You demonstrated no effort to correct only to slander. You cannot correct the truth only slander the messenger.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
ember
Guest
what do you think Jesus meant by what He said? again, you are just reaching to try and substantiate your disbelief
Jesus was talking about faith....
you know, if someone does not want to believe? guess what? they don't have to!
why believe it is your duty to try and convince others who do believe, that what they believe is not so...
anyone doing that, is not doing something good...you are actually anti Holy Spirit if you teach that the gifts are no longer operating...that's a scary thing...a bad position to be in
I trust scripture. Trust it enough to have faith to stir up the seas. And, should at some point God need a mountain cast into the sea, I will trust it then as well.
God says "if you have faith as a mustard seed you will cast a mountain into the sea". So my only response can be, that it can indeed happen. Any lesser response (such as that cannot happen) is a slap in the face of God.
The effort I've made is to help you see just how at odds you are with scripture. God says 'A', you say 'not A'. Repeatedly. Either God is a liar or the messenger is a liar. And I choose to believe God over you.
E
ember
Guest
you appear to be getting rather vehement Roger...no one is screaming into the wind...is it windy where you are?
when you state no one has ever provided proof...you simply are denying the proof that has been provided mulitple times to you and others you state what you state
that's fine....not gonna change a thing
If he posts about throwing mountain to the sea and cannot do it....
If he posts about drinking poisons and cannot do it...
We should not believe him when he posts about tongues.
He can fake it more easily than mountain or poison, because its not such a big problem to create some language-like sounds, everybody can do that. Thats why they concentrate on this kind of gift so much. They cannot fake the other ones.
Good. So please do it and film it on your camera. Excuse me I will not trust just your word
E
ember
Guest
I call it testable. We must test everything, even your claims.
Do you have enough faith to throw away mountain or is it just a verse for you to beat up the anti-charismatics without any practical use?
Good. So please do it and film it on your camera. Excuse me I will not trust just your word
I really don't care if you don't trust my word. What concerns me is that you don't trust God's word.
When God says something that is unbelievable to the human mind, I have to think it is the human mind that is faulty, not God's word.
Amazing how you twist things around. No one said that God cannot move mountains only that you do not have even a mustard seeds worth of such faith. In the context of the passage I thing Jesus wanted the disciples to know that even they did not have a mustard seeds worth of faith. All the faith was in Jesus, it was Jesus faith that could move the mountain and Jesus faith that would produce salvation.
You see it's Jesus faith that makes grace efficacious to the sinner not the faith of the sinner. Spiritual truth you are not able to receive.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
He didn't say it first, Jesus did. I think it is scary what you are doing. Are you are challenging the Word of God?Good. So please do it and film it on your camera. Excuse me I will not trust just your word
*
Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him, calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and arena’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” 58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
And that's just Matthew. You could double that with Hebrews 11, and double it again out of all the other books.
So clearly, receiving/working divine gifts is based upon believing- nothing but, and not the other way around.
Matthew 8:
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6“Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” 8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 8
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” 26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. 27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
*
Matthew 9
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
*
Matthew 9
20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.” 22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 9
27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him, calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” 28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored.
*
Matthew 13
53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and arena’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” 58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
Matthew 14
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. 27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.” 29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
*
Matthew 15
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
*
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
*
Matthew 21
18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. 21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
*
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
*
And that's just Matthew. You could double that with Hebrews 11, and double it again out of all the other books.
So clearly, receiving/working divine gifts is based upon believing- nothing but, and not the other way around.
Provide scriptural proof and not experiential anecdotal evidence and we'll talk about it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Sorry charismatics, you failed the test.
You can post as many Scriptures as you wish, you are all afraid to be tested in your claims.
So run to gift of tongues, there you can make some sounds and boast how spiritual you are... Until you can be tested in something more real, there is nothing to talk about and your interpretation of Scripture is not working.
You can post as many Scriptures as you wish, you are all afraid to be tested in your claims.
So run to gift of tongues, there you can make some sounds and boast how spiritual you are... Until you can be tested in something more real, there is nothing to talk about and your interpretation of Scripture is not working.
Scripture being a two edged sword the same warning is applied to your assertions about tongues.
Show from scripture how the tongues you have received are the same as the tongues of Pentecost or any example from the book of Acts.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
ember
Guest
Really Roger?
you know Ricky might be new to your methodology and refusal to believe, but I am not
people have provided reams of proof to you and you mock and just tell them they are wrong
I don't think anyone should waste one more moment of their precious time responding to your request for proof when you have thrown back at anyone who has been considerate enough to believe you are sincere
I know, because I have been one of those people
It's not a sideshow act that occurs at anyone's whim. It is an act of God intended to bring forth the fruit of God. Believe me, if God finds cause to cast a mountain into the sea for His divine purpose, then it will happen. But only among those who believe it - and God - can.
That's the biggest problem with the pentasmatic groups, they do it as a sideshow. So they do it falsely. And in doing it falsely bring doubt into other people's minds. Which then makes the doubter deny it. Which is in direct conflict with God's word.
God's word says what it says. Unbelievable or not.