than God and do not come to the truth.

People that say they cannot abstain from sin are holding on to sin and fall in to this category.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If a person hates sin and allows the Spirit to lead them they can be Christlike so there is no excuse.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

Predestination means that God had the plan of salvation to give to mankind before He laid down the foundation of the world.

But this salvation is to whoever wants it for God wants all people to be saved.

How can people be saved in the beginning when they cannot be saved until they accept Jesus for only by His shed blood are we saved which did not happen in the beginning.

And we have a choice because many are called but few are chosen.

The children of God could not of been from eternity past because then they would not have a beginning and only God has no beginning.

Tablet123, your wall of verses does not align with the plain, literal definitions of the text, and your timeline changes the biblical order of operations. Please consider the actual legal mechanics of the scriptural record.

First, the claim that the children of God could not be from eternity past because only God has no beginning misses the point. I am not saying that human biological bodies had no beginning. I am saying that they were chosen as children in eternity past, which is a beginningless, eternal decree. There never were God's children not His children. Ephesians 1:4 states flatly that He chose us in Him "before the foundation of the world." If the choosing happened before the creation of time, then the ledger of His family was a settled forensic reality from all eternity past. To deny this timeline changes the words on the page.

Second, look at the use of 2 Peter 3:9. The text says God is longsuffering "to us-ward," not willing that any should perish. As 2 Peter 1:1 explicitly establishes, Peter is writing his letter strictly to a specific group: "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us." Therefore, the "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 is strictly governed by the "us-ward," which is the elect church. Furthermore, if God is not willing that any should perish and yet some are cast into outer darkness, then God's will has been defeated by man's willpower. That turns man into the sovereign ruler of the universe and makes God a helpless bystander.

Third, you quote Matthew 22:14 to claim people become chosen on earth after they choose to accept the truth. This reverses the biblical order. Ephesians 1:4 proves that the choosing happened before the foundation of the world, long before anyone is ever called in time. It is important to note that while verse 4 addresses that His eternal children were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, verse 5 explicitly states something different by establishing that they were predestinated unto the placement of sons (huiothesia), not generic children. The general call goes out to the ears of many on earth, but the internal, life-giving call only manifests in time because the person was already chosen in eternity past as His son. Human choice does not cause a person to become chosen; God's eternal election is what causes a person to believe.

Fourth, your argument on Romans 4:17 actually establishes the eternal timeline. You wrote yourself that if it is a plan of God, "it will surely come to pass with no hindrance." If God's plan surely comes to pass with absolute zero hindrance, then human free will can neither cause it nor stop it. Calling things that be not as though they were means that in the mind and unyielding decree of God, the exact identity of His family was a fixed, finished, and unalterable transaction before the world began.

Fifth, you ask how people can be saved in the beginning before the shed blood of Jesus. I am not saying the elect physically experienced justification before being born in time. I am saying that they were chosen as His children in eternity past to receive justification in time because the entire blood contract was already a completed transaction in the mind of God. Revelation 13:8 states that the Lamb was "slain from the foundation of the world." God made salvation strictly a family affair where the family's father rescues only his children with no responsibility to do so for any others. Christ did not buy a generic opportunity on the cross; He bought an absolute, finished victory for His specific family.


 
A more accurate way to look at this is that by establishing a system where Christ died for sins a means could be established where by whosoever trusting in Christ could be saved. What was predestined was the opportunity for salvation through faith in Christ.

Timf, the claim that God only predestined an "opportunity" for salvation changes the literal text of Scripture to protect a free-will framework. Look at the literal words of Ephesians 1:4. Paul does not say God predestined an abstract opportunity or a generic backup plan. He writes that God has "chosen us in him." The direct object of the text is specific, individual people who are His children, and not a vague possibility. This matches the legal architecture of Galatians 4:1–5, which proves that salvation is strictly a family rescue mission. The text explains that the heir is already a child, and Christ was sent into time specifically to redeem them so that they might receive the formal placement of sons. Furthermore, Hebrews 10:14 states that by one offering Christ has "perfected for ever them that are sanctified." God made salvation strictly a family affair where the family's father rescues only his children with no responsibility to do so for any others. A Savior does not buy a conditional opportunity that depends on volatile creature performance to become real; He buys an absolute, finished victory for His specific family.
 
The children of God could not of been from eternity past because then they would not have a beginning and only God has no beginning.

God's Spirit has always existed. We are made from said Spirit. Therefore, our Spirit has always existed in one form or another.

Start there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rogerg