Having the Courage to Question Islamic Claims About the Bible

[Musicmaster]

Dr. David Wood spoke brilliantly in his debate with a former Christian who converted to Islam. The Islamic convert challenged the integrity of the Bible by pointing to what he viewed as negative portrayals of prophets such as King David and Lot, the Israelites’ disobedience to their prophets and the lack of systematic memorization compared to the Quran. His arguments questioned why Christians trust a text he believes were corrupted.

The Christian alongside with Dr. Wood, defending the Bible’s authenticity, stated his primary belief to be rooted in Jesus’s death and resurrection, and Jesus’s affirmation of the scriptures (which you Gentiles call the OT). He argued that the Bible’s honest portrayal of its heroes’ sins increases trustworthiness, not diminish it and he contended that the Islamic view of the crucifixion echoes Gnostic/Docetist heresies, suggesting Muhammad plagiarized from contradictory sources because of their disagreement with even one another.

1. The debate centered on whether the Bible is corrupted or preserved, with unintended implications for the validity of both Islam and Christianity, even though Dr. Wood was more than adept at his defenses of the Bible.
2. The Bible’s portrayal of flawed prophets, although seen as corruption by the Muslim convert, was a great counter as authenticity and moral honesty of the Bible as brought forth by the Christian speaker.
3. The origin of the Quran’s crucifixion account is a major contention with no legitimate, historic backing. The Christian speakers all agreed the Quran was borrowed from Gnostic/Docetist sources, which opposed both Islam and mainstream Christianity.
4. The authority of Jesus was/is central to the Christian argument since Jesus confirmed the "Old Testament" scriptures, thus their reliability.

What about you? How would YOU defend your faith in the face of an ever-increasing encroachment of Islam around the world?

MM

 

[Gideon300]

Dr. David Wood spoke brilliantly in his debate with a former Christian who converted to Islam. The Islamic convert challenged the integrity of the Bible by pointing to what he viewed as negative portrayals of prophets such as King David and Lot, the Israelites’ disobedience to their prophets and the lack of systematic memorization compared to the Quran. His arguments questioned why Christians trust a text he believes were corrupted.

The Christian alongside with Dr. Wood, defending the Bible’s authenticity, stated his primary belief to be rooted in Jesus’s death and resurrection, and Jesus’s affirmation of the scriptures (which you Gentiles call the OT). He argued that the Bible’s honest portrayal of its heroes’ sins increases trustworthiness, not diminish it and he contended that the Islamic view of the crucifixion echoes Gnostic/Docetist heresies, suggesting Muhammad plagiarized from contradictory sources because of their disagreement with even one another.

1. The debate centered on whether the Bible is corrupted or preserved, with unintended implications for the validity of both Islam and Christianity, even though Dr. Wood was more than adept at his defenses of the Bible.
2. The Bible’s portrayal of flawed prophets, although seen as corruption by the Muslim convert, was a great counter as authenticity and moral honesty of the Bible as brought forth by the Christian speaker.
3. The origin of the Quran’s crucifixion account is a major contention with no legitimate, historic backing. The Christian speakers all agreed the Quran was borrowed from Gnostic/Docetist sources, which opposed both Islam and mainstream Christianity.
4. The authority of Jesus was/is central to the Christian argument since Jesus confirmed the "Old Testament" scriptures, thus their reliability.

What about you? How would YOU defend your faith in the face of an ever-increasing encroachment of Islam around the world?

MM

Dr Wood is correct that negative portrayals support authenticity rather than diminish it. I would also point out that archaeologists have discovered a great deal that supports the OT narrative.

The Quran is full of self contradictions. The main one is the "people of the book" narrative in the earlier chapters. This is the concept that Christians and Jews have their own "Holy Book" (The Bible) and so do not need another. So the implication is that Christians and Jews are not subject to Islam. Later, the Quran condemns anyone who rejects Islam, including "people of the book." It seems pretty obvious that Mo could not get people to sign up to his false religion voluntarily. So his method change to violence and forceful coercion.

How anyone could claim to be Christian and then turn to Islam is beyond my comprehension. I say that no true believer could convert to Islam. Their conscience would not permit it.

Mo and Lord Jesus could not be more different. Mo and his many of his now followers seek an earthly kingdom using worldly ways that are evil. Mo's followers routinely kill Christians, Jews and anyone who refuses to kowtow to their religion of death. The only way Islam can keep hold of its followers is to likewise threaten death to those who turn away Islam.​

 

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was crucified upon a cross for our sins and he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Muslims deny the crucifixion of Jesus. They also claim Jesus was only a prophet. Muslims do not believe in the Godhead. The Lord Jesus Christ is both God and the Son of God. Salvation comes by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord wants us to abide in him so we bear much fruit.

