He that turns his ear from hearing the law...

[Grace777x70]

You are Scriptually wrong:

John 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Matthew 19:17
Parallel Verses
New International Version
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

New Living Translation
"Why ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. But to answer your question--if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments."

English Standard Version
And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”


John 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."



Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


SEED is word #G4690 spermaStrong's Concordance
sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed
Original Word: sp??µa, at??, t?
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Short Definition: seed, offspring
Definition: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.


Revelation 14:12
Parallel Verses
New International Version
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

New Living Translation
This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.

English Standard Version
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Thank God we are told in the New Covenant what those commandments are for the believer in Christ.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


Why don't we promote Christ instead of the law so that Christians can grow up in Christ?

We know that Rev. 14:12 is NOT talking about the law of Moses because no one keeps the law as they are supposed to in the Old Covenant. We cannot take bits and pieces of the Old Covenant and slice it up to make it seem "do-able".

Going back to live by the law of Moses for life and living is deserting Christ for another gospel and it is a perversion of the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

These Judaizers were promoting the law of Moses " after the Gentiles came to believe in Christ alone " - in this case the Judaizers were promoting - circumcision as outlined in the Law of Moses.

There is no difference today either. We have modern day Judaizers trying to get Christians to go back to the law of Moses for life and living. It's a perversion of the real gospel

 

[Grace777x70]

Matthew 19:17
Parallel Verses
New International Version
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

New Living Translation
"Why ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. But to answer your question--if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments."

English Standard Version
And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”


.

For some strange reason - "law-keepers" miss the words of Jesus in that He was giving people the Law...The Law is not the true answer because only Jesus could fulfill the Law. The real answer for salvation is to believe in Christ alone. John 3:16.

Jesus gave people the Law in order to show their need for a Savior.

The greatest commandment in the Law is below:

Matthew 22:36-40 (NASB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

[SUP]37 [/SUP] And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

[SUP]38 [/SUP] "This is the great and foremost commandment.

[SUP]39 [/SUP] "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

[SUP]40 [/SUP] "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

No one can do these commandments - only Jesus who has fulfilled the Law has done these. Because we are in Christ - the fulfillment of the Law is done in us because of Christ's obedience.

Jesus has loved the Lord His God with all His heart, soul and mind and He has loved His neighbor as Himself.

God, after He had spoken to us in many ways and potions through the law and the prophets has in these last days spoken to us in His Son. We are to believe in His Son that has fulfilled the Law. ( Hebrews 1:1-3 )

Christians are not under the Law any more as we now live by: Christ Himself - NOT the Law of Moses. Rom. 6:14

1) the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus,

2) the law of love,

3)the law of faith ( the Law of Moses is NOT of faith )

4) the law of liberty in Christ Jesus

5) the law of Christ - Himself

Because we are in Christ - we fulfill the whole law by depending on what Christ has already done for us in His finished work. We live by the life of Christ alone now and not by any commandments of the Law.

We only have 2 commandments under grace now that the Father has declared in the New Covenant.

John tells us exactly what they are and His commandments are not burdensome as he talks about in 1 John 5:3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

We are in a New Covenant now and the Old Covenant with it's commandments have been made obsolete because we live by a better covenant now which is us in Christ Himself.

 

[LaurenTM]

​

Since there is a continuation of the error of law + Christ, here is a very simple explanation that anyone can understand. Following the law, seems to have the same result with Gentiles as it had with Israelites. Seems those who claim to follow the law, cling to the law, do not accept Christ as their Messiah and look to their own efforts.

Now of course they will tell you they do accept Christ, but a perusal of the law threads will indicate the opposite because they are always adding to Christ's finished work and claiming everyone else must do the same.

They handle the scriptures like an awkward puzzle and constantly attempt to make the Bible fit what they think it says, are predisposed to believing and enjoy spreading error like a virus of dubious origin and deadly potency and are quick to condemn those who point out their error with cries of 'sinner!'

Failing to convert others to their 'new' way of life, they accuse Christians of living in Babylon and say God does not hear their prayers because they do not use Hebrew names.



Question: "What is the purpose of the Mosaic Law?"

Answer: The Mosaic Law was given specifically to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19; Leviticus 26:46; Romans 9:4). It was made up of three parts: the Ten Commandments, the ordinances, and the worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals (Exodus 20—40; Leviticus 1—7; 23). The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to accomplish the following:

(1) Reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).

