GREASY GRACE?

[FlSnookman7]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Eph 1:7[/TD]
[TD]¶In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Wanted to post this 1st and separately, theres that grace again....

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Eph 1:2[/TD]
[TD]¶Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and fromthe Lord Jesus Christ.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 1:3[/TD]
[TD]¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 1:4[/TD]
[TD]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 1:5[/TD]
[TD]Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 1:6[/TD]
[TD]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Wow, sure mentions grace a lot again...

 

[FlSnookman7]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Eph 2:4[/TD]
[TD]¶But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 2:5[/TD]
[TD]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 2:6[/TD]
[TD]And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 2:7[/TD]
[TD]That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 2:8[/TD]
[TD]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Eph 2:9[/TD]
[TD]Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Lots of grace here as well, must be some sort of greasy grace conspiracy huh?

 

[FlSnookman7]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Col 2:13[/TD]
[TD]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Col 2:8[/TD]
[TD]¶Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:9[/TD]
[TD]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:10[/TD]
[TD]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:11[/TD]
[TD]¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:12[/TD]
[TD]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:13[/TD]
[TD]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:14[/TD]
[TD]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:15[/TD]
[TD]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:16[/TD]
[TD]¶Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:17[/TD]
[TD]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:18[/TD]
[TD]Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:19[/TD]
[TD]And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:20[/TD]
[TD]¶Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]

Col 2:21[/TD]
[TD](Touch not; taste not; handle not;[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Pay close attention to 12-14.



Well thats enough verses for this morning. Sadly those who lack faith in Jesus finished work probably wont even read them but again, that's ok.

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul says that we are to be strong in the grace that is in Christ. - not in our D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness.

2 Timothy 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

We are saved by grace as Eph. 2:8-9 says. We see the grace that is in Christ and by faith - we believe in what Christ has done.

Acts 15:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Here Paul is commending the elders of Ephesus to God and to the "word of His grace" which is able to build them up and give them the inheritance that is in Christ.

Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.


Here Paul says that we are declared righteous - justified "freely" by His grace.

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Paul says that preaching a works-based religion is "another gospel".

Galatians 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Peter says that we are to "fix our hope completely on the grace being brought to us at the revelation of Christ."

1 Peter 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Stephen63]

D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness ​is a false, fabricated idea that Christians live righteously by their own merits.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Faith without works is dead, being alone.

Fruit as a result of being born of the Spirit is NOT self-meritorious.

 

[Galatea]

Really good stuff 1 question ... What happens if someone Has this wonderful Knowledge, and continues to live against Gods word, and refuses to repent? Just curious if there is a point where we need to step into action and become accountable according to our actions now being redeemed ? are we free of punishment always ?

I think Grace 77X7 alluded to this in one of his posts when he said the most miserable people on Earth are not unsaved people, they are Christians out of the will of God. The refusal to repent and to grow makes a saved person's life powerless, they are unable to do anything for God. It makes the saved person lose communion with God, instead of being guided by His hand, you are now guided by His eye- not the close sweet relationship once shared. A Christian can be punished, and indeed is on this Earth. Let's say a Christian decides to continue drinking to the point of drunkenness, the person will suffer the effects of ill health, loss of job (perhaps), relationship problems. Sin does not go unpunished. A Christian out of the will of God can suffer loss of rewards in Heaven- his soul is saved, but as by fire. There will be many of us in Heaven smelling of brimstone. The ones who barely get there because we have done nothing but believed.


I Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Sometimes, some Christians can go so far down into sin, God will remove them from the world. The Corinthians were using the Lord's Supper as an occasion to sin (really some bad things going on). God simply took their lives, but not their salvation. I Corinthians 11, verse 30 talks about how there are people among them who God took, verse 32 tells us that these people were Christians "But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." God chastises His own, but does not condemn them.


God's grace is not cheap, it cost Him dear. If we don't value it, we suffer, but are not thrown away. It is the same thing with a Father with a disobedient child. If the child will not obey, is defiant, the father is forced to punish his child. He chastises him, but does not abandon him.

 

[Galatea]

I love J. Vernon McGee! I heard his voice as I read this

Thank you for sharing. Sadly, some will fail to understand.

I love him as well. I was introduced to his ministry when in college. I am looking forward to hearing him preach in person in Heaven. I've got a laundry list of preachers who I hope to be able to listen to in Heaven!