(KJV 1 Corinthians 15:3-7) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles."

(KJV Isaiah 9:6) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

(KJV John 8:58) "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

(KJV 1 John 5:7-11) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

(KJV Ephesians 2:8-9) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

(KJV John 15:5-6) "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

(KJV Revelation 22:14) "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

 

[OMC]

What about you? How would YOU defend your faith in the face of an ever-increasing encroachment of Islam around the world?

Such a deep question,,, my defense of the faith wouldn't be by fear of Islam or any other expanding belief system.
it would be shaped by the Lordship of Christ and the pattern Scripture gives me.
I'd stand firm by grounding myself in the gospel, by living in a way that reflects the fruit of the Spirit, and by giving a clear, reasoned account of the hope within me.
I don’t defend the faith by attacking others; I defend it by embodying Christ’s truth, Christ’s character, and Christ’s courage.
The rise of any religion doesn’t shake me, because the gospel has never depended on cultural dominance.
it has always advanced through faithful witness, sacrificial love, and the power of the resurrection.
So my defense is simple and steady, I speak Christ faithfully, I live Christ visibly, and I trust Christ completely.

 

[Musicmaster]

Dr Wood is correct that negative portrayals support authenticity rather than diminish it. I would also point out that archaeologists have discovered a great deal that supports the OT narrative.​

Yes indeed. I've thoroughly enjoyed the BAR publication through the years, trying to keep up with archaeological finds that clearly support the Bible.

The Quran is full of self contradictions. The main one is the "people of the book" narrative in the earlier chapters. This is the concept that Christians and Jews have their own "Holy Book" (The Bible) and so do not need another. So the implication is that Christians and Jews are not subject to Islam. Later, the Quran condemns anyone who rejects Islam, including "people of the book." It seems pretty obvious that Mo could not get people to sign up to his false religion voluntarily. So his method change to violence and forceful coercion.

How anyone could claim to be Christian and then turn to Islam is beyond my comprehension. I say that no true believer could convert to Islam. Their conscience would not permit it.

Mo and Lord Jesus could not be more different. Mo and his many of his now followers seek an earthly kingdom using worldly ways that are evil. Mo's followers routinely kill Christians, Jews and anyone who refuses to kowtow to their religion of death. The only way Islam can keep hold of its followers is to likewise threaten death to those who turn away Islam.​

Wretched Radio has a video in their channel showing a 60 year old Shiite man forcibly marrying an 8 year old girl who is barely able to sign the marriage contract because of her sobs and crying in an extreme emotional state. It wasn't giddiness, she was deeply upset and Western feminists remain silent to this day and beyond, with university students not at all breaking ranks of the support for Islam. Not one criticism is to be heard from them, which shows which side they're on in relation to the Satanic hoards of fallen angels.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Such a deep question,,, my defense of the faith wouldn't be by fear of Islam or any other expanding belief system.
it would be shaped by the Lordship of Christ and the pattern Scripture gives me.
I'd stand firm by grounding myself in the gospel, by living in a way that reflects the fruit of the Spirit, and by giving a clear, reasoned account of the hope within me.
I don’t defend the faith by attacking others; I defend it by embodying Christ’s truth, Christ’s character, and Christ’s courage.
The rise of any religion doesn’t shake me, because the gospel has never depended on cultural dominance.
it has always advanced through faithful witness, sacrificial love, and the power of the resurrection.
So my defense is simple and steady, I speak Christ faithfully, I live Christ visibly, and I trust Christ completely.

And yet we do at times find ourselves having to stand up for the truth of the Bible by showing the errors in other religions thrown into the mix of discussion, which, in their estimation, is indeed an assault upon their beliefs and their written sources.

Here in the West, most people in this modern culture surrounding us are oblivious to Rule #1 - NEVER violate the law of non-contradiction. When we deal head-on with the assumed contradictions in the Bible compared to the plethora of contradictions in their own religions while in discussions with them, one is inevitably going to end up having to sink into the depths of the destruction zone littered with the shrapnel from detonated falsehoods normally used to bolster false religions such as Islam.

MM

 

[Gideon300]

Such a deep question,,, my defense of the faith wouldn't be by fear of Islam or any other expanding belief system.
it would be shaped by the Lordship of Christ and the pattern Scripture gives me.
I'd stand firm by grounding myself in the gospel, by living in a way that reflects the fruit of the Spirit, and by giving a clear, reasoned account of the hope within me.
I don’t defend the faith by attacking others; I defend it by embodying Christ’s truth, Christ’s character, and Christ’s courage.
The rise of any religion doesn’t shake me, because the gospel has never depended on cultural dominance.
it has always advanced through faithful witness, sacrificial love, and the power of the resurrection.
So my defense is simple and steady, I speak Christ faithfully, I live Christ visibly, and I trust Christ completely.

