Grace believer, stop adding to the Gospel

Cameron143 · Dec 6, 2023

The answer to my question was yes. You finally get around to that in your final statement after initially saying no.
The truth is, apart from God both drawing and revealing, the natural man will die in his sins. He will have done so by his own choices, and made himself fit for destruction.

Obedience · Dec 6, 2023

Cameron143 said:

If believer do something else other than the word of God, unbeliever can make a wrong choice about Christ.

Unfortunately, the dogma constructed by believer has not been recognized by unbeliever.
Jesus was a stumbling block to these believers, and then became a stumbling block to unbelievers

Romans
9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Cameron143 · Dec 6, 2023

Everyone makes choices everyday...the redeemed and unredeemed alike. The choices they make are generally very different because they are guided by hearts that are very different. But everyone is making choices all the time. If you control the source of the choices, you control the choices.
In redeeming a person, God through a spiritual birth does this very thing. He changes the mind, heart, and will of an individual, and places them in relationship with Himself. Until God does this, the individual is motivated by a heart that is wicked and deceitful above all things, and lives to serve himself.
Either way, all mankind has been given freewill and makes choices.

Cameron143 · Dec 6, 2023

Kroogz said:

What kind of heart does a natural man have according to Jeremiah 17:9?

Cameron143 · Dec 6, 2023

Obedience said:

If believer do something else other than the word of God, unbeliever can make a wrong choice about Christ.

Unfortunately, the dogma constructed by believer has not been recognized by unbeliever.
Jesus was a stumbling block to these believers, and then became a stumbling block to unbelievers

Romans
9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

I have no idea what it is you are conveying. Can you clarify what you are wanting me to understand?

Kroogz · Dec 6, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Hopelessly wicked. To the point that no one would seek after God. And the heart, I believe is the right lobe of our brain, where we do our thinking. The actual heart is a vessel that pumps blood.

So there was a gap. Man, in his flesh would never seek after God. So God did something about that. He sent His son and bridged that gap. So now we are without excuse.

Cameron143 · Dec 6, 2023

Kroogz said:

Man was always without excuse before God because of creation and conscience...Romans 1. But as you say, the corruption of sin left him unable to seek after God. And while the payment for sin was accomplished at the cross, it must still be revealed to an individual during the coarse of their lifetime.

Kroogz · Dec 6, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I agree. And He reveals it to all mankind. No one is left out. All of mankind has a/many chances for their salvation. At anytime in their lives.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 6, 2023

Kroogz said:

Amen the gospel is preached to everyone we have a choice to ignore it or accept it just like this it is an invitation

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

( they were called many times but they always found reasons not to attend it isn’t the hosts fault it’s the invited guests choice to attend or rsvp)

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. ( go into all the world preach the gospel )

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭

the gospel is an invitation by God extended to mankind to live forever with him sometimes we hear about it and whatever we’re doing at the time is more important to us it’s sad but true

We find that in Luke’s account

“Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: and sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

So that servant came, and shewed his Lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

…And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭14:16-21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has done a lot to save us he’s made sure the invitation is all around us and has named the guest list

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

awe are the invited guests but he isn’t going to come strong arm us and force us to come he’s not going to make it impossible for us to attend he isn’t going to make it impossible fornus not to attend he’s inviting us and anyone that hears what he’s said and actually believes is going to come into the truth and be enabled to freely choose life

Obedience · Dec 6, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Believers with faith should strictly follow God's words when doing things or say something, If that's not the case, unbelievers will don't believe in God.

Men are all guilty because they do not listen to God's words or don't know about the word of God, not because men are Murderers, debauchers, thieves and so on.

This is my last explanation, I don't want to explain more clearly.

birdie · Dec 7, 2023

montana123 said:

Thanks montana123 for your discourse in which you make many good points. It looks like we differ slightly in how you view the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11. You write that God is sending 2 witnesses in the future. I view the 2 witnesses as a picture of the witnessing true believers give throughout the times of the church.

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. " The power God gives to the two witnesses must be the Holy Spirit. We learn in Acts: "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. " So, this sounds very much like the same thing to me. Revelation further clarifies who the 2 witnesses are: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth". This definitely sounds like the true believers as well, since we know that the believers are called olive trees and candle sticks in the New Testament. The Bible uses the term 2 in a symbolic parable way here, to show that witnessing is in view. Don't you see that just as true believers are not literal candle sticks, but are, instead, people. So, similarly, the number 2 is not restricted to a literal interpretation. Remember, Jesus sent out the disciples two by two to witness, for example.

But, someone might object, don't you see the awesome things that the two witnesses do? How can they be ordinary true believers? After all, fire comes out of their mouths to destroy their enemies:

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."

Fire in the Bible is a picture of judgment. Naturally, if true believers are sharing the gospel, anyone who rejects the gospel will not be saved. That is what is being spoken of in this verse. It is not as if literal fire were coming out of their mouths. Similarly, in the same book of Revelation, we read that a sword comes out of Jesus' mouth. But, here again, it is not as if a literal sword was coming out of his mouth. Rather, we know that the word of God comes out of his mouth, which the Bible tells us is the sword of the Spirit.

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Grace believer, stop adding to the Gospel

Cameron143

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Obedience

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Cameron143

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Cameron143

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Cameron143

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Kroogz

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Cameron143

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Kroogz

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Pilgrimshope

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Obedience

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birdie

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