Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[JimmieD]

Let's go back to the Holocaust. You seem to be saying there is no way to tell if those millions that were targeted as Jews were in fact Jews whereas most everyone except antisemites affirm they were Jews. You don't affirm that those marked as Jews by the Nazis were actually Jews?

Not to intervene too much in the argument here, but are you making an argument? The question seems to be how one could know/prove they were Jewish. What you are proposing only begs the question since SeaBass' next logical question should be, "well, how did the Nazis know they were Jewish?" I think his point is that such a thing is difficult if not impossible to prove with scientific certainty - there is no library or genealogy stretching back to the various sons of Jacob so that one could "prove" their ancestry.

Personally, I think people know whether or not they were Jewish because such a pedigree is passed down by word-of-mouth through families - not to mention DNA testing that confirms the relation among people that claim to be Jewish. In any case, appealing to Nazi methodology not only begs the question, but it's rather dubious to rely on their "research" to make one's case.

 

[SarahM777]

I do not see Jesus ruling the nations as KING at this time . . . but I did answer this previously:

Right now Jesus is "Lord", highly exalted by God (Phil. 2:8-11). He is the "head of the body" of Christ, the Church. In a sense, he is the "king" of our heart as we humble ourselves and allow him as "Lord" to lead and guide us.

So are you now saying Jesus is a quasi-king? He is King but not really King? Again do you not understand the nature of the Kingdom? Do you not understand that Jesus is ruling in the same manner as the God the Father did over Israel? Did the Father rule Israel from an earthly throne? Was the Father also a king that did NOT RULE from an earthly throne? Do you not understand they too rejected the Father's rule as King over them? Do you not understand that this is EXACTLY what this
stuff has done?

 

[psychomom]

please may i interrupt?

not to dispute the horror of the holocaust...
but Jews were not the only ones targeted.

my MIL was a first generation American, her folks having emigrated here from the
Hungarian/Romanian border.
she used to get a little upset when Americans talked about the holocaust
because she lost Christian family members to it.

just something to keep in mind...pray continue...

 

[SarahM777]

And if I do or if I don't - does that negate all the verses of prophecy in the OT?

Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Do you not think that the apostles had holy Spirit upon them at certain times in order for them to heal and to cast out devils? So to a degree they had holy Spirit [not to the extent of the new birth - born again of the Spirit] but what does that have to do with it? Why would they ask Jesus if he was going "to restore again the kingdom to Israel at this time" - if they did not believe he would through the prophecies of the OT?

I never it negates the OT prophecies,but it DOES question HOW the OT prophecies were fulfilled. Every thing they ALWAYS pointed to the OT prophecies being FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

Yes they did believe that Jesus would do so BEFORE Pentecost but yet not once AFTER Pentecost do they even mention it again or say they believe that Jesus WILL sit on an earthly throne.

 

[SarahM777]

please may i interrupt?

not to dispute the horror of the holocaust...
but Jews were not the only ones targeted.

my MIL was a first generation American, her folks having emigrated here from the
Hungarian/Romanian border.
she used to get a little upset when Americans talked about the holocaust
because she lost Christian family members to it.

just something to keep in mind...pray continue...

Yours was not the only family that had family members die in the camps either. (My mom did too.)

 

[crossnote]

Not to intervene too much in the argument here, but are you making an argument? The question seems to be how one could know/prove they were Jewish. What you are proposing only begs the question since SeaBass' next logical question should be, "well, how did the Nazis know they were Jewish?" I think his point is that such a thing is difficult if not impossible to prove with scientific certainty - there is no library or genealogy stretching back to the various sons of Jacob so that one could "prove" their ancestry.

Personally, I think people know whether or not they were Jewish because such a pedigree is passed down by word-of-mouth through families - not to mention DNA testing that confirms the relation among people that claim to be Jewish. In any case, appealing to Nazi methodology not only begs the question, but it's rather dubious to rely on their "research" to make one's case.

You may be right as to how the Jews come up with their lineage. I had already stated I did not know, but seabass kept pushing for an answer that I wasn't certain of. So I brought him back to my previous point regarding the Holocaust to try and squeeze out an answer from him of how he knew they weren't Jews. I know, my thinking is non linear at times.

 

[psalm6819]

I take God at His Word. He'll take of Israel, He'll take care of the Church, He'll take care of you and He'll take care of me. He has an infinite supply> What He has promised to each one of us He will keep. I believe Jesus will literally sit on a throne in Jerusalem, God promised that to David. It sometimes seems people are jealous of Jews....why??? There's plenty to go around, God doesn't have to take from one to give to another. I bless Israel, I pray for peace in Jerusalem, but we won't see it until the King is on the Throne.

 

[psalm6819]

The fulfillment of prophecy proves the authenticity of the Bible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fulfillment of prophecy proves the authenticity of the Bible.

so true.

Which is why s[iritualizing prophesy to make it come true, when it is not literal is not a good thing, it tends to disprove the authenticity, as people see us just making it say anything,, Like we do not trust it ourselves.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Which is why s[iritualizing prophesy to make it come true, when it is not literal is not a good thing, it tends to disprove the authenticity, as people see us just making it say anything,, Like we do not trust it ourselves.

