hi gotime.
ok...
this is where i'm having trouble.
are the dead who rejected God raised to stand before the Judge, or are they judged in absentia?
cuz they appear to have been judged in absentia, and it seems to have taken 1,000 years.
again, who is there for him to tempt since the unrighteous dead were already judged (by the saints in heaven during the 1,000 years) and sentenced upon the return...
what people are there?
disagree. but ok.
such as?
what things, and why not?
well i agree that's supposed to be how it works kinda, but using Rev 20 to reverse-engineer the OT just leads to the same error the jews fell into.
where is Jesus in all that?
like........we have NT prophecies showing which OT prophecies apply to "end-times": but end-times started when Jesus came the First Time.
yes, it helps. thank you
blessings to you as well.
zone.
Hey Zone let my try and explain.
You asked are the dead who rejected God raised to stand before the Judge, or are they judged in absentia?
No They will be present when judgment is meted out.
Just the same as the judgment before Jesus comes. Let me try and explain.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Notice that when Jesus returns that he is already ready to reward the saints. This is seen in the 7th Trumpet also.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Notice here that the time has come for three things. The wrath of God the judgment of the dead and the rewarding of the saints.
so while the saints are being rewarded after wrath the dead will be judged.
Who are these dead that will be judged?
Notice what the old testament teaches of Jesus coming.
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And see what happens to the earth.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
In all these verses as in many others we are taught that at the coming of Christ the wicked are destroyed and the earth is left in desolation. The very description given of the earth is chaotic like before creation and thus a vast abyss in which Satan is bound for 1000 years. With no one to temp because all his people for the time being are dead. And they are being judged.
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
So the wrath of God has come and destroyed the wicked and now they are to be judged and the saints rewarded.
Remember that in all judgments there is first a examination and then the proceeding and declaration of the judgment.
Just as the saints are rewarded because they have been judged for salvation so must the dead wicked be judged.
I would like to take note here that this judgment is for our benefit not Gods. It is clear at this point that God has already decided or ells how he could have saved us and not the others. Unless he already knows who is saved and who is not.
The 1000 years is a punishment for Satan. While a judgment will be for our benefit that is not the only thing Gods saints will do.
Once the 1000 years are over then the wicked are raised to stand before the throne of God and made to understand why they are not saved. Then they will acknowledge that God is just and then they will be judged by fire.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Notice the language here fits the description of Jesus returning after the 1000 years. Notice also it says that the saints are coming with Him. why? Because they were in heaven with Him. Rev 21 in to 22.
Same description of when the city returns after the 1000 years.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Notice here that there is a judgment of who. The dead who are raised. When are they raised?]
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Where are the saints at this time?
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They are with Jesus in heaven how do we know this?
Because of the previous prophecies that show that the earth is desolate and left like that for 1000 years for Satan to see where his rebellion leads. For the first time in history Satan will have no one to tempt and only have time to think on what he has done and the judgment to come at the end of the 1000 years.
Hope this helps a little. I know I have not answered all questions or even answered this one in full. But time is not my friend today. Blessings.