(2) Set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all the other nations (Exodus 19:5).

(3) Rev
eal the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19). Although the Law was good and holy (Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel. “No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20; cf. Acts 13:38–39).

(4) Provide forgiveness through the sacrifice/offerings (Leviticus 1—7) for the people who had faith in the Lord in the nation of Israel.

(5) Provide a way of worship for the community of faith through the yearly feasts (Leviticus 23).

(6) Provide God’s direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation (Exodus 21—23; Deuteronomy 6:4–19; Psalm 119:97–104).

(7) Cause people, after Christ came, to see that they couldn’t keep the Law but needed to accept Christ as personal Savior, for He had fulfilled the Law in His life and paid the penalty for our breaking it in His death, burial, and bodily resurrection (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). The believer in Christ has the very righteousness of the Law fulfilled in him as he obeys the Holy Spirit who lives within him (Romans 8:4).

The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

SOURCE

 

[LaurenTM]

My thoughts are this:

4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. (from Gal. 4)

​

In Christ, we are no longer servants of the Law, but sons and co-heirs with Christ:

6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir. (from Gal. 4)

​

That passage in Proverbs was written to those born under the Law.

That's not those in Christ.

Here's the position of those who are in Christ to the Law:

• Those in Christ are dead to the Law, having no relationship with the Law whatsoever (see Romans 7)

The implication of the OP is that if you, as a believer in Christ, do not hear and obey the Law given to Israel at Sinai, God won't listen to your prayers. Even worse, your prayers are an ABOMINATION to God!!!

Yet in the New Covenant we see this:

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (from Heb. 4)​

Time to start accurately handling the word of truth, Disciplemike.

​-JGIG

It seems to me that these law keepers are basically suffering from the same deception as the people they wish to emulate.

I would suggest that besides putting themselves under the curse of the law...death...they have, it seems, become as blind as the ones to whom the law was given!

It is hard to plum the depths of the deception of thinking Jesus died so that a better ability to keep the law could be given by the grace of God.

They have made the grace of God of no effect because they simply do not accept it!

The retort is always 'oh yes...I have accepted Jesus...BUT

if there is any sort of but, there is no acceptance

it is like saying 'yes, I believe in God, but I don't believe the stories in the Bible; that is all superstition and fiction.

(yes...I actually know someone like that)

 

[pottersclay]

Let's look at our point from a different perspective shall we.
Noah was saved by grace. Placed into the ark (Jesus). The ark was pitched inside and out. Blood. That word pitched is latter translated atonement. The ark had one door. Again Jesus stands at the door. The Lord shut them in and was with them. Now where is the law in all of that?
Now I know what you are going to say is Noah knew the clean and unclean animals so he must of known the law Even before moses. Then you better ask Peter about his rooftop vision. The reason you had little trail of bread crumbs before Moses was to show you it was the same God imo. The God of Israel. To make the connection. I will make you a holy and peculiar people.

 

[pottersclay]

It seems to me that these law keepers are basically suffering from the same deception as the people they wish to emulate.

I would suggest that besides putting themselves under the curse of the law...death...they have, it seems, become as blind as the ones to whom the law was given!

It is hard to plum the depths of the deception of thinking Jesus died so that a better ability to keep the law could be given by the grace of God.

They have made the grace of God of no effect because they simply do not accept it!

The retort is always 'oh yes...I have accepted Jesus...BUT

if there is any sort of but, there is no acceptance

it is like saying 'yes, I believe in God, but I don't believe the stories in the Bible; that is all superstition and fiction.

(yes...I actually know someone like that)

Spot on sister...and this is why I posted what is God's desire which no one answered. So I will answer..that all repent and come to the saving knowledge ​of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I have been reading Psalm 119 and David was in love with God's law, not for his salvation but because he knew that it is important to God.

These arguments are draining me and I must say I have a numb feeling.

Sad indeed that people can fight like this about God's word.......

 

[LaurenTM]

I have been reading Psalm 119 and David was in love with God's law, not for his salvation but because he knew that it is important to God.

These arguments are draining me and I must say I have a numb feeling.

