government theorizes and conspires on how to infiltrate conspiracy theory chats

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Government might ban conspiracy theorizing.


Reminds me of a poem by Martin-Niemölle

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
Reminds me of a poem by Martin-Niemölle

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
But why did they come for you? What had you done that was so wrong? ;)

I have to say, after contemplation, that I am a terrible derailer. :| But I am not a shill!
 
My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings. If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

ya well....real letter or not, the truth is known.

Hasbara Handbook
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

there's another one as well...for the online work.
$2000 per month last i heard.

"After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? "

i can relate to this poor guy.
i used to work in advertising/media.
nothing on that level, but the idea is the same.

anyways....ya.
there are some Christian forums that aren't even owned and operated by Christians.
i was privy to an internal issue/debate on one (a whistleblower passed on the convo).
about what you would expect - anti-dispensationalism was the thorn they were debating.
there was shortly after a purge of all anti-dispensationalists.
threads deleted, not just closed.


i don't know what the guy is talking about re: ATS.
it's one of the non-christian owned fake sites.

k....interesting letter.
we have Sunstein on record saying the US govt ought to do it.
why not Israel?
 
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ya well....real letter or not, the truth is known.

Hasbara Handbook
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

there's another one as well...for the online work.
$2000 per month last i heard.

"After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? "

i can relate to this poor guy.
i used to work in advertising/media.
nothing on that level, but the idea is the same.

anyways....ya.
there are some Christian forums that aren't even owned and operated by Christians.
i was privy to an internal issue/debate on one (a whistleblower passed on the convo).
about what you would expect - anti-dispensationalism was the thorn they were debating.
there was shortly after a purge of all anti-dispensationalists.
threads deleted, not just closed.

i don't know what the guy is talking about re: ATS.
it's one of the non-christian owned fake sites.

k....interesting letter.
we have Sunstein on record saying the US govt ought to do it.
why not Israel?
I think this "confession" has been floating around for a while - as I first saw it on a different site to the one I posted. I read something about legal letters to site owners, and the original site it was posted to deleting it - as well as the usual "hoax proofs" and "debunkings" by the usual disinfo shills.

I liked what I've read in the pdf you posted (I haven't read much yet). This seems to be open enough about the tactics.

"Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion." Lol. At least there's some honesty between shills. :D
 
My theory by A. Elk [Miss]

[video=youtube;U6zWjUhfj-M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zWjUhfj-M[/video]

:cool:
 
Repression?

[video=youtube;dOOTKA0aGI0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0[/video]

1. the action of subduing someone or something by force.
 
I was in a health forum a few years ago, and there was a woman posing with RA who had about 10 different profiles. She confessed she was a professor at a University and an expert in internet trolls and shilling to one guy who courted her. She manipulated the group in all kinds of different ways, including having one of her profiles commit suicide to see the response on the depression group.She then wrote and published papers on the group. She was also an Israeli. Just to make it clear her background. I was so outraged I wrote her university and got no reply. Neither did the forum respond and it became pretty obvious she was there with permission of the forum, which was eventually bought out by Oprah and Dr. Oz.

That was when I decided to leave, although I had two thriving Christian groups. My RA friends and I took off and made our own secret group, which has thrived and given us excellent support.

But this whole thing about deliberate trolling and getting paid for it is a whole other level! Just shocking what people will do to manipulate people.

I guess it was inevitable that the PTB take action and try and control the only medium they did not have control of. They spend billions lobbying congress, why not a few bucks destroying Christian forums??
 
I was in a health forum a few years ago, and there was a woman posing with RA who had about 10 different profiles. She confessed she was a professor at a University and an expert in internet trolls and shilling to one guy who courted her. She manipulated the group in all kinds of different ways, including having one of her profiles commit suicide to see the response on the depression group.She then wrote and published papers on the group. She was also an Israeli. Just to make it clear her background. I was so outraged I wrote her university and got no reply. Neither did the forum respond and it became pretty obvious she was there with permission of the forum, which was eventually bought out by Oprah and Dr. Oz.

That was when I decided to leave, although I had two thriving Christian groups. My RA friends and I took off and made our own secret group, which has thrived and given us excellent support.

But this whole thing about deliberate trolling and getting paid for it is a whole other level! Just shocking what people will do to manipulate people.

I guess it was inevitable that the PTB take action and try and control the only medium they did not have control of. They spend billions lobbying congress, why not a few bucks destroying Christian forums??
wow,that is messed up,but not that it surprises me.I am sure that happens a whole lot more than we realize.
 
I was in a health forum a few years ago, and there was a woman posing with RA who had about 10 different profiles. She confessed she was a professor at a University and an expert in internet trolls and shilling to one guy who courted her. She manipulated the group in all kinds of different ways, including having one of her profiles commit suicide to see the response on the depression group.She then wrote and published papers on the group. She was also an Israeli. Just to make it clear her background. I was so outraged I wrote her university and got no reply. Neither did the forum respond and it became pretty obvious she was there with permission of the forum, which was eventually bought out by Oprah and Dr. Oz.

That was when I decided to leave, although I had two thriving Christian groups. My RA friends and I took off and made our own secret group, which has thrived and given us excellent support.

But this whole thing about deliberate trolling and getting paid for it is a whole other level! Just shocking what people will do to manipulate people.

I guess it was inevitable that the PTB take action and try and control the only medium they did not have control of. They spend billions lobbying congress, why not a few bucks destroying Christian forums??

Another finding, the university could have gained from that experiment, is that intelligence and morality do not go hand in hand.
 
We read some of the student's comments on her from a website for the students. Most noted her assignments "verged on the unethical."