 

[followjesus]

Are we really doing this again? Oh well.

If we are under grace, sin shall have no dominion over us.

How, then, is grace a license to sin when it's the very thing that sets us free?

is the word grace what sets us free? or is keeping the word of Jesus Christ?

john 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Jesus made very clear what reveals the truth and sets free, this has not nd will never change. to abide in the teachings and principles of Christ is freedom from sin. the things missing from the many different grace teaching that omits the words of Jesus is much opf what paul also wrote and made plain

romans 6:15-16 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

every man is either a servant of sin making them a slave to sin, or they are a servant of obedience to Jesus, making them righteous. to say " Jesus imparted righteousness" is true, but the righteousness He imparted was His teachings. those have to be accepted in order to Know righteousness. and the gift of righteousness, we follow unto salvation.

romans 5:17 "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Grace is awesome, but it is very mistaught and misunderstood. Grace is learned through Jesus and His ministry, and does not nullify the commandments of God given through Jesus Christ. those commands and teachings are the gift of Righteousness for those who accept and then obey them. its not that God cant see our sin now as many false teachers say, it is that we are commanded to repent of sin, and given power to do so through the spirit of truth, by the word of God. and the spirit of truth will ALWAYS remind the believe of Jesus words. Grace does not save unless we take it how God offered, conditioned upon faith in Jesus Christ. apoart from Him grace has no effect.

or to just take the word "Grace" and then define it by a dictionary and say " unwarranted favor" and THEN teach people this nullifies the rest of scripture, or the commandments of God is fallacy, false security before the coming wrath.

 

[followjesus]

They get stuck in them because no one is giving them a gospel that will set them free!

Grace properly taught empowers holiness. I help people regularly break free of sin. Not by my power or strength, but by His! And once people understand what actually happened on the cross 2000 years and what they now in Christ have ACCESS to, they don't want sin to meet their needs, they want God to. And that's true repentance.

Repentance is more about what we turn TOWARD and less about what we turn away from.

Jesus said, REPENT for the Kingdom of God is in FRONT of you.

is this true cee

john 8:31-33 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye cvontinue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and THE TRUTH shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

and is this true

romans 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

Then at this point, what frees us from sin? and what is the evidence we are free from sins dominion? also what Happens if a believer continues living in sin?

ephesians 5:1-7 "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


this is my issue, these lessona are repeatedly taught in the word, they have always and will always be a part of Gods Plan. why is it an offense to Gods Grace to speak the true warnings that are throughout the new testament against disobeying Jesus? and if Grace somehow nullifies all the clear warnings and true descriptions of Judgement upon the entire world to come where is the doctrine that teaches that?

if Jesus doctrine is considered "works based salvation" then im definately a believer in that. i see it though as the Grace of God teaching through mercy and wisdom. " neither do i condemn you, Now go and sin no more"

I have Loved you, now remain in my Love, if you keep my commands you will remain in my Love" ": if anyone Loves me, he will obey my teaching...if anyone does not love me, he will not obey my teaching"

" Jesus will judge every person according to thier deeds, this should noit be a debate because it is the only Judgement taught by the word. Jesus spoke it, then peter, paul and all the rest taught it. Our deeds, and also our words. so indeed Our works after accepting Jesus death, matter immensely toward what we hear from His mouth on that day. lest we make Jesus a liar who told us beforehand about His return. confirmed by Paul and the apostles all. id say people who trust in Grace and resist thier own part which is to obey the commands of the Lord.

Without fruit the tree is cut down and burned, Gravce either leads to obedience to Jesus or it doesnt. if it does then obedience is a part of salvaton, if it doesnt then its not Gods grace.

 

[zone]

Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.

 

[Grandpa]

Are we really doing this again? Oh well.

If we are under grace, sin shall have no dominion over us.

How, then, is grace a license to sin when it's the very thing that sets us free?

Its people who don't understand Grace that have the biggest problem with it.

I'm sure you would never hear a Christian, who is solely relying on Christ, EVER call His Grace 'greasy'.

 

[Stephen63]

Its people who don't understand Grace that have the biggest problem with it.

I'm sure you would never hear a Christian, who is solely relying on Christ, EVER call His Grace 'greasy'.

Oh, I understand the real grace, you know, the one BEFORE 1997?

But that Joseph Prince grace, that's no grace at all. That stuff's cult teachings.

 

[followjesus]

I think Grace 77X7 alluded to this in one of his posts when he said the most miserable people on Earth are not unsaved people, they are Christians out of the will of God. The refusal to repent and to grow makes a saved person's life powerless, they are unable to do anything for God. It makes the saved person lose communion with God, instead of being guided by His hand, you are now guided by His eye- not the close sweet relationship once shared. A Christian can be punished, and indeed is on this Earth. Let's say a Christian decides to continue drinking to the point of drunkenness, the person will suffer the effects of ill health, loss of job (perhaps), relationship problems. Sin does not go unpunished. A Christian out of the will of God can suffer loss of rewards in Heaven- his soul is saved, but as by fire. There will be many of us in Heaven smelling of brimstone. The ones who barely get there because we have done nothing but believed.


I Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Sometimes, some Christians can go so far down into sin, God will remove them from the world. The Corinthians were using the Lord's Supper as an occasion to sin (really some bad things going on). God simply took their lives, but not their salvation. I Corinthians 11, verse 30 talks about how there are people among them who God took, verse 32 tells us that these people were Christians "But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." God chastises His own, but does not condemn them.


God's grace is not cheap, it cost Him dear. If we don't value it, we suffer, but are not thrown away. It is the same thing with a Father with a disobedient child. If the child will not obey, is defiant, the father is forced to punish his child. He chastises him, but does not abandon him.

What if the child abandons the Father though is more my question? and bruce eludes to alot of ides that arent in the word. How does this translate to losing earthly rewards and still inheriting eternal Life

ephesians 5:3-7 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them"

or even more clear

galatians 6:7-9 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

or yet the clearest

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE: 8But unto them that are contentious, and DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, BUT OBEY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, indignation and WRATH, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that DOETH EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the GENTILE; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that WORKETH GOOD, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."


do we simply omit all of the many very clear things like this and then explain why it really doesnt mean what it says? im open to someone sharing the scriptures that actually say that our actions dont apply to eternal Life. but like the scripture you used there is dealing with doctrine.

1 coringthians 3:11-15 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

this is not a teaching about Judgement day, but paul explaining that Jesus is the only true foundation which i agree with 100 percent. that Jesus including every word he taught is the foundation of Christianity. the thing is with that though is that Jesus taught miuch concerning His return and much about Hearing Him and not obeying. at what point dpoes Grace change all the other words of instruction and warning? this is my whole issue with lifting Grace above Jesus. where do we Learn from scripture, things Like bruce explains constantly? ive asked several times for scripture saying things Like " sin will only be punished on earth you are saved in Gods Kingdom no matter what?"

that is kinda what you are saying isnt it? sin cant lose your salvayion for you, just earthly consequences to your sin?

what about a greedy person? how are they punished for idolatry on earth? a greedy person who gives nothing to the needs of others, How will they be punished on earth? truly the ot says little very little about after death, Jesus came with those things and it really is clearly taught through He and His apostles, the principle of eternal Judgement.

 

[Grandpa]

is the word grace what sets us free? or is keeping the word of Jesus Christ?

john 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Jesus made very clear what reveals the truth and sets free, this has not nd will never change. to abide in the teachings and principles of Christ is freedom from sin. the things missing from the many different grace teaching that omits the words of Jesus is much opf what paul also wrote and made plain

romans 6:15-16 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

every man is either a servant of sin making them a slave to sin, or they are a servant of obedience to Jesus, making them righteous. to say " Jesus imparted righteousness" is true, but the righteousness He imparted was His teachings. those have to be accepted in order to Know righteousness. and the gift of righteousness, we follow unto salvation.

romans 5:17 "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Grace is awesome, but it is very mistaught and misunderstood. Grace is learned through Jesus and His ministry, and does not nullify the commandments of God given through Jesus Christ. those commands and teachings are the gift of Righteousness for those who accept and then obey them. its not that God cant see our sin now as many false teachers say, it is that we are commanded to repent of sin, and given power to do so through the spirit of truth, by the word of God. and the spirit of truth will ALWAYS remind the believe of Jesus words. Grace does not save unless we take it how God offered, conditioned upon faith in Jesus Christ. apoart from Him grace has no effect.

or to just take the word "Grace" and then define it by a dictionary and say " unwarranted favor" and THEN teach people this nullifies the rest of scripture, or the commandments of God is fallacy, false security before the coming wrath.