Sad indeed that people can fight like this about God's word.......

first, it is not believed that David wrote the 119th Psalm, but let that go for now

there is nothing wrong with any of God's word to us...it is the MISAPPLICATION of that word that is being discussed

and one more thing, Psalm 119 is about far more than the law. FAR more

do you also believe that we need to ADD to Christ's work?

see, there is an untenable difference in saying you love the law and have to keep it and saying you know the law is holy because God is holy but you know you CANNOT keep it...for if you fall short of even the smallest part of it...in thought or deed...you have broken all of it

that, cannot be resolved by lawkeepers...so they ignore it instead

 

[Yonah]

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

I post this by way of reminder, I too am guilty of this , I think it might be better to lift up each other today, what say you?

 

[heavenly_bound]

According to Gal 3. the law leads us to Christ, So yes, it can lead someone to christ.. (I never said it could save you, just take you to the one who can save you)

what verse in Gal 3? and secondly the law cannot in any way lead some to Christ. the law breaths condemnation, and fear. if you use the law to lead someone to Christ, that person will accept Christ out of fear of punishment or hell fire and not out of seeing the wondrous work of the savior !! That is why we have so many false conversions in the church today. They serve God not out of love but fear due to what they heard when the so called gospel was preached to them!! They see God as the vengeful God who punishes at the slightest offence!

Brief, the law doesn't portray our Heavenly Father as love; rather it portrays Him as a very strick and wicked master, who treats you base on your performances!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what verse in Gal 3? and secondly the law cannot in any way lead some to Christ. the law breaths condemnation, and fear. if you use the law to lead someone to Christ, that person will accept Christ out of fear of punishment or hell fire and not out of seeing the wondrous work of the savior !! That is why we have so many false conversions in the church today. They serve God not out of love but fear due to what they heard when the so called gospel was preached to them!! They see God as the vengeful God who punishes at the slightest offence!

Brief, the law doesn't portray our Heavenly Father as love; rather it portrays Him as a very strick and wicked master, who treats you base on your performances!!

Gal 3: 19-25 -
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


the purpose of the law is to prove to us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This should lead is to Christ, Because we realize, there is no other way, by which we have to be saved.

Those who teach law have yet to be trained by the law. Because they do not yet realize. the law does not save us, or make us righteous in Gods sight, It condemns us..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In Psalms, I believe most of the time, when the word "law" is used, It is used in the sense of Gods word Not mosaic law.

It would be the same today as if we said we love Gods word, We love his scripture. His letter written to us..

 

[Yonah]

In Psalms, I believe most of the time, when the word "law" is used, It is used in the sense of Gods word Not mosaic law.

It would be the same today as if we said we love Gods word, We love his scripture. His letter written to us..

in the KJV the word law used in the psalms is the Hebrew word Torah, it actually means teaching and instruction, the word law was always a bad and incomplete translation....

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus is the real word of God revealed to us. Put Jesus instead of any word we see in the OT that talks about "law" or "word" or "statues"....then we can interpret the scripture in light of the finished work of Christ for us in the New Covenant.

If we stay in Old Covenant mode then we will not be able to interpret the scriptures accurately and we will have a "law mentality" which will distort the work of our Lord Jesus Christ. We will be replacing Christ's work for "law-keeping" - the keeping/observing of the law of Moses.

Judaizers are those that attempt to get Gentiles to live according to the law of Moses after they come to Christ. It is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ. Paul didn't stand for this for even one hour so that the truth of the gospel might remain - others too will stand up and speak against this distortion of the gospel of Christ too. Gal 2:3-5; Gal 1:6

Christians are dead to the law, not under the law, been released from the law...how much more plainer can it be?

All of God's word is "for" us to learn from but not all of it is "to" us now because of Christ.

If we really want to lift people in Christ up - speak the truth about the gospel of Christ for in "it" is the power of God for salvation. Rom. 1:16

- and in "it" ( the gospel ) the righteousness of God is revealed. And in "it" - the righteous shall live by faith to faith in Christ alone.

His life in us will lead us now that we have been released from the law of Moses. - now that we are dead to the law - and now that we are not under the law anymore.

There can be no compromise when it comes to the gospel of Christ. We can agree to disagree about the timing of the rapture - the end times scenarios, etc. - but when it comes to the gospel of the grace of Christ, there can be no compromise.

Christ Himself is our very life now and replacing Him for the law of Moses is an anti-Christ religion that has the "appearance" of good but it denies the power of God to real transformation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in the KJV the word law used in the psalms is the Hebrew word Torah, it actually means teaching and instruction, the word law was always a bad and incomplete translation....