I would say a totally unethical. The university should not have supported her! Really, I should have gone to the Board of Governors or to whomever the university was accountable to. Well, that shipped sailed a long time ago, so I need to let it go!
 
I was in a health forum a few years ago, and there was a woman posing with RA who had about 10 different profiles. She confessed she was a professor at a University and an expert in internet trolls and shilling to one guy who courted her. She manipulated the group in all kinds of different ways, including having one of her profiles commit suicide to see the response on the depression group.She then wrote and published papers on the group. She was also an Israeli. Just to make it clear her background. I was so outraged I wrote her university and got no reply. Neither did the forum respond and it became pretty obvious she was there with permission of the forum, which was eventually bought out by Oprah and Dr. Oz.

That was when I decided to leave, although I had two thriving Christian groups. My RA friends and I took off and made our own secret group, which has thrived and given us excellent support.

But this whole thing about deliberate trolling and getting paid for it is a whole other level! Just shocking what people will do to manipulate people.

I guess it was inevitable that the PTB take action and try and control the only medium they did not have control of. They spend billions lobbying congress, why not a few bucks destroying Christian forums??


whooooooaaaaaa.....:eek:
harsh!
 
After realising my naivity in thinking that I hadn't had dealings with a shill or two on this site, I've been doing some re-reading about shilling techniques. Someone who is genuinely naive will be persuaded by convincing evidence. A shill will never be convinced, because he or she has a financial (or other) incentive for distorting and concealing the truth. His role in not being convinced is two-fold - he will exhaust the energies of those explaining to him the truth (so these energies are not used on the naive who may be convinced), and he will also appear, to a casual observer of the conversation, to be a voice of reason for the alternative ("official") viewpoint. A more thorough observer will eventually see the dishonesty inherent in the shill, as truth means he cannot always be consistent.

Of course, I believe there are genuinely naive people who might not change their views about an entire topic (e.g. September 2001 terrorist attacks in New York requiring government complicity), but these will concede some truth (e.g. to set up a building for demolition takes weeks of preparation). A shill will only concede any such truths unfavourable to his position, if to reject them would place his employment as a shill in jeopardy of exposure. A shill understands that with the acceptance of every truth, his employment moves just that little bit closer to its ultimate termination.

I have also read that one's view on the explanation for the September 2001 terrorist attacks is a good litmus test for whether debaters on separate topics are shills. While I understand that there are some well-known media shills who do accept that there was some government complicity in these attacks (e.g. Alex Jones), I have not yet come across a run-of-the-mill-shill (rotms) on a website or chat room who will accept this position (perhaps shills are generally not given permission to do this).

The following is a list of shilling techniques described on the linked (non-Christian) website. Some techniques have been erased, as I deemed these outside the normal capabilities of the rotms found on discussion forums. I have bolded the techniques I have encountered.

https://aotearoaawiderperspective.w...nise-a-shill-25-hallmarks-of-shill-behaviour/

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the “How dare you!” gambit.

3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a “wild rumor” which can have no basis in fact.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks”, “right-wing”, “liberal”, “left-wing”, “terrorists”, “conspiracy buffs”, “radicals”, “militia”, “racists”, “religious fanatics”, “sexual deviates”, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning — simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent’s viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough “jargon” and “minutiae” to illustrate you are “one who knows”, and simply say it isn’t so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues — so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the “high road” and “confess” with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made — but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, “just isn’t so.” Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later. Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for “coming clean” and “owning up” to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards with an apparent deductive logic in a way that forbears any actual material fact.

14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best for items qualifying for rule 10.

15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

16. Vanishing evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won’t have to address the issue.
[That is, mysterious deaths of witnesses and disappearance or destruction of evidence is treated as unfortunate, not deliberate actions to conceal the truth, despite the number of related unfortunate coincidences there may be].

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can “argue” with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can’t do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how “sensitive they are to criticism”.

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the “play dumb” rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by proper intimidation with blackmail or other threats. [This can take several forms online, but the tactic that comes to mind is the goading of an of opponent until the point s/he retaliates, and then requesting to have the opponent banned for his/her reaction].

25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.
 
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I see 18 used way too much on this site. Number 7 is used a lot against those who are not Christian. I have seen plenty of number 20.
 
I see 18 used way too much on this site. Number 7 is used a lot against those who are not Christian. I have seen plenty of number 20.
Number 7 gets used a lot against Christians, also. :) "Antisemitism" is supposed to be one of the reasons people refuse to believe the official 9/11 lie. Even if these people have Jewish backgrounds. Lol. :D

Number 8 really annoys me. So we're supposed to listen to someone more because they've been indoctrinated in one of the finest of such centres in the country/world. Or because they have a white lab-coat. Lol.
 
I see 18 used way too much on this site. Number 7 is used a lot against those who are not Christian. I have seen plenty of number 20.
I never used those against Islam, drett. I always backed my facts up with tafseer. Just saying. lol
 
No worries L

Whether or not you have the correct understanding of a tafseer is another discussion. :)
LOL please tell me where I am wrong. I have always only read them, not adding anything.
 
I never used those against Islam, drett. I always backed my facts up with tafseer. Just saying. lol
Is this post an example of 17? :D

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can “argue” with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
 
Is this post an example of 17? :D

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can “argue” with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

Good old L. He likes talking about Islam more than I do lol
 
"Antisemitism" is supposed to be one of the reasons people refuse to believe the official 9/11 lie. Even if these people have Jewish backgrounds. Lol. :D

They will be labeled by their friends and family -> Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The concept fits into this thread nicely:
"As a rhetorical device it moves discussion away
:rolleyes: from a given topic as the accused is pressured to defend themselves against the insult, preventing a further exchange of views."