Hating and not being consistent.

[nathan3]

...How does one sin generate so much hate, yet it's acceptable to love those who steal? Some thieves never change.. But we are to bring them TO HIM.

Well I cant speak for everyone ells, but naturally I'm against all sin. weather its stealing , etc. But, I'm confused, if you see, any "hate" in my replys? And the thing about this sin is, that its working its way into some Christians mind, like its okay. It has worked into the leaders of some churches . and "lawmakers" are passing laws saying its okay. Soooo this is why this is an issue.

 

[morganlitchfield]

No no haha no not you I am in agreement with you! lol

 

[nathan3]

Just to say again, this sin in particular , is always brought up, because of what is going on in the News. There are a lot of changes and things happening in the world, And this happens to be something always on the news. Weather its lawmakers trying to legalize it. To, leaders of the church themselves, participating in it; and advocating it. In direct conflict with what is written about it in our Heavenly Father's words. So again, this is why, this is such a touchy sin .

I'm sure, that if all that has been happening in this country, and the world, involving this sin was not going on; few Christians would even talk about it. Sadly this kind of sin, has become very common ; Working its way even into Christian churches as acceptable behavior. Again, this is why, your finding Christians speaking up about this, It's just gotten that bad in the world. There are Christians that are more aware then others of the issues we are facing in the world: I don't view it as hate; Christians are just trying to counter the spreading sin .

 

[morganlitchfield]

It's not about "speaking up about it". It's about the people attacking them, some even physically. Why isn't murder brought to attention? That has been going on longer than this subject.. that's my issue. Why just this issue? Why not the gunmen who shoot up schools? Why not the people who mug others? Why does it just have to be them? ..I know sin is sin, that's what I'm saying. If you want to bash someone, be consistent. (Not you, just speaking in general lol).

 

[nathan3]

It's not about "speaking up about it". It's about the people attacking them, some even physically. Why isn't murder brought to attention? That has been going on longer than this subject.. that's my issue. Why just this issue? Why not the gunmen who shoot up schools? Why not the people who mug others? Why does it just have to be them? ..I know sin is sin, that's what I'm saying. If you want to bash someone, be consistent. (Not you, just speaking in general lol).

Everyone has their views on things. Well, I'm not a violent person, I don't like to see other people suffer, if it can be avoided I rather that everyone live in peace. Murder is a problem too. Naturally a Christian is against that , that should be obvious . Again, its just that that sin ( being with the same sex ), has basically become "socially" acceptable behavior. And you will probably at this point, find many Christians, and even leaders, say, that its okay to sleep with the same sex. That is why, this is what it is.

You won't ever hear, ( hopefully ), a pastor say its okay to go our and murder people. But, nowadays , you can find many preachers saying its okay to go out and sleep with the same sex... People ( some Christians ) can be a little insensitive to peoples feelings, i guess. So maybe you have some across this; and that maybe be the attacking your referring to ?

Everyone does cover those other subjects, its just this is something that lawmakers are pushing for, also some leaders of churches are pushing : That is why this is the focus of attention.

 

[morganlitchfield]

The attacking, that and physical, one couple were arrested for holding hands 2 feet away from a church..
Mormons used to hold them in a room and zap them until they were turned back "to normal". I saw a documentary on that..
Not that I agree with the Mormon faith.. I have my views on them as well, but it's ridiculous how people think that violence towards them will change them.. they use that as something that makes them stronger.. And I don't agree with their choices.. but I would take them in and love them and teach them what Jesus said. What the bible says.. not what I say. Not what I feel.

 

[nathan3]

The attacking, that and physical, one couple were arrested for holding hands 2 feet away from a church..
Mormons used to hold them in a room and zap them until they were turned back "to normal". I saw a documentary on that..
Not that I agree with the Mormon faith.. I have my views on them as well, but it's ridiculous how people think that violence towards them will change them.. they use that as something that makes them stronger.. And I don't agree with their choices.. but I would take them in and love them and teach them what Jesus said. What the bible says.. not what I say. Not what I feel.

That is crazy; anyone in their right mind would Not shock people. But, welcome to the world. That's where your living .......

Christ never electrocuted people into changing . We have first hand account of how He treated people. I'm for doing things Christ's way.

Homosexuality as become so common , that probably the majority of people on this site even, knows many people in their day to day life that lives that lifestyle . They probably have at least one family member or two, that is in a relationship with a member of the same sex... I mention that, as being another reason, people bring this up. I have one or two family members that have done that, or are still living that life style; and they consider themselves Christian. They say their prayer at night, before lying down; next to their same sex partner.... I have known many friends that were that way. Even people I did not think was that way, only later I found out they were.

I don't think my experience is unique. So, this is talked about, because its going on ... I think if the world was actually listening to God, this would not be as bad as it is today...

Me personally, I rather talk about the Bible 100% of the time, and let God do the correcting .

 

[morganlitchfield]

Amen, I agree 100%.. I would rather talk to them about Him.. and teach them, rather than trying to actually changing them. I cannot change anyone.. God has that power, though. And it's my job to show, and to teach people about Him!

 

[HEIsRiSen]

Mark 3:35
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Not everybody is a brother or sister even though we all have the same Creator. A person can either choose God as their Father or satan by whom they choose to serve. If a person does not have the same father as myself then they are not a brother/sister to me.

My younger brother is a practicing homosexual and I don't treat him any differently or love him any less, although I have made him well aware that I do not approve of his lifestyle and neither does God. Hate the sin, love the sinner. I don't try to change him because I know that I can't, but God can! I just plant the seed, praying and trusting that God will tend to it.

You hear people say, "If you love me then you would accept me as I am." Wrong! I can love and accept a person without approving of their lifestyle and I do! I would love them much less if I did approve of their lifestyle knowing that the result will be eternal death. Also, murdering, lying and stealing are not lifestyles accepted by modern culture (well, lying is becoming more and more acceptable), but homosexuality is.

There are those who do spew hatred towards gays and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It is unfortunate that there are many Christians out there who behave this way and I doubt many of them have lead sinners to repentance. People aren't led to Christ through hate, but love. A lot of these Christians (I assume you are talking about Christians hating gays) may not be mature in their faith or maybe they forget that while we were all yet sinners, Christ came to die for us... hard to say. Also, the definition of love seems to vary from person to person nowadays, yet the true definition of love is found in the Word (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). Love never fails.

 

[hattiebod]

Mark 3:35
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Not everybody is a brother or sister even though we all have the same Creator. A person can either choose God as their Father or satan by whom they choose to serve. If a person does not have the same father as myself then they are not a brother/sister to me.

My younger brother is a practicing homosexual and I don't treat him any differently or love him any less, although I have made him well aware that I do not approve of his lifestyle and neither does God. Hate the sin, love the sinner. I don't try to change him because I know that I can't, but God can! I just plant the seed, praying and trusting that God will tend to it.

You hear people say, "If you love me then you would accept as I am." Wrong! I can love and accept a person without approving of their lifestyle and I do! I would love them much less if I did approve of their lifestyle knowing that the result will be eternal death. Also, murdering, lying and stealing are not lifestyles accepted by modern culture (well, lying is becoming more and more acceptable), but homosexuality is.

There are those who do spew hatred towards gays and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It is unfortunate that there are many Christians out there who behave this way and I doubt many of them have lead sinners to repentance. People aren't led to Christ through hate, but love. A lot of these Christians (I assume you are talking about Christians hating gays) may not be mature in their faith or maybe they forget that while we were all yet sinners, Christ came to die for us... hard to say. Also, the definition of love seems to vary from person to person nowadays, yet the true definition of love is found in the Word (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). Love never fails.

True. I think it is totally possible to love people and have a relationship with them while still standing for what you believe to be right and true. I have found some friends may not agree with my faith but they can see that I am not going to compromise it to be in the majority. Compromise leads to 'tolerance' and then we can easily tolerate anything! <><

 

[CDavid]

I've been annoyed lately, frustrated, and quite angry.
Finding that everyone around me who considers themselves a Christian, decides to hate their brothers and sisters instead of loving, supporting, and bringing them to Christ. Most, if not all of this is towards the Gay community.
In no way do I support their choices, but nor do I HATE them. They were created by God, saved by Jesus' Blood, and as Christians we are to love them, and bring them TO HIM. Not hate them, scare them away because we find their choices to be "disturbing". Forget about what YOU feel towards them for a second.. where in the bible does God say that He hates the person for sinning, He hates SIN.. but where does He say that He hates the sinner?

Then why do we think that we have that right to hate our brothers and sisters? We all were created by God, right? We all came from Adam and Eve, right? I don't understand it.. and you may call me a Hippy, nature lover.. Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, but I do not support hatred. I do not support the calling out, screaming, and anti-gay rally's that have been going on. And the fact that we cannot seem to look at them as people created by our Creator, but... it seems like most people treat them like dirt.

I haven't heard people complain about thieves, liars, murders.. as much as I do about the gays. Where are the anti-sin protests? The anti-murder, anti-lying, anti-stealing groups? Do they sound too absurd? Why? They themselves ARE SIN.
Being gay is not the only thing in the bible in which God says that it's a sin. There are other things we need to worry about. And we will NOT bring anyone TO HIM by hating them.. Just my rant for the day.. lol

As the father of a lesbian, I have a strong opinion on this issue, but it is not my opinion that matters.
In the book of Leviticus, God told Moses to tell the children of Israel, that sodomy is an abomination; (very much hated by God.)
Whether or not this act of sodomy is between a male and female, a male and another male, a female and another female, or a human and an animal, all sodomy is forbidden, not just by OT law, but those of us who are under grace, are forbidden to participate. Paul tells us that, anyone participating in this behavior, like liars, murders, and drunkards etc. have been given over to a reprobate mind, and will have no part in the kingdom of heaven. This breaks my heart to know my own daughter, unless she will repent and let the Jesus become her Lord, will perish. Out of fatherly love, I have attempted to witness to my daughter, and explain to her, the need to turn away before it is too late. She was brought up in the church, and knows this is against Bible teaching, but she now tells me she thinks Bible teaching is "BS". She says she thinks there is no heaven or hell, and Bible teaching is simply a book written by man to control people. Whether or not this is the way most other sodomites think, I do not know. At any rate, it really does not matter what any man thinks concerning this issue. It only matters what God says in the Bible.

As for the haters; I agree with you 100%. There are many who take their hatred for the sin out on the sinner. When pointing out sin, (and this is one of our assignments, as Paul instructed; ("rebuke and reprove sin in season and out"), it should always be done in a loving manner, as I did with my daughter. Even though sodomy is politically correct and Christian ethics are not, we are still assigned to rebuke and reprove the sin politically correct or not.

Being silent on the issue of sodomy, drug and alcohol abuse, rape, murder, theft and lying, etc, is not Christian behavior, and does not show any Christian love for the sinner whatsoever.

As for thieves,liars, and murders, there are secular laws prohibiting theft, perjury, and murder. There once were laws against all forms of sodomy, but no longer. In fact, in Washington state, sodomy with animals is only a crime, if it can be proven that the animal did not like the act.

It is obvious that the book "Slouching Toward Gomorrah" by Judge Robert Bork, is a quite accurate analysis, of conditions not only in America, but world wide.

If you will take a closer look, I am sure you will find much more hatred directed toward Christians, as they rebuke and reprove sin, coming from the larger part of society, than is directed toward the sodomites from Christians.

 

[Blain]

Morgan i applaud your ability to see through The lords eye's:] However this is the christian world, sure it didn't used to be but it is now. The lord hates sin this is true but i think its more of the choice to live a sinfull life he does not approve of. I mean think about it, adam and eve made it to where every person will be born as a sinner. God knew there was no way to avoid this because we are after all human, abraham was one of the most loyal and trusting person of god. Job was bragged about by god because of his way of loyalty to god. These great men were also sinners but the way they chose to live made them right with god. gays in my opinion probably should not lust after each other, but they are just as precious to god as us so therefore must be loved and treasured. If anyone has a problem with the gays and says hateful things about them they can come talk to me, i can try to make them understand. But people are stubborn these days and even if they know they are wrong they are not willing to change but we have to at least try you know?

 

[morganlitchfield]

Totally.. I understand that it's a sin, but people need to.. try and understand.. hating THEM isn't going to change them.. showing them love, and understanding God hates SIN.. not the person. I totally agree with you, we need to be Christians, and to do that we need to go out and bring people to Him, show them and LOVE and let them know that He loves them.. then.. He can, and will change them. Some people never change... but that is up to them and God, we can't hate them because of that.. it's sad when they don't want to change.. that's how I look at it.

 

[nathan3]

Totally.. I understand that it's a sin, but people need to.. try and understand.. hating THEM isn't going to change them.. showing them love, and understanding God hates SIN.. not the person. I totally agree with you, we need to be Christians, and to do that we need to go out and bring people to Him, show them and LOVE and let them know that He loves them.. then.. He can, and will change them. Some people never change... but that is up to them and God, we can't hate them because of that.. it's sad when they don't want to change.. that's how I look at it.

People, have their own choice to make , and that is between them and God at the end. All we can do is learn the Bible, and live a good life as best we can, when we fall short ask God for that forgiveness and forgive others who wrong us too. And try to be a good Christian example to people, by livin a good Christian life, doing it God's way; treating peoples differences with dignity and respect: maybe they will see that example, and see there is something there, and that Christ can offer a new & better life in Him.

 

[crossnote]

Morgan, is your attitude any different between a homosexual that is struggling wanting free and those that brazen facedly flaunt and push it down societys throat? I think most Christians are against the movement not the individual but often the individual is seen as a representative of the movement.

 

[RedTent]

I think Tribeman is correct when he points out that some people are part of our family, we share the same Father, but some people are not. We are expected to treat those in our family differently, I think, than those who are not.

If we look at the Old Testament for how God reacts to those who are His children (where we can see it more clearly) and those who are not, we see that God loves all but ignores those who are dead in their sins. He told His children over and over to be kind to them, accept them with open arms if they wanted to join them, but stay away from them if their lifestyle threatened God's children's lifestyle. In the New Testament, we have Christ ignoring or scolding the people who would not change from their sin, but having fellowship with those who were open to accepting the Kingdom.

We are told to be sure that all people know of the Kingdom of God.

I think, from all this, we can conclude that we are to label and hate the sin, but not the sinner. We are to have close fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ, but see others as created by God but not in our family. And treating sinners rudely, or deciding we will not help or welcome them is not right.