Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

[Wansvic]

You have a corrupted gospel. You gospel has man at the center through works. God's gospel has Himself at the center in Christ. God's gospel is the Holy Spirit creating conviction of sin. of righteousness and judgment. Man is completely unable to save himself and must have God's mercy or he will perish.

The Philippian jailer asked what he needed to do to be saved. He was told only to believe in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul tells the jailer to believe in Jesus and he and all his house will be saved. After making that statement, Paul goes on to share the word of the Lord. Immediately after that Paul water baptizes the jailer and his family. This is a clear indication that the word of the Lord shared with them included the need for them to believe and obey the command to be water baptized. This is consistent with other accounts recorded in Acts 2, 8, 10, 19 as well as Jesus own statement in Mark 16:16; "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."


Acts 16:31-33
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

 

[Wansvic]

Look no one is saved apart from the Holy Spirit. You conflate a false gift of tongues with the presence of the Holy Spirit and endeavor to use it as a badge of salvation. This is completely in error and a false teaching not found in scripture.

The power of God is in the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now SEE AND HEAR...

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:32-33, 38-39

 

[notuptome]

Paul tells the jailer to believe in Jesus and he and all his house will be saved. After making that statement, Paul goes on to share the word of the Lord. Immediately after that Paul water baptizes the jailer and his family. This is a clear indication that the word of the Lord shared with them included the need for them to believe and obey the command to be water baptized. This is consistent with other accounts recorded in Acts 2, 8, 10, 19 as well as Jesus own statement in Mark 16:16; "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."


Acts 16:31-33
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Water baptism after Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism results in regeneration from dead sin to alive in Christ to eternal life.

Through belief one receives the Holy Spirit then one can receive water baptism as a testimony of what they believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now SEE AND HEAR...

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:32-33, 38-39

This is promised to all believers. It has nothing to do with tongues or water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

This is promised to all believers. It has nothing to do with tongues or water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Peter told the group at Pentecost that what they were hearing (tongues) was in fact the promised Holy Ghost. It can't get any clearer than that.

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now SEE AND HEAR..."

 

[Wansvic]

Water baptism after Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism results in regeneration from dead sin to alive in Christ to eternal life.

Through belief one receives the Holy Spirit then one can receive water baptism as a testimony of what they believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You are echoing a man-made tradition not what the word clearly conveys on the subjects. See Acts 8 and 19 in reference to the fact that people do not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe.

Water baptism is not done as a public display. The word states it is for the remission of sin. This is witnessed by Jesus' own statements and John the Baptist's teachings as well. (Luke 24:47, Luke 3)

I know you don't believe this and you are entitled to your beliefs. We must all make our own choice after being presented with the truth.

 

[wolfwint]

I also received the Holy Spirit after believing.
I think confusion happens, because the apostles used to lay hands on people. They would lay hands after people got baptized. By this the people received the GIFTS of the Holy Spirit.

@Wansvic
It is not even possible to confess faith in Jesus without the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

So, in declaring our faith in Jesus, we do it by the Holy Ghost.

Here is another Scripture second witness... in Acts 10. Here, Peter is preaching the Gospel to Cornelius' household:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [because they believed what they were hearing... apparently?]
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

So, here's the example of people in the Bible receiving the Holy Spirit upon hearing and believing - immediately. They only get baptized afterwards.

I see this like you.
And I would add it is difficult to envelope doctrines out of the book of acts. Acts is manly a report about the beginning and the First time of christianity. Of course we can find doctrine like in acts 15 in the concile in Jerusalem. The events in acts 8, 10 and 19 are according my understanding a proof for the jews that the Gospel is also for the samaritians, the gentiles and the disciples of John the Baptist and not a creation of an doctrine how people receive the Holy Spirit or as an proof that all Christians will speak in tongues when they are baptised with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Guojing]

I see this like you.
And I would add it is difficult to envelope doctrines out of the book of acts. Acts is manly a report about the beginning and the First time of christianity. Of course we can find doctrine like in acts 15 in the concile in Jerusalem. The events in acts 8, 10 and 19 are according my understanding a proof for the jews that the Gospel is also for the samaritians, the gentiles and the disciples of John the Baptist and not a creation of an doctrine how people receive the Holy Spirit or as an proof that all Christians will speak in tongues when they are baptised with the Holy Spirit.

There was no revelation of the mystery at Acts 10 yet, and scripture was not completed.

None of them knew 1 Cor 15:1-4 that people can be saved by just believing in the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

Peter himself did not preach that to Cornelius, instead he said in Acts 10 that one need to "work righteousness" in order to be accepted, which is in line with what he will later write to Israel in 1 Peter 4:12-19.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Without Paul's revelations and the completed scriptures, Israel needed signs to believe that someone was saved, so that was a period of time where God confirmed that gentiles can now be saved, without Israel, without the law, thru them speaking in tongues, which astonished all the Jewish believers present.

