E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. He posted ONE of Gods defenition of sin, there ar emany others. But that is not the point.
2. Do you know what sin is?
Has all already been fulfilled by Messiah?
- Thread starter Hizikyah
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1. He posted ONE of Gods defenition of sin, there ar emany others. But that is not the point.
2. Do you know what sin is?
The pharisees kept the law but neglected the weightier matters, as such:
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
*
'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines of God the commandments of men"
I dont think they actually kept or guarded it, but rathe found ficticious "loop holes" to appear as if they were but were not.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."[/FONT]
"[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition.[/FONT]"
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:23, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the others.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." [/FONT]
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So a non believer can only murder people because he can not keep the law? A non believer must lie because they can not keep the law?
A non believer can only dishonor their parents because they can not keep the law?
I am not talking in circles. What I said stands, A non believer can live the LETTER (the jews proved that, and scripture confirmed it plainly when it said the gentile who did not have the law. Can keep it)
So I did not contradict self when I said we can keep the law (by the letter) 100 % and still sin. Because the law does not adequately tell us what every sin is, It just gives us a basic understanding, wh9ch even the heathen can keep.
of course no one can keep the law 100% because no one can keep the 1st command 24/7, and if they say they can, they are decieved, and do not understand what Love us.
So, You think the HS can help you keep te necessary requirements of the law? So why do you need christ? Why do you even claim you follow him, if you can keep the law 100 % you do not need christ.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
He posted ONE of gods defenitions,. There ar emany other/
Do you know what sin is? (This is a yes or no answer)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So if you know these things are sin, what good is the law to you? Do you have to be taught what you already know?
That is like saying if you know Jesus why read the gospels...
It is study, reproof, meditation and testing to see if the spirit is of YHWH or not. Many people say they are led by Messiah yet go agains\nst everythign He says, where is they read words the Spirit of YHWH may cut their hewart and restore them to truth. Why read the word at all?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:1-2, “What then is the advantage of the Yehuḏi, or what is the value of the circumcision? Much in every way! Because firstly indeed, that they were entrusted with the Words of Yah.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:9, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:11, “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."[/FONT]
Yes, you are right, I should have said they taught it but did not keep it, for Jesus said to do what they say but not as they do. Matthew 23 is all about that
Matthew 23 (NIV)
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.
11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
[14] (There is an error on this page's translation, for verse 14 is missing
Here it is from the KJV: ) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’
19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Yes, you are right, I should have said they taught it but did not keep it, for Jesus said to do what they say but not as they do. Matthew 23 is all about that
Matthew 23 (NIV)
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.
11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
[14] (There is an error on this page's translation, for verse 14 is missing
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’
19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
I think it is common misunderstanding that the pharisees kept YHWH's Law and somehow this was their problem, when indeed the ymade their own law:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version - Mat 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
....Ever notice how those who throw the largest stones are the one's who are trying to hang their own sin upon you?...and anyone else, who perchances in engaging them? Oh! And how "righteous" they must seem "in their own eyes", by involuntarily admitting "that" of which they are the most guilty of themselves?
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.
Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.
Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.
2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”
It is my humble opinion, that every Bible believing christian should LEARN these terms of Jewish teachings. So that when reading the Bible? They may become more knowledgeable of what the writers are meaning, when making inferences to "The LAW!"
GREAT post, Hizzy!
Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.
Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.
Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.
2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”
It is my humble opinion, that every Bible believing christian should LEARN these terms of Jewish teachings. So that when reading the Bible? They may become more knowledgeable of what the writers are meaning, when making inferences to "The LAW!"
GREAT post, Hizzy!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Lol. Ok, thats your problem, You want to focus on keep reading what sin is, When you already know what it is, Which takes away from doing Gods will. Which is loving and deserving others.
Your to focused on rules. Which you do not need, And not love, which you do need.
Good luck with that my friend.
The law was given to condemn, It is to show a non believer that they have sinned, are guilty and what needs to be done to atone for that sin. Thge law apart from the levitical priesthood is useless. People knows what sin is, they do not need to be shown again, They need to know what the penalty of sin is, What will redeem them of their sin, and after they are born again, WHAT must be DONE to turn from sin and walk in newness of life, why by application will make us morally upright people.
I know what God’s Word Defines sin as. If your definition adds or takes away from that, then it’s just that, “your word”.
So then the Mainstream preachers of Christ’s didn’t keep God’s Commandments did they. They kept parts of His Law just like Atheists do and every other person ever born, but they also rejected God’s Law that didn’t suit them and created their own. Mercy and Faith are also part of the Law God gave us through Moses. But like James said, if I keep God’s Sabbath but hate my brother, I am guilty of transgression. Because the same God that said. “Keep the Sabbath Holy, also said Not to hate my brother in my heart.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep. And jesus defined sin by giving the two commands, Love God, and your neighbor.
If we break these two commands, we have sinned. That’s ALL you need to know.
If I know to do right, and do nt do it, I have sinned (because I have chosen to place self over others.
If I love my wife, I will not look on another with lust, I will not dream of another,. I will not be inappropriate with another., and I will not sleep with another.
But I Did not need to know the rest was sin, I sinned th emo,ment I stop putting my needs over my wife’s.
Thats why the law is not needed, It can not help you stop sin, It can not even show you ever sin you could possibly do. At beast it can give you a watered down list of what you think is sin, and make you think you are living righteously when you are not./ And all that does is turn you into a religious zealot and not a child of God who is being sanctified by God.
That’s the problem with you lawyers, you want to focus on laws, and tell everyone how just and righteous you are and how much you love God. (Paul killed christians because he loved God, and thought he was following his law) will the while hiding your sin, and never understanding what it really looks like to grow in christ. Your too busy puffing yourself and making sure you obey rules. Instead of looking to others to serve them.
I would add just three more words for clarification -- "the demands of" -- "Jesus fulfilled the demands of the Law perfectly on behalf of us."
The Law said "The soul that sinneth is shall die". The NT says "The wages of sin is death". So when the sinless Lamb of Goid shed His blood for our redemption, and gave His life for our salvation, He fulfilled the just demands of the Law on behalf of the entire human race.
But that is not what this thread is about. What Christ said in Luke 24:44-46 pertained to His first coming. But He did not make any reference to His second coming at that point. This is what He was talking about (His Passion ans His resurrection): Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day...
But everything has not been fulfilled concerning Christ and what happens at -- and after -- His second coming WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
Last edited:
