Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

[eternally-gratefull]

I received the HS when I believed. If I did not. I would have still been lost

 

[Sipsey]

Please provide scripture evidence that being indwelt, filled and baptized by the Holy Spirit are not one in the same.

If you will look at the Greek that translate into these terms, you will see. I will post when I have time.

 

[Sipsey]

Please provide scripture evidence that being indwelt, filled and baptized by the Holy Spirit are not one in the same.

Sorry to took so long to respond. Been quite busy.

Being saved through the power of the Holy Spirit is often referred to as being Baptized by the H.S. It is also referred to as being ’Indwelt” by the Spirit after this action. In the Greek it is never a “Command” to be indwelt.

On there other hand, Paul often talks about believers who are carnal. He is referring to Christians that are out of fellowship, who have grieved or quenched the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that the Spirit no longer resides with them, simply that they need to repent as in 1 John 1:9 so that they are once again “Empowered” by the H.S., instead of being carnal or under the power of ones flesh. In the Greek it is considered a command that is to be continually accomplished.

Here is a brief article that explains the difference with the accompanying verses. Hope this helps explain my position.

What is the difference between the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Spirit?
What Does Indwelling Mean?

1. This indwelling occurs when we first believe. It does not occur twenty years later but rather when you are born again. (Rom. 5:5, 2 Tim. 2:4)
2. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs one time. It is once for all. When Jesus Christ comes into your life as your Lord and Savior, His Spirit takes up permanent residence in you.
3. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is for all believers. Simply claiming to be a Christian does not necessarily mean you are a Christian (Matt. 7:21).

Believers are not commanded to be indwelt or possessed by the Holy Spirit, born-again people arepossessed by the Holy Spirit. The indwelling does not indicate direction in life but position in life.
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).
When God put His Holy Spirit of promise in you, He put Him there until the redemption of the purchased possession. That means a born again person is permanently indwelt!
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13-14).
What Does Being Filled Mean?
Paul addresses a different issue in Galatians 5:16. Paul states, “walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.” This walking in the Spirit is an active relationship with God.
So what is different about being indwelt and being filled by the Spirit?

1. Being filled is a repeated experience. Being filled by God’s Spirit is something you must continually ask God to do.
2. Being filled can be for specific times and assignments. (Acts 4:8)
3. Being filled is for all believers but only affects those who are yielded to God.
4. Being filled can in effect be lost when believers are rebelling against the will of God in their lives.
5. Being filled can be renewed through repentance.
6. Being filled results in the power of the Spirit at work in your life.

Being filled by the Spirit is best understood as being the opposite of being filled by the flesh. Paul reveals this difference when he said to, “walk in the Spirit so you do not fulfill the desires of the flesh.”
Legalism
Many people grow up with legalism as their foundation of the Christian life. Legalistic teaching sounds more like this, “Don’t do this and don’t do that, and you will be a good Christian.” This kind of teaching seldom focuses on what it means to walk in the Spirit but rather focuses on what not to do! Learning how not to walk in the flesh does not necessarily mean you ever learned to walk in the Spirit. Unbelievers can live a good moral lifestyle but that does not mean they are walking in the Spirit. Powerful kingdom living cannot be accomplished unless you are born again.
Illustration
How do you describe being filled with the Spirit? Imagine a bottle of water representing you as a person. The bottle represents your physical body and the water represents the Spirit of God living in you. Suppose the bottle is not completely full of water. If you remove the cap from the bottle and begin to pour more water into the bottle, the bottle is being filled with water.
The bottle already contains the Holy Spirit. This filling with more water does not represent the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the filling of the Holy Spirit. The key is not what you are being filled with but it is the means by which you are filled. For example, the bottle can do nothing of itself (John 15:5). We can do nothing without Christ. To fill the bottle with the water just to say it has water in it is not the focus. An outside source has to fill the bottle. The bottle cannot fill itself.
The water is not the act of walking in the Spirit. The water represents the indwelling Spirit. The bottle contains the Spirit and has the capacity to act upon what is inside. Ephesians 5:18 clarifies this fact.
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
Don’t be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit! God wants us to do what He says and live according to the Spirit. We must come under the control of the Spirit like a drunk comes under control of the spirits. God’s Spirit begins to control you to do things you would not do simply because of your human abilities. When you walk in the ways of God, He begins to do things in and through your life that you could never accomplish with simple human ability. In that sense, a person who knew you before you started walking in God’s ways would think you are drunk because you look and act so different from your old ways.
God indwells you by His Spirit to guide you in His ways. Throughout the Old Testament, God wanted His people to live according to His ways, statutes, judgments, and His commandments. To walk in the Spirit you simply have to do what God says with a heart that is right toward Him.
The key to the illustration of the water bottle is not that it is a bottle and that you can put water in it. A bottle could be filled with dirty water also. The vessel is not as important as the contents of the vessel. We must be filled with the Spirit to be a vessel of righteousness (Rom. 6:13).
So if you are born again, the Holy Spirit is permanently indwelt in you, but you need daily if not moment by moment filling of the Spirit.

 

[throughfaith]

How can one be absolutely sure they have received the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Only by evaluating scripture and finding consistency can this be done. The biblical record includes multiple events that point to the truth of what occurs when the Holy Ghost/Spirit actually enters the human body:

Consider the Apostle Peter’s words concerning the initial arrival of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost:

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.” Acts 2:32-33

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:2-4


Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” Acts 11:15

“While Peter yet these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:44-48


Paul’s interaction with the Ephesus disciples make it clear that tongues flowed from the disciples upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into their bodies:

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:1-6


The story of the Samaritan’s experience is interesting. It is another proof that one does not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe. Ask yourself, How did those present know that the Samaritans HAD NOT received the Holy Ghost when they believed? They knew it because they did not witness the outward evidence of tongues.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:12-18

What exactly did Simon see that made him the Holy Ghost had filled the Samaritans?


Consider what Jesus told Nicodemus, just as the wind, the Holy Ghost/Spirit cannot be seen but it can be heard:
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8


Another thing that I believe is associated, and find fascinating is that God takes control of the one thing man cannot control as evidence of His abiding presence; the tongue:
"For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
But the tongue can no man tame;" (James 3:7-8) However, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26)

Lastly, consider that on the Day of Pentecost just prior to the utterance of tongues a flame resembling a cloven (split) tongue appeared above each person when the Spirit entered their body. (Acts 2:3-4) See an Old Testament parallel:

• The Israelites knew when God was present in the darkness of night by the pillar of flame that appeared above the Old Testament tabernacle. (Exodus 25:8, 22, 29:43,40:34-38)
• New Testament believers ARE God’s tabernacle today. He abides inside of us.

The cloven (split or divided in two) tongue appears to represent that there are two types of tongues: One as the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and two; the Spiritual gift of tongues.


We are told to study the word in order to get a clear understanding of God’s principles. There will always be 2-3 witnesses in the word to confirm if one’s understanding is the actual truth. The foregoing information pertaining to tongues being the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit meets that criterion.

Acts is not the normative pattern for salvation in the Church age . We recieve the Holy Spirit the moment we believe.
eph 1 .13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1 cor 1 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Its that simple . Tongues are a sign gift for the Jews who seek after a sign . This was the evidence at that time that God was transitioning from OT to NT . From Jew to Gentile ( to all in one )

 

[Wansvic]

Sorry to took so long to respond. Been quite busy.

Being saved through the power of the Holy Spirit is often referred to as being Baptized by the H.S. It is also referred to as being ’Indwelt” by the Spirit after this action. In the Greek it is never a “Command” to be indwelt.

On there other hand, Paul often talks about believers who are carnal. He is referring to Christians that are out of fellowship, who have grieved or quenched the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that the Spirit no longer resides with them, simply that they need to repent as in 1 John 1:9 so that they are once again “Empowered” by the H.S., instead of being carnal or under the power of ones flesh. In the Greek it is considered a command that is to be continually accomplished.

Here is a brief article that explains the difference with the accompanying verses. Hope this helps explain my position.

What is the difference between the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Spirit?
What Does Indwelling Mean?

1. This indwelling occurs when we first believe. It does not occur twenty years later but rather when you are born again. (Rom. 5:5, 2 Tim. 2:4)
2. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs one time. It is once for all. When Jesus Christ comes into your life as your Lord and Savior, His Spirit takes up permanent residence in you.
3. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is for all believers. Simply claiming to be a Christian does not necessarily mean you are a Christian (Matt. 7:21).

Believers are not commanded to be indwelt or possessed by the Holy Spirit, born-again people arepossessed by the Holy Spirit. The indwelling does not indicate direction in life but position in life.
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).
When God put His Holy Spirit of promise in you, He put Him there until the redemption of the purchased possession. That means a born again person is permanently indwelt!
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13-14).
What Does Being Filled Mean?
Paul addresses a different issue in Galatians 5:16. Paul states, “walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.” This walking in the Spirit is an active relationship with God.
So what is different about being indwelt and being filled by the Spirit?