Truth is not cultural dominance. Islam is not a culture, it's Satan's attempt to replace God's kingdom with his own. Sure, there are cultural Muslims as their are cultural Christians. They are not the problem. It's the religious fanatics that are murdering tens of thousands of believers, imagining that they are the true religion. Personally, I would do and say whatever it took to wake those up who have been blinded by Islam.

I'm not shaken either. That is not the point. Islam is murdering believers, often with impunity.

The good news is that God is able to save Muslims. A good number of Muslims are rejecting Islam and turning to Christ at great cost to themselves.

Too many Christians believe that Islam is an "Abrahamic" religion, whatever that means. The implication is that they worship the same God as Christians. That is false. Islam's god is Satan.​

 

[OMC]

Truth is not cultural dominance. Islam is not a culture, it's Satan's attempt to replace God's kingdom with his own. Sure, there are cultural Muslims as their are cultural Christians. They are not the problem. It's the religious fanatics that are murdering tens of thousands of believers, imagining that they are the true religion. Personally, I would do and say whatever it took to wake those up who have been blinded by Islam.

I'm not shaken either. That is not the point. Islam is murdering believers, often with impunity.

The good news is that God is able to save Muslims. A good number of Muslims are rejecting Islam and turning to Christ at great cost to themselves.

Too many Christians believe that Islam is an "Abrahamic" religion, whatever that means. The implication is that they worship the same God as Christians. That is false. Islam's god is Satan

The violence committed by religious extremists, whether in Islamic contexts or any other, is real, grievous, and exactly what Jesus foretold when He said that “those who kill you will think they are offering service to God.”
But Scripture never permits us to collapse an entire people or religion into the identity of their persecutors, nor to assign satanic identity to whole groups.
What Scripture does allow us to say is that any system that denies the Son is darkness, and any doctrine that turns people away from Christ is deception; John calls such denial antichrist in principle, not in ethnicity.
So while Islamic extremism is indeed murdering believers, and while Islamic doctrine rejects the cross, the resurrection, and the Son, I must speak in the categories Scripture itself gives: deception, darkness, falsehood, and antichrist—never the wholesale demonization of peoples.
And yes, God is saving Muslims at great cost to themselves, proving that the gospel’s reach is not cultural but sovereign.
The error is not “Muslims”; the error is any religious system that denies Christ, and Scripture teaches us to confront that error with truth, courage, and love rather than with categories it never authorizes.

 

[Gideon300]

The violence committed by religious extremists, whether in Islamic contexts or any other, is real, grievous, and exactly what Jesus foretold when He said that “those who kill you will think they are offering service to God.”
But Scripture never permits us to collapse an entire people or religion into the identity of their persecutors, nor to assign satanic identity to whole groups.
What Scripture does allow us to say is that any system that denies the Son is darkness, and any doctrine that turns people away from Christ is deception; John calls such denial antichrist in principle, not in ethnicity.
So while Islamic extremism is indeed murdering believers, and while Islamic doctrine rejects the cross, the resurrection, and the Son, I must speak in the categories Scripture itself gives: deception, darkness, falsehood, and antichrist—never the wholesale demonization of peoples.
And yes, God is saving Muslims at great cost to themselves, proving that the gospel’s reach is not cultural but sovereign.
The error is not “Muslims”; the error is any religious system that denies Christ, and Scripture teaches us to confront that error with truth, courage, and love rather than with categories it never authorizes.

Such people categorise themselves. Yes, every religion is false. They all have one thing in common. It is man reaching up to find God. It is impossible. God reached down to us.

Just the same, some Muslims quote the Quran to justify their beliefs. To them, it is their "Holy Book", superior to God's word. I am no expert, but I know enough to dismantle that false belief. If necessary, that is what I will do.

By the way, Islam did not exist when the Bible was written.

 

[Omegatime]

Such people categorise themselves. Yes, every religion is false. They all have one thing in common. It is man reaching up to find God. It is impossible. God reached down to us.

Just the same, some Muslims quote the Quran to justify their beliefs. To them, it is their "Holy Book", superior to God's word. I am no expert, but I know enough to dismantle that false belief. If necessary, that is what I will do.

By the way, Islam did not exist when the Bible was written.

The Qur’an was revealed between 610 and 632 CE and first compiled as a complete written book around 633 CE under Caliph Abu Bakr, then standardized around 650 CE under Caliph Uthman.​

 

[Musicmaster]

Such people categorise themselves. Yes, every religion is false. They all have one thing in common. It is man reaching up to find God. It is impossible. God reached down to us.