You're trying to turn 'not of works lest any boast' into works that must be performed in order to earn righteousness.

Your own theology is at odds with its own self.

Turning away from your own work and turning to the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to receive the Righteousness that is offered. By Grace through Faith.

Do you think that by turning away from your own work and trusting solely in Christ that He will somehow forget something and you will not be as righteous as you would have been had you 'helped' Him out?

 

[Grandpa]

Oh, I understand the real grace, you know, the one BEFORE 1997?

But that Joseph Prince grace, that's no grace at all. That stuff's cult teachings.

Right....

But if that were actually true you would probably understand Joseph Prince as well.

Its not that strange that people who don't like Grace don't like Joseph Prince.

Any other non-surprising news flashes you'd like to report?

 

[Stephen63]

Right....

But if that were actually true you would probably understand Joseph Prince as well.

Its not that strange that people who don't like Grace don't like Joseph Prince.

Any other non-surprising news flashes you'd like to report?

Yeeaaah..... I understand JP..... he wants to take as many people as he can into the Tribulation with him & then to Hell.

I love the real grace before 1997..... but you have a problem reading that.

Here's another non-surprising news flash..... those who mock & fight on here are greasy-gracers themselves. I didn't want to shock you, being a grandpa & all.....

 

[Grandpa]

Yeeaaah..... I understand JP..... he wants to take as many people as he can into the Tribulation with him & then to Hell.

I love the real grace before 1997..... but you have a problem reading that.

Here's another non-surprising news flash..... those who mock & fight on here are greasy-gracers themselves. I didn't want to shock you, being a grandpa & all.....

Of course.

Maybe I was wrong. I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe those who fight so hard against Grace really do understand it. And hate it anyway.

I don't understand that at all.

 

[followjesus]

D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness ​is a false, fabricated idea that Christians live righteously by their own merits.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Faith without works is dead, being alone.

Fruit as a result of being born of the Spirit is NOT self-meritorious.

those born of the spirit have a zeal for the works of God. we are saved from the coming wrath already declared not by God in the old covenant, but the wrath spoken By God through Jesus in the eternal covenant. Just Like the first covenant had a law giver, and then prophets who went forth and spoke of and from that Law, Jesus came as the new mediator, and sent prophets forth to teach from and of His Word.

The issue with the misteachings of Grace, is to think Jesus is not the mediator of the covenant. if we claim the new covenant, the name of Jesus Christ we cannot then omit His words because He himself mediated the new covenant. the denial of Jesus teachings is not Grace. the " special understanding" required in order to omit Jesus words is the same spirit of satan that omitted Gods word in the garden

when you eat the fruit you will surely die"

you will not surely die"

Jesus the word " abide in my word and you will Live with me forever"

false doctrine" surely abiding in the word of Jesus is not applicable to eternal Life"

thats for the others, not me. its a terribly destructive doctrine, but not cleverly put forth at all.

 

[John146]

those born of the spirit have a zeal for the works of God. we are saved from the coming wrath already declared not by God in the old covenant, but the wrath spoken By God through Jesus in the eternal covenant. Just Like the first covenant had a law giver, and then prophets who went forth and spoke of and from that Law, Jesus came as the new mediator, and sent prophets forth to teach from and of His Word.

The issue with the misteachings of Grace, is to think Jesus is not the mediator of the covenant. if we claim the new covenant, the name of Jesus Christ we cannot then omit His words because He himself mediated the new covenant. the denial of Jesus teachings is not Grace. the " special understanding" required in order to omit Jesus words is the same spirit of satan that omitted Gods word in the garden

when you eat the fruit you will surely die"

you will not surely die"

Jesus the word " abide in my word and you will Live with me forever"

false doctrine" surely abiding in the word of Jesus is not applicable to eternal Life"

thats for the others, not me. its a terribly destructive doctrine, but not cleverly put forth at all.

Curious, which parts of the Bible are not of the Lord? Are you talking about only the parts when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us?

 

[CoooCaw]

the English word 'GRACE'
is a lot like the English word 'LOVE'

inadequately defined

Matthew 6:7
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much TYPING"