1. Being filled is a repeated experience. Being filled by God’s Spirit is something you must continually ask God to do.
2. Being filled can be for specific times and assignments. (Acts 4:8)
3. Being filled is for all believers but only affects those who are yielded to God.
4. Being filled can in effect be lost when believers are rebelling against the will of God in their lives.
5. Being filled can be renewed through repentance.
6. Being filled results in the power of the Spirit at work in your life.

Being filled by the Spirit is best understood as being the opposite of being filled by the flesh. Paul reveals this difference when he said to, “walk in the Spirit so you do not fulfill the desires of the flesh.”
Legalism
Many people grow up with legalism as their foundation of the Christian life. Legalistic teaching sounds more like this, “Don’t do this and don’t do that, and you will be a good Christian.” This kind of teaching seldom focuses on what it means to walk in the Spirit but rather focuses on what not to do! Learning how not to walk in the flesh does not necessarily mean you ever learned to walk in the Spirit. Unbelievers can live a good moral lifestyle but that does not mean they are walking in the Spirit. Powerful kingdom living cannot be accomplished unless you are born again.
Illustration
How do you describe being filled with the Spirit? Imagine a bottle of water representing you as a person. The bottle represents your physical body and the water represents the Spirit of God living in you. Suppose the bottle is not completely full of water. If you remove the cap from the bottle and begin to pour more water into the bottle, the bottle is being filled with water.
The bottle already contains the Holy Spirit. This filling with more water does not represent the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the filling of the Holy Spirit. The key is not what you are being filled with but it is the means by which you are filled. For example, the bottle can do nothing of itself (John 15:5). We can do nothing without Christ. To fill the bottle with the water just to say it has water in it is not the focus. An outside source has to fill the bottle. The bottle cannot fill itself.
The water is not the act of walking in the Spirit. The water represents the indwelling Spirit. The bottle contains the Spirit and has the capacity to act upon what is inside. Ephesians 5:18 clarifies this fact.
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
Don’t be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit! God wants us to do what He says and live according to the Spirit. We must come under the control of the Spirit like a drunk comes under control of the spirits. God’s Spirit begins to control you to do things you would not do simply because of your human abilities. When you walk in the ways of God, He begins to do things in and through your life that you could never accomplish with simple human ability. In that sense, a person who knew you before you started walking in God’s ways would think you are drunk because you look and act so different from your old ways.
God indwells you by His Spirit to guide you in His ways. Throughout the Old Testament, God wanted His people to live according to His ways, statutes, judgments, and His commandments. To walk in the Spirit you simply have to do what God says with a heart that is right toward Him.
The key to the illustration of the water bottle is not that it is a bottle and that you can put water in it. A bottle could be filled with dirty water also. The vessel is not as important as the contents of the vessel. We must be filled with the Spirit to be a vessel of righteousness (Rom. 6:13).
So if you are born again, the Holy Spirit is permanently indwelt in you, but you need daily if not moment by moment filling of the Spirit.

My question was about the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost in conjunction with one's spiritual rebirth.
Your comment about a person receiving the Holy Ghost the moment they believe the gospel is not backed up by the word.

Paul would never have asked the Ephesus disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed if in fact a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed. Paul's question points to belief and receiving the Holy Ghost taking place separately. Many steer the conversation from Paul's initial comment to the experience of the disciples. However, their experience played no part in Paul's initial question to them.

Also, the Samaritans believed the gospel message conveyed to them by Philip and submitted to water baptism. However they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after when Peter and John arrived to assist them in receiving the infilling.

 

[Sipsey]

My question was about the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost in conjunction with one's spiritual rebirth.
Your comment about a person receiving the Holy Ghost the moment they believe the gospel is not backed up by the word.

Paul would never have asked the Ephesus disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed if in fact a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed. Paul's question points to belief and receiving the Holy Ghost taking place separately. Many steer the conversation from Paul's initial comment to the experience of the disciples. However, their experience played no part in Paul's initial question to them.

Also, the Samaritans believed the gospel message conveyed to them by Philip and submitted to water baptism. However they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after when Peter and John arrived to assist them in receiving the infilling.

You should not get your theology from the book of Acts. It is a transitional book.

If you cant see it, so be it. The main thing is that one receives the Holy Spirit at some point.

 

[Wansvic]

Acts is not the normative pattern for salvation in the Church age . We recieve the Holy Spirit the moment we believe.

The Church age actually began on the Day of Pentecost. This is seen in Jesus' words to the apostles in Luke 24:47-49. All are expected to be obedient to the word as it is what all will be judged by. (John 12:48) Peter's instructions on the Day of Pentecost pertain to all those who the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39) The Lord is still calling people.

eph 1 .13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul's comment speaks of the instructions Peter gave that all are to obey upon placing their trust in Jesus.

Peter shared that Jesus was the messiah and upon belief of this news the individuals were to obey the gospel; repent, be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person is sealed with the Holy Ghost upon obedience. Peter states that this is a PROMISE for ALL. (Acts 2:39-40)

Tongues are a sign gift for the Jews who seek after a sign . This was the evidence at that time that God was transitioning from OT to NT . From Jew to Gentile ( to all in one )

Jesus specifically told the Jews that the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonas the Prophet; Jesus' prediction of His own resurrection. (Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29)

 

[Wansvic]

You should not get your theology from the book of Acts. It is a transitional book.

If you cant see it, so be it. The main thing is that one receives the Holy Spirit at some point.

The book of Acts is essential to understand how one is birthed into the NT church. "There is harmony in the books of the bible. None of the books contradict each other. Each book adds to and complements the others; they are a unity." Truth can only be found by gathering every verse in each book pertaining to a subject in order to see what the Spirit has revealed concerning that subject. (Interpreting the Scriptures by Kevin Conner)

My concern is that people think nothing other than believing in Jesus is necessary in order to receive the Holy Ghost. If so, they will not experience the spiritual rebirth that is essential.

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 16:19) Peter then presented the keys, notice not a key, but keys, that provide entrance to all who will believe and obey. (Acts 2:38-42, 8:12-17, 10:44-48)

 

[throughfaith]

The Church age actually began on the Day of Pentecost. This is seen in Jesus' words to the apostles in Luke 24:47-49. All are expected to be obedient to the word as it is what all will be judged by. (John 12:48) Peter's instructions on the Day of Pentecost pertain to all those who the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39) The Lord is still calling people.

Paul's comment speaks of the instructions Peter gave that all are to obey upon placing their trust in Jesus.

Peter shared that Jesus was the messiah and upon belief of this news the individuals were to obey the gospel; repent, be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person is sealed with the Holy Ghost upon obedience. Peter states that this is a PROMISE for ALL. (Acts 2:39-40)

Jesus specifically told the Jews that the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonas the Prophet; Jesus' prediction of His own resurrection. (Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29)

Peters message is to the jews and is not the pattern for salvation in the church age. Acts is the Acts of the Apostles and not a prescription for the normative experience for today.
The signs I was talking about are the signs of the apostles and ..

The Church age actually began on the Day of Pentecost. This is seen in Jesus' words to the apostles in Luke 24:47-49. All are expected to be obedient to the word as it is what all will be judged by. (John 12:48) Peter's instructions on the Day of Pentecost pertain to all those who the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39) The Lord is still calling people.

Paul's comment speaks of the instructions Peter gave that all are to obey upon placing their trust in Jesus.

Peter shared that Jesus was the messiah and upon belief of this news the individuals were to obey the gospel; repent, be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person is sealed with the Holy Ghost upon obedience. Peter states that this is a PROMISE for ALL. (Acts 2:39-40)

Jesus specifically told the Jews that the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonas the Prophet; Jesus' prediction of His own resurrection. (Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29)

Yes the only sign for something specific . Not the only sign..We have other confirmatory 'signs 'given after the resurrection also ..Jews seek after a sign..Tounges , healing , miracles are not arbitrary. They were signs for Jews .

 

[Guojing]

The Church age actually began on the Day of Pentecost. This is seen in Jesus' words to the apostles in Luke 24:47-49. All are expected to be obedient to the word as it is what all will be judged by. (John 12:48) Peter's instructions on the Day of Pentecost pertain to all those who the Lord shall call. (Acts 2:38-39) The Lord is still calling people.

Paul's comment speaks of the instructions Peter gave that all are to obey upon placing their trust in Jesus.