And yet AGAIN! Wow.
I really don't see what is the point of this thread if everybody has their understandings set in concrete? It was only posted to make people argue and call names those who disagree with you.
You are NOT able to respect anybody's opinion and want yours to be held high.
I am making a study of Zechariah and what you posted in honesty and open mind and meant to go back here so we can discuss together but I'll keep it for myself. Have fun.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And yet AGAIN! Wow.
I really don't see what is the point of this thread if everybody has their understandings set in concrete? It was only posted to make people argue and call names those who disagree with you.
You are NOT able to respect anybody's opinion and want yours to be held high.
I am making a study of Zechariah and what you posted in honesty and open mind and meant to go back here so we can discuss together but I'll keep it for myself. Have fun.

so we are not allowed to state our opinion? I was not calling anyone a name, I was stating my opinion.

I guess we are only aloud to do this if we agree with something?

It has been my opinion, and I have stated it many times.

 

[SoulWeaver]

The opinion is no problem.
The problem is you do not allow the possibility that another might be correct.
You are right, everybody else is wrong. 100% sure.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I never it negates the OT prophecies,but it DOES question HOW the OT prophecies were fulfilled. Every thing they ALWAYS pointed to the OT prophecies being FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

Yes they did believe that Jesus would do so BEFORE Pentecost but yet not once AFTER Pentecost do they even mention it again or say they believe that Jesus WILL sit on an earthly throne.

How does it propose questions as to HOW the OT prophecies were fulfilled? The same way all other prophecies were fulfilled. Every OT prophecy POINTS to Christ. Some were fulfilled when he came the first time - the rest will be fulfilled in the future when he returns.

Even in the Eternal Kingdom Christ's rules from earth . . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. . . . And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Does this city just float in the air? Do we all just live there and float in the air?

 

[psychomom]

The opinion is no problem.
The problem is you do not allow the possibility that another might be correct.
You are right, everybody else is wrong. 100% sure.

sweetie, that's a pretty accurate description of each and every one of us.
(especially me)

you nailed it.

 

[JesusIsAll]

sweetie, that's a pretty accurate description of each and every one of us.
(especially me)

you nailed it.

Hey, Schizma! SoulWeaver is absolutely right about the problem. This is what happens when you get a whole group of people together who don't agree with me.

 

[psychomom]

Hey, Schizma! SoulWeaver is absolutely right about the problem. This is what happens when you get a whole group of people together who don't agree with me.

lol!

but noooo...ppl should agree with me.
otherwise...y'know, i'll go all psycho on ya!

(srsly..ask my poor kiddos )

 

[JesusIsAll]

lol!

but noooo...ppl should agree with me.
otherwise...y'know, i'll go all psycho on ya!

(srsly..ask my poor kiddos )

Yikes! That skipped my mind. Uh, yes, as I was saying, as long as the fundamentals are in place, that is, agreeing with you, esteemed Mother of a Thousand Bipolarities.

Ma, please, don't look at me that way. Okay. Abel knew systematic Christian theology from Adam. Here! Want a cookie?

 

[psychomom]

Yikes! That skipped my mind. Uh, yes, as I was saying, as long as the fundamentals are in place, that is, agreeing with you, esteemed Mother of a Thousand Bipolarities.

Ma, please, don't look at me that way. Okay. Abel knew systematic Christian theology from Adam. Here! Want a cookie?

yes, please!

(i see you've discovered my weakness)

 

[SarahM777]

How does it propose questions as to HOW the OT prophecies were fulfilled? The same way all other prophecies were fulfilled. Every OT prophecy POINTS to Christ. Some were fulfilled when he came the first time - the rest will be fulfilled in the future when he returns.

Even in the Eternal Kingdom Christ's rules from earth . . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. . . . And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Does this city just float in the air? Do we all just live there and float in the air?

And again WHERE in the NT does the apostles EVER point to an EARTHLY KINGDOM post Pentecost? Again Jesus very plainly said His Kingdom is NOT of this world. How then can it be an earthly Kingdom and yet He has NOT LIED? If He lied then He can NOT be the Messiah because then He SINNED. If He is not the Messiah then your sins are not forgiven.

Over and over again Jesus,the apostles and John the Baptist proclaimed the Kingdom of Heaven was AT HAND. Did Jesus LIE when He said this?

Mark 9

And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

If the Kingdom of God DID NOT come BEFORE all the apostles DIED then that makes Jesus a FALSE PROPHET.

Did Paul LIE when he wrote this?

Colossians 1

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, [SUP]11 [/SUP]being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, [SUP]12 [/SUP]and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you[SUP][f][/SUP] to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,[SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.


The writer of Hebrews writes this,did he lie?

Hebrews 12

[SUP]18 [/SUP]You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; [SUP]19 [/SUP]to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, [SUP]20 [/SUP]because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”[SUP][d][/SUP]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? [SUP]26 [/SUP]At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, [SUP]29 [/SUP]for our “God is a consuming fire"

 

[JesusIsAll]

Does this city just float in the air? Do we all just live there and float in the air?

It could. The earth is suspended in space. All things are possible to the Creator of all things. But in Revelation 21 there is a new heaven and a new earth, the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth.

Revelation 21:22-24 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

I've always speculated the new earth will be larger, the New Jerusalem 1,500 miles cubed. (Some are pushing a pyramid these days.)