If you recall the final verse of Mark

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The Lord was confirmed the preached word, or the spoken word, with signs. it was necessary since they did not have the completed scriptures yet.

But once scripture is completed and Paul's revelation of the mystery completely written down, we are no longer to look for signs. We believe one is saved the moment he believes in the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

That is why using Acts for salvation doctrine is so problematic, it was a transitional time period between Israel's program and the program of the Body of Christ.

 

[wolfwint]

Thank you for your honesty.

Please understand that what is say next is clarification and NOT criticism. My intent is to show some ways that "Born Again" and "Believer" are NOT the same. Ok, Here goes:


I noticed this time that you added a qualifier to the word "believer". You added "in Jesus"...

You clarified "an believer...IN JESUS" because the word "believer" (without the qualifier) is vague and COULD mean something else. Instinctively you know this (which is why you added the qualifier).

"Believer" by itself doesn't really convey what the person is believing in or exactly what the person's beliefs ARE. Believer just means someone who BELIEVES... SOMETHING. What they "believe" could be completely WRONG. For example: A person can be a BELIEVER...In SATAN.

But notice that you don't need to add a qualifier to the term "Born Again". Born Again is more specific. For example: It is impossible to be BORN AGAIN...in SATAN.

Are you with me so far?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes, the thing is, it the question to which group we are talking. I grew up among protestants and catholics. They see themself as believers. And mean to believe in God. When I was 18 I heared the First time that I should believe in Jesus. And I said go away with Jesus I have my own believe in God. (The most people in Germany who claim that they are Christians, believe in God, but not in Jesus Christ, as I did) Around seven years later I met again Christians who told me about Jesus. Since I am a real born again Christian. I add those things like in Jesus ore born again. Because I am not shure if the Person I speak to has the same understanding when I am speak from an believer. ( For me is an believer bornagain, I dont separate it, but as I tryed to explain others may understand something else)

 

[notuptome]

Peter told the group at Pentecost that what they were hearing (tongues) was in fact the promised Holy Ghost. It can't get any clearer than that.

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now SEE AND HEAR..."

Peter and the others had already received the Holy Spirit in John 20 when Jesus breathed Him upon them. What you have in Acts is a filling of the Holy Spirit for power to minister or in this case preach to the unsaved folks present.

You are so far down the road to apostacy that it is difficult to see if you were ever saved. Soon you will arrive at blasphemy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You are echoing a man-made tradition not what the word clearly conveys on the subjects. See Acts 8 and 19 in reference to the fact that people do not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe.

Water baptism is not done as a public display. The word states it is for the remission of sin. This is witnessed by Jesus' own statements and John the Baptist's teachings as well. (Luke 24:47, Luke 3)

I know you don't believe this and you are entitled to your beliefs. We must all make our own choice after being presented with the truth.

Baloney. The soul is quickened by the Holy Spirit. You cannot be born again until you have received the Holy Spirit by grace, through faith. The eunuch received water baptism after belief. You are unwilling to see the separation between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism in the scriptures.

Here again you are very close to blasphemy.

Water can only clean the outside but man needs the Holy Spirit to give life to the soul dead in trespass and sin. Titus 3:5

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

Peter and the others had already received the Holy Spirit in John 20 when Jesus breathed Him upon them. What you have in Acts is a filling of the Holy Spirit for power to minister or in this case preach to the unsaved folks present.

You are so far down the road to apostacy that it is difficult to see if you were ever saved. Soon you will arrive at blasphemy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is commonly understood that the Holy Ghost did not take up residence in the apostles bodies in the John 20 account. W.E. Vine speaks to this:

“Receive ye the Holy Spirit” (R.V. margin) referred not merely to His own breath, it was symbolic of the Holy Spirit as about to be sent at Pentecost. It was connected with their being sent out into the world, and with the effect of their ministry of the Gospel in the forgiveness of sins by the Spirit’s power, or the retention of sins by the rejection of the message (vv. 23,24). It was a prophetic act as well as symbolic4. W.E. Vine

 

[Wansvic]

Baloney. The soul is quickened by the Holy Spirit. You cannot be born again until you have received the Holy Spirit by grace, through faith. The eunuch received water baptism after belief. You are unwilling to see the separation between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism in the scriptures.

Here again you are very close to blasphemy.