Yes,, The bible I hold in my hand (be it KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV etc etc. Would be called the "torah" in OT times.

 

[oldethennew]

in the KJV the word law used in the psalms is the Hebrew word Torah, it actually means teaching and instruction, the word law was always a bad and incomplete translation.QUOTE
_____________________________________________________________________

absolutely, Yonah,

we pray for our ears to be opened-eyes to see-and hearts to be teachable...

 

[ladylynn]

either you choose to Follow the Messiah of the narrow path or you choose to follow the one of the wide path your choice , and misapplying scripture based on an understanding derived from mans interpretation of what Paul's writings actually say...will never serve to convince me. you never cease to insist that just because one chooses to obey the Savior means they trying to establish their own righteousness from the law... go and learn what the text means in its context and cease from your false and unlearned accusations please.

The truth that continues to be shared on these threads is that righteousness is a gift found only in Christ and is not something we can earn and do for ourselves apart from Christ even after salvation.

When a person seeks to establish his or her own righteousness (even after salvation) by the good things he or she observes in the law and or their own ideas of what "good" means, they are really only walking in their own righteousness.

Psalm 23 says
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack. Notice...the Lord does the Shepherding to feed...guide and shield us.... we don't do this for ourselves, our Good Shepherd does this.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters. Notice... it is the Good Shepherd who makes me lie down in fresh tender green pastures and it is HE who leads us beside still and restful waters. He does the leading and the giving. We do the following.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with
Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake. Notice.... it is the Good Shepherd who refreshes and restores...He leads us in paths of righteousness He has given ; NOT for our earning it but FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE. It's always for Him.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me. Notice..., when we walk through deep sunless valleys where there are shadows of death., we do not fear or dread evil because; the Good Shepherd is with us and goes before us with His rod to protect and His staff to guide. They comfort us. Again., it is He who is the Provider and Giver at all times. We can't provide for ourselves. Without Him we can do nothing.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over. Notice...it's the Good Shepherd who does the preparing of a table before us in the presence of our enemies (enemies are here on earth) It's the Good Shepherd who does the anointing of our heads with oil (HolySpirit) and it's Him again who causes our cup to run over. Rivers of living water given by Jesus by giving us the Comforter. Again., these things are all provisions coming from Jesus who gave us the gift of His righteousness.

[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.
Notice....it's the Good Shepherd's goodness mercy and unfailing love that follows us all the days of our lives (right now and into all eternity) When we are here and when we go to the house of the Lord and are in His presence that will be our dwelling place. It's Him., not us who does the doing and the giving. We follow His example. We walk in HIS righteousness.

We are not the focus of this situation, Jesus is always the Giver and the Provider. We learn by His example and we follow. That is what us sheep can do realllly well. We can follow and imitate, we can't walk it alone in our own merit and goodness and law keeping. The law is not the standard anymore. Jesus is our standard and we follow HIM. This is the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. This is what is called "obedience of faith"

This is not misapplying Scripture but rightly applying what the Spirit teaches. Following Christ is obeying Him. Walking in His righteousness is following Christ., not walking in our own righteousness. This is not false or unlearned accusations but this is true righteousness found in Christ not ourselves.

 

[Yonah]

theres the accusation again.... please lady lynn do explain where anyone on this thread is trying to establish their own righteousness apart from the work our Savor did on the cross, ive seen this accusation based on what they THINK is being said or implied, and its siply not true.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

theres the accusation again.... please lady lynn do explain where anyone on this thread is trying to establish their own righteousness apart from the work our Savor did on the cross, ive seen this accusation based on what they THINK is being said or implied, and its siply not true.

The OP has been doing this since he got here, Thats why he gets so much flak. Every thread he posts it seems to try to force mosaic law down people throats..

Just as you get sick of what you deem to be an impropriety, We also get sick of people trying to replace the grace of God with the law of moses.

 

[Yonah]

The OP has been doing this since he got here, Thats why he gets so much flak. Every thread he posts it seems to try to force mosaic law down people throats..

Just as you get sick of what you deem to be an impropriety, We also get sick of people trying to replace the grace of God with the law of moses.

forcing mosaic law down peoples throats huh? wow, so somehow he holds you hostage and makes you read these threads, that's amazing please do tell, how is this accomplished