Going by the words you chose to express your thoughts along this line, I have to interject:

Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Acts 17:27 [At Mars Hill]
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

When you call upon "find" to say they cannot "find" Him, well, that's not what the Lord said about Himself. If you meant salvation apart from God, then I will agree, but He has made Himself close and discoverable to us all those who diligently seek Him. Yes, salvation comes only from Him and His work, not ours, but discovery and the inclination to seek Him out, that obviously is an ability within all men given that we ALL are created in His Image, dare we read scripture for what it says.

Just the same, some Muslims quote the Quran to justify their beliefs. To them, it is their "Holy Book", superior to God's word. I am no expert, but I know enough to dismantle that false belief. If necessary, that is what I will do.

By the way, Islam did not exist when the Bible was written.

That's like saying extreme Calvinists quote the Bible to justify their beliefs about God, in that He is so unjust as to punish in everlasting fire those He intentionally chose to not "give the ability" to seek Him for His salvation, thus the Lord Himself populating Hell by some arbitrary basis that no Calvinist dare put their finger upon other than to falsely claim "God is Sovereign" (in the sense that many people that term to apply or imply).

As a Jew, I love all, no matter their beliefs. That's what we're commanded to do.

MM

 

[Omegatime]

As far as Islam and reaching those who are lost. Their faith is built on plagiarism for they believe in one God, Adam and Eve, Abraham and even Moses. No doubt that it came from the Torah and more than 600 years after Christ the Koran came to be.

 

[OMC]

As far as Islam and reaching those who are lost. Their faith is built on plagiarism for they believe in one God, Adam and Eve, Abraham and even Moses. No doubt that it came from the Torah and more than 600 years after Christ the Koran came to be.

The crucifixion is historically placed around 30–33 AD, while Islam begins with Muhammad’s first reported revelations in 610 AD. Based on these widely accepted dates, the interval is approximately 580 years.

 

[Gideon300]

Going by the words you chose to express your thoughts along this line, I have to interject:

Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Acts 17:27 [At Mars Hill]
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

When you call upon "find" to say they cannot "find" Him, well, that's not what the Lord said about Himself. If you meant salvation apart from God, then I will agree, but He has made Himself close and discoverable to us all those who diligently seek Him. Yes, salvation comes only from Him and His work, not ours, but discovery and the inclination to seek Him out, that obviously is an ability within all men given that we ALL are created in His Image, dare we read scripture for what it says.



That's like saying extreme Calvinists quote the Bible to justify their beliefs about God, in that He is so unjust as to punish in everlasting fire those He intentionally chose to not "give the ability" to seek Him for His salvation, thus the Lord Himself populating Hell by some arbitrary basis that no Calvinist dare put their finger upon other than to falsely claim "God is Sovereign" (in the sense that many people that term to apply or imply).

As a Jew, I love all, no matter their beliefs. That's what we're commanded to do.

MM

Loving people does not mean ignoring beliefs they have that are contrary to God's word. I don't raise the subject if they do not. For example, my wife and I recently led someone to Jesus. She was raised Catholic, but we did not address any Catholic doctrines. We gave her the simple gospel and she received. Glory to Jesus, she could not have been more ready. We had nothing to do with that!

However, we are always ready to answer objections as best we can. "Whataboutism" can be a pain, but sometimes the objections are genuine.

I have nothing personal against Muslims generally. I've met four through the hospital system. They were fine. I did not get the opportunity to witness to them.​

 

[Musicmaster]

Loving people does not mean ignoring beliefs they have that are contrary to God's word. I don't raise the subject if they do not. For example, my wife and I recently led someone to Jesus. She was raised Catholic, but we did not address any Catholic doctrines. We gave her the simple gospel and she received. Glory to Jesus, she could not have been more ready. We had nothing to do with that!​

I'm confused. Did someone in here suggest ignoring other's beliefs? Granted, others sometimes create the opportunities, sometimes not, which is why I initiate it (since we're sharing experiences). So, how does ignoring what others believe jive with what I had said to you earlier?

However, we are always ready to answer objections as best we can. "Whataboutism" can be a pain, but sometimes the objections are genuine.​

Objections to what, may I ask? The Bible? My experience with unbelievers is that their objections are easily answered. The difference is how high each individual sets the bar of their acceptance. Most unbelievers set that bar so high that no amount of evidence and/or rational explanation will ever get over the top to reach them. What that shows, then, is that they never had any desire to consider anything apart from what they've chosen to believe, thus Romans 1 in that they are ALL without excuse. I'm sure we agree on that, but it needed to be said for the benefit of others reading these posts.

I have nothing personal against Muslims generally. I've met four through the hospital system. They were fine. I did not get the opportunity to witness to them.​

Many within our ranks of Jewish people believe we have reason to especially hate Islamics. I myself do hate the religion itself, but not the people. Granted, it takes people and their mental abilities for any religious system to exist at all, but there are precious souls within those systems with hearts not given entirely over to their god Satan and thus willing to give ear to challenges.

MM