Water can only clean the outside but man needs the Holy Spirit to give life to the soul dead in trespass and sin. Titus 3:5

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I never said a person is born again without their receiving the Holy Ghost. My points were in relation to:
1. The Holy Ghost is not immediately received upon one's belief of the gospel message. (Acts 8 and 10)
2. Water baptism is not done as a public display. One's obedience to water baptism, instituted by God, brings about the washing away of one's personal sins made available ONLY by Jesus' sacrifice.

The eunuch's asking to be water baptized speaks to Philip's message having included one's need to do it. This perfectly parallels with Jesus' words in Mark 16:16.

The gospel message includes the fact of Jesus death, burial and resurrection providing forgiveness of sins, mankind's need to respond in repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of their personal sins, and the Holy Spirit taking up residence in the person's body.

 

[notuptome]

It is commonly understood that the Holy Ghost did not take up residence in the apostles bodies in the John 20 account. W.E. Vine speaks to this:

“Receive ye the Holy Spirit” (R.V. margin) referred not merely to His own breath, it was symbolic of the Holy Spirit as about to be sent at Pentecost. It was connected with their being sent out into the world, and with the effect of their ministry of the Gospel in the forgiveness of sins by the Spirit’s power, or the retention of sins by the rejection of the message (vv. 23,24). It was a prophetic act as well as symbolic4. W.E. Vine

You can grind as long as you have strength but you cannot escape that the soul which is dead cannot be made alive until the Holy Spirit gives it new life in Christ. It is all God's doing and not wrought by water baptism.

You are heaping to yourself teachers having itching ears. If you dig long enough you will find someone to support your position. Gods word declares that we must be made alive by the Holy Spirit. You are not saved until you are born again in Christ by grace through faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I never said a person is born again without their receiving the Holy Ghost. My points were in relation to:
1. The Holy Ghost is not immediately received upon one's belief of the gospel message. (Acts 8 and 10)
2. Water baptism is not done as a public display. One's obedience to water baptism, instituted by God, brings about the washing away of one's personal sins made available ONLY by Jesus' sacrifice.

The eunuch's asking to be water baptized speaks to Philip's message having included one's need to do it. This perfectly parallels with Jesus' words in Mark 16:16.

The gospel message includes the fact of Jesus death, burial and resurrection providing forgiveness of sins, mankind's need to respond in repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of their personal sins, and the Holy Spirit taking up residence in the person's body.

Now you are double talking. The Holy Spirit is the part of the God-head that acts to make a person alive in Christ.

Philip did not say water baptism was part of salvation. Philip said if thou believest thou mayest. He did not say thou must but thou may.

Mark 16:16 is not in the earliest manuscript evidence. Nonetheless you misinterpret what we have in that water is not the baptism present in this verse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

Now you are double talking. The Holy Spirit is the part of the God-head that acts to make a person alive in Christ.

Philip did not say water baptism was part of salvation. Philip said if thou believest thou mayest. He did not say thou must but thou may.

Mark 16:16 is not in the earliest manuscript evidence. Nonetheless you misinterpret what we have in that water is not the baptism present in this verse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am not double talking as you say. The entire gospel message includes the information pertaining to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and obedience concerning repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost. ALL are necessary to believe in according to scripture.

Also, Philip surely shared the same gospel message that included the need to be water baptized with the Ethiopian that he had shared with the Samaritans in the preceding verses. The Samaritans believed the word of the Lord that included the instruction for them to submit to water baptism in Jesus' name, and days later they received the Holy Ghost via assistance by Peter and John. (Acts 8)

I find it interesting that people such as yourself discount certain scripture when it does not reflect their beliefs. (Mark 16:16) Refusing to accept inspired scripture that depicts Jesus' actual words is not wise. Consider that the word in it's entirety is what everyone will be judged by according to Jesus Himself.

 

[Wansvic]

You can grind as long as you have strength but you cannot escape that the soul which is dead cannot be made alive until the Holy Spirit gives it new life in Christ. It is all God's doing and not wrought by water baptism.

You are heaping to yourself teachers having itching ears. If you dig long enough you will find someone to support your position. Gods word declares that we must be made alive by the Holy Spirit. You are not saved until you are born again in Christ by grace through faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

As I said and will continue to do so, is everyone is required to repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost it is part of the salvation plan of God according to scripture. (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19, etc.) I have shared the message as instructed in the word. It is not my job to make you believe anything. Whether you believe that or not is between you and God.

 

[notuptome]

As I said and will continue to do so, is everyone is required to repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost it is part of the salvation plan of God according to scripture. (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19, etc.) I have shared the message as instructed in the word. It is not my job to make you believe anything. Whether you believe that or not is between you and God.

You are determined to add to the gospel and produce a corrupted gospel as a result.

You saying something that is not biblical does not make it any more true than if an atheist said the same thing.

A falsehood no matter how ardently believed is still a falsehood when it is not biblical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger