Harvesting of the Earth

[Revelation1v8]

The Westernized religion of Gentiles teaches them that THEY are the bride to be joined with Christ in Heaven as the body of Christ, always at the exclusion of what scripture says. They never do explain how the BODY of Christ can also be the BRIDE of Christ, considering that the bride came down from Heaven onto the new earth.

The emotional high Gentiles get by thinking they have replaced Israel, well, that maintains this element, among many, that's nothing more than just another gear in the replacement theology cult.

MM

We are joined together to become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[Musicmaster]

We are joined together to become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

That's an interesting take on it given that the body of Christ will dwell in Heaven while Israel and the Kingdom will reside upon the new earth. Consider the name that's upon that bride, that city...New Jerusalem, which points to Israel, not Gentiles. I've seen far too often others pointing at all our being in Christ allegedly erasing these distinctive identities in eternity in relation to distinctions clearly pointed out within the context of everlasting life, that's a terrible hermeneutic and a practice in ripping key verses out from their contexts while ignoring the clarity of distinctions that will still exist in eternity.

MM

 

[Revelation1v8]

That's an interesting take on it given that the body of Christ will dwell in Heaven while Israel and the Kingdom will reside upon the new earth. Consider the name that's upon that bride, that city...New Jerusalem, which points to Israel, not Gentiles. I've seen far too often others pointing at all our being in Christ allegedly erasing these distinctive identities in eternity in relation to distinctions clearly pointed out within the context of everlasting life, that's a terrible hermeneutic and a practice in ripping key verses out from their contexts while ignoring the clarity of distinctions that will still exist in eternity.

MM

I understand what you mean about people trying to erase distinctive identities, but the Bible as a whole shows how believers will ALL become one in Christ. Jesus doesn't pour out His Spirit on the House of David until His return (Zechariah 12:10) and after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11:25).

How do you see the new earth in relation to the New Jerusalem/Heaven? While I absolutely believe the God/Jesus will restore Jerusalem for His Millennial Kingdom reign, Revelation 21 & 22 shows you that once that reign is over, that the New Jerusalem/Heaven comes down to replace the earth or at least combine heaven and earth. Do you think that God fulfills His promises to His covenant people on the new earth while Gentile believers reside in the New Jerusalem/Heaven until that 1,000 year period is fulfilled before they join together? Because Revelation 21 & 22 shows them joining together. Personally, I always thought the "restoration" was on the current earth because Isaiah 65 shows people living hundreds of years old, continuing to repopulate the earth, and still dying. I couldn't see that happening on the "new earth", but I could be wrong. A restored Jerusalem might be the new earth.

 

[Musicmaster]

How do you see the new earth in relation to the New Jerusalem/Heaven?

We today as the body of Christ will dwell in "heavenly places" as is stated in scripture. The new Jerusalem will be populated by the ancient and remnant Jews surrounded by the remaining Gentile nations who passed through the tribulation surviving into the Millennial Kingdom up to the end of all things.

While I absolutely believe the God/Jesus will restore Jerusalem for His Millennial Kingdom reign, Revelation 21 & 22 shows you that once that reign is over, that the New Jerusalem/Heaven comes down to replace the earth or at least combine heaven and earth.

Not necessarily. I don't see Heaven being brought down to the new earth in the contexts of those two chapters. We of the body of Christ who are saved by grace through faith apart from the Law and works, we will not dwell on the new earth as our dwelling place.

Do you think that God fulfills His promises to His covenant people on the new earth while Gentile believers reside in the New Jerusalem/Heaven until that 1,000 year period is fulfilled before they join together?

No. The "new Jerusalem" doesn't descend from Heaven until after the creation of the new heaven and new earth.

Because Revelation 21 & 22 shows them joining together.

Would you mind quoting that for us?

Personally, I always thought the "restoration" was on the current earth because Isaiah 65 shows people living hundreds of years old, continuing to repopulate the earth, and still dying. I couldn't see that happening on the "new earth", but I could be wrong. A restored Jerusalem might be the new earth.

Yes, the new Jerusalem will be only on the new earth after having come down, an actual city with dimensioned description.

Blessings.

MM

 

[ScooterJackson]

That's an interesting take on it given that the body of Christ will dwell in Heaven while Israel and the Kingdom will reside upon the new earth.

No, Christians will reign with Jesus here on the earth during His 1000 year reign.

The new Heaven and Earth comes after the 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth.

 

[Revelation1v8]

We today as the body of Christ will dwell in "heavenly places" as is stated in scripture. The new Jerusalem will be populated by the ancient and remnant Jews surrounded by the remaining Gentile nations who passed through the tribulation surviving into the Millennial Kingdom up to the end of all things.

When you say "new Jerusalem" here, do you see it as a restored kingdom on the current earth, or are you looking at it as the new earth being kept separate from the new heaven after the old heaven and earth have passed away?


