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shotgunner
Guest
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shotgunner
Guest
Think about when Satan told Jesus that if he would bow down and worship him then he would give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. Satan wasn't lying when he said they had been given to him. Gaining those kingdoms back from Satan was exactly what Jesus came to do and now Satan is offering them to Jesus without Jesus having to die a horrible death. I think it was more of a temptation than we see when we just casually read the scriptures.
No, "Thank you" for this answer. Considering the rather abrupt way I posted, you were more than gracious in your answer. I do apologize for not posting more benignly. I guess I am just getting accustomed to replying too sharply. I gotta work on that.
I never said he had flesh full of sin..as a matter of fact he did no sin, but became sin for us...he took upon himself all of our sin, but was without sin....
I agree....and yet he was tempted in all points as we are tempted..to say he did not have the ability to sin just as Adam did undermines the testing and temptations that he endured....
I don't believe it states Adam was tempted to sin. Eve, says Paul, was deceived.
Sin is a mystery. How could sin come from a perfect being made in the image of God? There's no answer. The Bible calls this "the mystery of iniquity".
Adam wasn't deceived like Eve was, but he was tempted and fell. He loved his flesh (wife) more than GOD.
A perfect man can sin when he entertains the longings of his flesh in his mind. Then once the spirit of sin conceives its thoughts in his mind it brings forth sin.
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In His obedience to His Father's law He was without sin (transgression), but the humanity Christ as God assumed at the incarnation had "indwelling sin" (iniquity) within it.
Keep in mind iniquity is a condition, not an act or thought. Because of the fall, mankind is spiritually bent so that driving force of his nature is based on the love of self.
What possible iniquity could he have had? Unregenerate mans' debased condition results from his spirit being dead. Without the spirit to guide him in GOD's will, he will sin, and the corruption grows. Christ did not have this limitation.
Where does it stated Adam was tempted?
Here's temptation: 21For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness: 23all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man. Mark 7:21-22
Had? You mean assumed? It was not his iniquity (bent, or sinful nature), but ours. So you must never say that Christ HAD as sinful nature. He assumed us in order to redeem us from under law.
Christ came to save fallen men, indwelt with iniquity, not unfallen men who were free from indwelling sin.
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shotgunner
Guest
Yes, I agree! I think I was trying to stress the point that he only took that sin upon himself on the cross. The scripture saying that he came in the likeness of sinful flesh only meaning he was in the form of a man.
How did that happen? Christ assumed us at the incarnation when Christ's Deity was united to our fallen humanity from the womb of Mary.
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shotgunner
Guest
I would disagree with that. Christ was not born of sinful men but from the Word becoming flesh. He had no "indwelling sin". He only took upon himself sin on our behalf on the cross.
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shotgunner
Guest
Not at all. It would have been as you say if Christ had been born of the flesh as all other men. Christ however was born of the incorruptible seed of God's word become flesh. Born of a virgin whom received the Word of God into her womb.
Where Adam fell in transgression, the last Adam (Christ) lived a perfect life in obedience to His Father's law. But because Christ assumed our humanity polluted with iniquity (our bent) that life as the Son of man had to die eternally. Sunday morning Christ's Deity was raised with a glorified, sinless humanity!
That's why Paul says, "we have known Christ according to the flesh (sarx), yet now we know Him in this way no longer". (2 Cor 5:16)
Why? The Adamic life that Christ assumed died eternally on the cross. That's the curse of the law (i.e., the 2nd death). At the resurrection Christ's Deity (which never died) was united with a glorified, sinless humanity. It is this humanity we receive at the 2nd coming.
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Where's your scripture evidence?
Are you stating that Mary's womb was preserved from the fall? If so, that's the heresy of the immaculate conception, which is anti-gospel.
As I said, our sin nature wasn't His by divine right. He assumed us in our fallen condition in order to legally save us from under the law. The law of God had to be answered. Your corporate humanity had to meet two conditions:
1] Your corporate life had to be made obedient to God's law
2] But because your corporate life was polluted by the fall it had to die.
Both of these demands were answered in the doing & dying of Christ as the Son of God and the Son of Man.
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shotgunner
Guest
I did not say that Mary was preserved from sin. John chapter one, "The word became flesh and dwelt among us." 1 Peter tells us that we are born of the incorruptible seed of the word of God. That Word that Mary received into her was delivered by the angel that carried God's Word to her. When Mary said, "Be it unto me as you have spoken", she received the incorruptible seed of the word into her.
That Word became flesh, but in the likeness , or image of, sinful flesh, not clothed in sinful flesh. If Jesus had sinful flesh then he had sin in the flesh, and the price he paid in flesh would have been for his own sinful flesh. Jesus had no sin at all except for that which he took for us upon that cross of our redemption.