Peter shared that Jesus was the messiah and upon belief of this news the individuals were to obey the gospel; repent, be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person is sealed with the Holy Ghost upon obedience. Peter states that this is a PROMISE for ALL. (Acts 2:39-40)

Jesus specifically told the Jews that the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonas the Prophet; Jesus' prediction of His own resurrection. (Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29)

In the first place, the gospel that saves today is not the gospel that Jesus is the messiah. It is 1 Cor 15:1-4

 

[Fundamental]

I felt the Holy Spirit but I am not to be considered a reborn christian. I don’t call myself christian neither. I try to be christian and I’m a believer of Christ.

But isn’t our Lord casting His Holy Spirit in Samaria proof for all of us? If we’d look into the history of Samaria it seems they were quite a stubborn people. In grip of Simon with his scrocery. But Simon humbles himself. From that point the gospel could spread out over the entire world.

Can you imagine Petrus’ look on his face in Jeruzalem when he heard those Samaratians turned to Christ? (Lol)

 

[throughfaith]

I felt the Holy Spirit but I am not to be considered a reborn christian. I don’t call myself christian neither. I try to be christian and I’m a believer of Christ.

But isn’t our Lord casting His Holy Spirit in Samaria proof for all of us? If we’d look into the history of Samaria it seems they were quite a stubborn people. In grip of Simon with his scrocery. But Simon humbles himself. From that point the gospel could spread out over the entire world.

Can you imagine Petrus’ look on his face in Jeruzalem when he heard those Samaratians turned to Christ? (Lol)

Your not 'born again ' ? is that what you meant ?

 

[Fundamental]

Your not 'born again ' ? is that what you meant ?

Yes, I try to be christian and study His ways. But my ways are still not always His ways.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, I try to be christian and study His ways. But my ways are still not always His ways.

May I ask ,how you became born again ?

 

[Fundamental]

May I ask ,how you became born again ?

Like I said, I don’t consider myself a reborn christian or christian. I’m a follower of Christ falling on my face several times along the proces

But as I was losing myself to this world little over a year ago He touched me and it changed everything in a blilnk of an eye. I went to my girl and wept like a child on her shoulder and stopped doing that very instant what needed to be stopped. If that’s a rebirth, maybe... But I still don’t walk in His image at all.

 

[throughfaith]

Like I said, I don’t consider myself a reborn christian or christian. I’m a follower of Christ falling on my face several times along the proces

But as I was losing myself to this world little over a year ago He touched me and it changed everything in a blilnk of an eye. I went to my girl and wept like a child on her shoulder and stopped doing that very instant what needed to be stopped. If that’s a rebirth, maybe... But I still don’t walk in His image at all.

Ok thank you for sharing . My question is to understand where your coming from better . Probably a better question might be ,how did you become a Christian? Meaning, how did you go from not Believing to believing? And whats your understanding of being 'born again? '( John 3 ) no one's forcing you to answer that question, you can leave it at your testimony if you want , I respect that .

 

[throughfaith]

My question was about the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost in conjunction with one's spiritual rebirth.
Your comment about a person receiving the Holy Ghost the moment they believe the gospel is not backed up by the word.

Paul would never have asked the Ephesus disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed if in fact a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed. Paul's question points to belief and receiving the Holy Ghost taking place separately. Many steer the conversation from Paul's initial comment to the experience of the disciples. However, their experience played no part in Paul's initial question to them.

Also, the Samaritans believed the gospel message conveyed to them by Philip and submitted to water baptism. However they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after when Peter and John arrived to assist them in receiving the infilling.

Do you have a verse after the Acts of the Apostles that supports what you are saying ?Acts is a transition book not a prescription for normative salvation order / experience. The transitions are from OT to NT , Jew / gentile, ect . Some had been following John the Baptist message for example. There's difference in the ' kingdom message v the death , burial and resurrection. Acts 2 38 is different to 1 cor 15 . 1-4 for example.

 

[garee]

My question was about the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost in conjunction with one's spiritual rebirth.
Your comment about a person receiving the Holy Ghost the moment they believe the gospel is not backed up by the word.

Paul would never have asked the Ephesus disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed if in fact a person received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed. Paul's question points to belief and receiving the Holy Ghost taking place separately. Many steer the conversation from Paul's initial comment to the experience of the disciples. However, their experience played no part in Paul's initial question to them.

Also, the Samaritans believed the gospel message conveyed to them by Philip and submitted to water baptism. However they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days after when Peter and John arrived to assist them in receiving the infilling.

As in all cases the faith of God comes by hearing God and not hearing men .Things of men things of God. They must be rightfully divided from those of men.

Christians walk or understand by the unseen eternal not after what the eyes see. . the temporal .

It boils down to how do we define faith the mystery of God? What are the tools he has freely given to make it possible?

The faith of God, or labor in regard to the power of His love it work in us to both will and do His good pleasure is the key to understanding . Filling us with His Holy Spirit. He gives us his understanding . We are born with none, zero

The Holy Spirit gives a person the faith of Christ needed to believe God . Before they believe they are reckoned having no faith .Not little, none.

If he began the good work in us we have already been given His confidence he will continue to work in us to both will and do His god pleasure till the end.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

When we try and divide the fullness of grace from the work of the Holy Spirit .Then its easy to see why some do despite to His grace. The only damnable heresy (opinion )by which we can make a judgment called Blasphemy .

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Catholicism does it openly while other sects attempt to get filled by creating a sign unto themselves (self edify) ."Sign and lying wonder seekers" They as a law of the fathers must call spiritual gift "sign gifts"

They find way they can get their own selves filled as if the fullness was lost somewhere or some leaked out and some need refueling.

Catholics say for instance only Mary alone received the fulness of Grace, the work of the Holy Spirit. While the rest of the pew sitters receive a unknown remnant of Grace and must suffer to work towards being full like Mary. . . with no end in sight or kind of suffering. All pain as sufferings can be offered toward a false hope of being filled . To include abuse by a spouse or a hot ash falling of a cigarette and causing pain . The fathers would whip themselves, starve themselves deprive of all comfort in a attempt of receiving the fulness of grace .. (getting filled with the Holy Spirit)

The Catholic fathers that lord it over the pew sitters personal faith as a personal relationship even give men a opportunity to keep on filling offering their sufferings for another unknow remnant of time called purgatory . In that way they never receive the fullness .Just as those who claim to be filing themselves by some work like making a noise without meaning and falling backward slain in the spirit or a healing . . requiring a human hand with no end in sight.

Most times its performed all togethter as one work . (1) Place hand on forehead, (2)make a noise and (3) give a little push . "Filler uppers". Not with filled by the Holy Spirit but filled lying wonders or false marveling, marveling at what they performed (self edifying ). Jesus spoke of that kind of false filling

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

But they payed no attention to the word and loved their oral traditions of the fathers

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

In other words no seeing no filling up

Times like today with social distances .Put a end to doing the work of getting oneself filled. Separating mankind from the unseen hand of God . No filling stations open today forcing men to look up for the filling . You could say the true sign is believing God. He does the work of filling and keeping full.

 

[garee]

Like I said, I don’t consider myself a reborn christian or christian. I’m a follower of Christ falling on my face several times along the proces

But as I was losing myself to this world little over a year ago He touched me and it changed everything in a blilnk of an eye. I went to my girl and wept like a child on her shoulder and stopped doing that very instant what needed to be stopped. If that’s a rebirth, maybe... But I still don’t walk in His image at all.

The power to repent is not of our own self.

Falling on you face? Because of the source of faith that comes by hearing God who indwells the believer?

Its more of a reborn sinner. All who believe the word of God are given the faith coming from God to make it possible to believe. .No escaping; "a person must be born again". There is only one source of incorruptible faith . Moving a person to repent. It is a result of being born again .

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What do think walking in his image means if not giving up your own image as mankind?

When those who had no faith (none) that comes from hearing the gospel saw the work of the gospel and not the work of the apostles . They accredited it to what the eyes see. They made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men . Called Blasphemy.

In that way I would be careful as to "whose image" you walk after. Some disciples (John 6) walked away in unbelief , no faith. Not born again.

Acts 14:7-12 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: (not his own words) who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith (of Christ) to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet.(the gospel) And he leaped and walked. And when the people (faithless unbelievers) saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

They under the influence of the father of lies accredited Paul as the "chief speaker" or High priest (Mercury) performing the work of our unseen father who worked inside giving Paul his words . And Barnabas Jupiter "sky father " to represent that not seen . And therefore usurping the authority of the father not seen and Son of man seen as one work .Destroying the unseen work of gospel giving it over to the things of men, seen.

 

[garee]

Do you have a verse after the Acts of the Apostles that supports what you are saying ?Acts is a transition book not a prescription for normative salvation order / experience. The transitions are from OT to NT , Jew / gentile, ect . Some had been following John the Baptist message for example. There's difference in the ' kingdom message v the death , burial and resurrection. Acts 2 38 is different to 1 cor 15 . 1-4 for example.

How are they different?