Not necessarily. I don't see Heaven being brought down to the new earth in the contexts of those two chapters. We of the body of Christ who are saved by grace through faith apart from the Law and works, we will not dwell on the new earth as our dwelling place.

So, you look at Heaven as a place totally separate from the New Jerusalem? You consider the New Jerusalem the new earth instead of Heaven?

No. The "new Jerusalem" doesn't descend from Heaven until after the creation of the new heaven and new earth.

How does that answer fit in with your prior statements? I guess once you answer what your definition of the "New Jerusalem" actually is, it might answer it for us.

Would you mind quoting that for us?

When I read Revelation 21, I see verses 2 and 10 basically showing two separate things going on.

Revelation 21:2 - And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 - 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

So, there's a reason it's repeating itself.

Here's what A.I. tells me about the Wife vs the Bride:

• Israel = "wife" (Hebrew 'ishshah) — a covenantal, national relationship with YHWH as husband, often marked by infidelity (idolatry), divorce, and restoration. The language is more "marriage that has gone wrong and must be renewed."
• Church = "bride" (Greek nymphe) — a relationship with Christ as bridegroom, emphasizing purity, preparation, and a future consummation (the Marriage Supper of the Lamb). The language is more "bride being prepared for the wedding that has not yet occurred."

So, when you put the two together, you see GOD preparing His original people for the wedding and then you see the LAMB also getting Christians ready for marriage until the TWO BECOME ONE, like the Bible describes husbands and wives.

Yes, the new Jerusalem will be only on the new earth after having come down, an actual city with dimensioned description.

So, you continue to see them as separate.

Blessings.

MM

Now you've really confused me, so I'll address each one of your statements with another question in red lettering underneath each one.

 

[GaryA]

Show me where Christians will be floating in the sky with the Lord just hovering for months.

Not months - I believe it to be an hours-to-days time frame.

 

[GaryA]

Show me where Christians will be floating in the sky with the Lord just hovering for months.

You should find your answer in the Order of Events chart on the web page I gave a link to in a previous post.

Is that the U Turn crowd that goes up to meet Jesus in the air and then immediately return to earth and skips the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven?

In the post quoted above, you made the declaration/supposition that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will take place in [the 3rd] Heaven - why do you believe it? Why does anyone believe it? I do not see it in scripture anywhere. What I do see is in Revelation 19.

 

[Musicmaster]

Revelation 21:2 - And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 - 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

So, there's a reason it's repeating itself.

Here's what A.I. tells me about the Wife vs the Bride:

• Israel = "wife" (Hebrew 'ishshah) — a covenantal, national relationship with YHWH as husband, often marked by infidelity (idolatry), divorce, and restoration. The language is more "marriage that has gone wrong and must be renewed."
• Church = "bride" (Greek nymphe) — a relationship with Christ as bridegroom, emphasizing purity, preparation, and a future consummation (the Marriage Supper of the Lamb). The language is more "bride being prepared for the wedding that has not yet occurred."

So, when you put the two together, you see GOD preparing His original people for the wedding and then you see the LAMB also getting Christians ready for marriage until the TWO BECOME ONE, like the Bible describes husbands and wives.


So, you continue to see them as separate.



Now you've really confused me, so I'll address each one of your statements with another question in red lettering underneath each one.

There's no end to how stupid AI can be.

MM

 

[ScooterJackson]

Not months - I believe it to be an hours-to-days time frame.

But you have no scripture for Christians floating around in the air, much less for how long.

Thank you for sharing your speculations.

 

[Revelation1v8]

There's no end to how stupid AI can be.

MM

So, in other words, you have no idea how to answer my questions?

 

[GaryA]

But you have no scripture for Christians floating around in the air, much less for how long. { Of course, I do - in the chart - go look at it. }

But you have no scripture for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb taking place in [the 3rd] Heaven.

 

[ScooterJackson]

But you have no scripture for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb taking place in [the 3rd] Heaven.

Nice deflection. A tactic used when someone cannot back up their claims.

In his vision in Revelation 19:7–10, John saw and heard the heavenly multitudes praising God because the wedding feast of the Lamb

What John’s vision in Revelation pictures is the wedding feast of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and His bride (the Church) in its third phase. The implication is that the first two phases have already taken place. The first phase was completed on earth when each individual believer placed his or her faith in Christ as Savior. The dowry paid by the bridegroom’s parent (God the Father) would be the blood of Christ shed on the Bride’s behalf.

The Church on earth today, then, is “betrothed” to Christ, and, like the wise virgins in the parable, all believers should be watching and waiting for the appearance of the Bridegroom (the rapture). The second phase symbolizes the rapture of the Church, when Christ comes to claim His bride and take her to the Father’s house. The marriage supper then follows as the third and final step. It is our view that the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven between the rapture and the second coming (during the tribulation on earth).

Attending the wedding feast will be not only the Church as the Bride of Christ, but others as well. The “others” include the Old Testament saints—they will not have been resurrected yet, but their souls/spirits will be in heaven with us. As the angel told John to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9). The marriage supper of the Lamb is a glorious celebration of all who are in Christ!

 

[Musicmaster]

Nice deflection. A tactic used when someone cannot back up their claims.

In his vision in Revelation 19:7–10, John saw and heard the heavenly multitudes praising God because the wedding feast of the Lamb

What John’s vision in Revelation pictures is the wedding feast of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and His bride (the Church) in its third phase. The implication is that the first two phases have already taken place. The first phase was completed on earth when each individual believer placed his or her faith in Christ as Savior. The dowry paid by the bridegroom’s parent (God the Father) would be the blood of Christ shed on the Bride’s behalf.

The Church on earth today, then, is “betrothed” to Christ, and, like the wise virgins in the parable, all believers should be watching and waiting for the appearance of the Bridegroom (the rapture). The second phase symbolizes the rapture of the Church, when Christ comes to claim His bride and take her to the Father’s house. The marriage supper then follows as the third and final step. It is our view that the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven between the rapture and the second coming (during the tribulation on earth).

Attending the wedding feast will be not only the Church as the Bride of Christ, but others as well. The “others” include the Old Testament saints—they will not have been resurrected yet, but their souls/spirits will be in heaven with us. As the angel told John to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9). The marriage supper of the Lamb is a glorious celebration of all who are in Christ!

No. Wrong, but it doesn't matter. Replacement theology has always pictured Gentiles as replacing Israel and becoming the polygamous wife of Christ.

MM

 

[ScooterJackson]

Replacement theology has always pictured Gentiles as replacing Israel

Which is false doctrine

 

[Musicmaster]

Which is false doctrine

Gentiles are not a part of the bride. The Lord was married to Israel, divorced and will be once again rejoined with Him, the Lord joining once again with Israel. He is not polygamous by joining with "the nations" in conjunction with Israel.

MM

 

[ScooterJackson]

Gentiles are not a part of the bride.

Wow so you on your way to hell then since you claim to not be in Christ?

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

 

[Churchgoer]

Gentiles are not a part of the bride. The Lord was married to Israel, divorced and will be once again rejoined with Him, the Lord joining once again with Israel. He is not polygamous by joining with "the nations" in conjunction with Israel.

MM

Once a woman who commit adultery and is divorced, whoever marries her will commit adultery. She is not free to marry anyone.

Deuteronomy 24
Luke 16

Basically the innocent party are allowed to remarry if previous spouse dies. But the adulteror is not allowed to remarry.

Spiritually if adulteror is born again a new creature, then a new person can marry.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Gentiles were never married to the Lord in the first place so we are free to get born again and inter in to that blessed marriage relationship with the Lord.

 

[Musicmaster]

Once a woman who commit adultery and is divorced, whoever marries her will commit adultery. She is not free to marry anyone.

Deuteronomy 24
Luke 16

Basically the innocent party are allowed to remarry if previous spouse dies. But the adulteror is not allowed to remarry.

Spiritually if adulteror is born again a new creature, then a new person can marry.

You're not properly representing scripture concerning His marriage to us of Israel. Please go back and read what He said that He will do in the future from His divorcement.

The clearest passage is Jeremiah 3:

“I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce.”
— Jeremiah 3:8, NKJV

Here, God compares Israel’s idolatry and covenant unfaithfulness to marital adultery and says that He had “put her away” and given her a “certificate of divorce.”

Yet God immediately calls her to return:

“Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say:
‘Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD;
‘I will not cause My anger to fall on you.
For I am merciful,’ says the LORD;
‘I will not remain angry forever.’”
— Jeremiah 3:12

“Return, you backsliding children,
and I will heal your backslidings.”
— Jeremiah 3:22

God then promises to restore and gather Israel:

“Return, backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.”
— Jeremiah 3:14, NKJV

A parallel passage is Hosea 2, where Israel is portrayed as an unfaithful wife, but God promises to restore the relationship:

“Therefore, behold, I will allure her, will bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfort to her.”
— Hosea 2:14

“I will give her her vineyards from there, and the Valley of Achor as a door of hope… She shall sing there, as in the days of her youth.”
— Hosea 2:15

“I will betroth you to Me forever;
Yes, I will betroth you to Me
In righteousness and justice,
In lovingkindness and mercy;
I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,
And you shall know the LORD.”
— Hosea 2:19–20, NKJV

So the biblical sequence is:

1. Israel commits spiritual adultery through idolatry — Jeremiah 3:6–7.
2. God gives Israel a figurative certificate of divorce — Jeremiah 3:8.
3. God still calls Israel to return — Jeremiah 3:12, 22.
4. God promises to receive and restore her — Jeremiah 3:14; Hosea 2:19–20.

Isaiah 54:5–8 also uses the same imagery, calling the Lord Israel’s Husband and promising that He will gather her again with everlasting mercy.

MM