If you don't believe in 3 distinct Persons (yet one God) how would you not say that the Father is the Son, the Son is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Father (modalism) etc.?
So you think that when the Son prays to the Father as in John 17, He is actually talking to Himself?
God's purpose is belief in Jesus of Nazareth as the Way (not the law), the Truth (by faith) and the Life (not by law keeping).
The issue is not people, the issue is belief of truth.
There is no purer form of worship of God than the new covenant ordinances in which we participate in the benefits of the realities themselves, and not in their weak and useless (Heb 7:18) shadows
Elitism and arrogance are fruits of Law-keeping doctrine, whether it be in the HRM, WWCG, or any other Law-keeping sect.
And I want to encourage folks of this very important thing:
You don't need to have the HRM or any other false belief system all figured out in order to recognize/refute them. From JGIG the blog:
As often happens on forums, questions come up to try to clarify the Law/Grace issue. The following is a post posed by one person trying to sort out if there are differences between those who are part of the modern ‘Hebrew Roots Movement’ and the Judaizers that Paul spoke about in his letter to the Galatians. Following is her inquiry and my response:
Originally Posted by LabbyLove –>From JGIG:
I’m trying really hard to understand this Hebrew Roots information that I get in bits and pieces. You know I struggle with the Sabbath and what to do with that law…
Anyway, if you follow HRM or are VERY familiar with its teachings, then would you please tell me what the DIFFERENCES are between people who follow some laws some as dietary, circumcism, sabbath, passover observances, etc., (which I think are HRM) and those that were named Judaizers in Paul’s day.
Did Judaizers believe that you had to follow the laws in order to be saved, or once you were saved by Jesus Christ that you had to follow the laws? Did they equate following the laws with gaining salvation, or were they okay with people becoming Christians, but felt they needed to follow Jewish laws to be in line with God’s will? What if they didn’t follow the laws, did they feel salvation would be lost?
It seems the Gentile Christians were told after the Council at Jerusalem that they only needed to follow the four rules set before them by the apostles, thus freeing them from following all of the mosaic law. Trying also to understand what Paul is saying in Galatians about all of this.
My impression is that HRM differs from the original Judaizers in that they don’t feel it’s necessary, but helpful or loving to follow some of the law? Do I have that right?
Hi LabbyLove,
Bank tellers, when trained to identify counterfeit money, are trained first to become thoroughly familiar with genuine money. They handle it, examine it, study it, becoming so familiar with it’s look and feel that when a counterfeit bill comes across their path, something will feel/seem ‘off’ enough to them that they will examine it further.
That’s how it was for me when the concepts/teachings in the Hebrew Roots Movement came across my path. The perspective was fascinating; the motives of its followers seemed to be pure. After all they were just doing what they were doing because they love and want to obey and please God, right? Yet something seemed a little ‘off’ to me, so I determined to learn more.
As a Christian I understood how the Feasts of God, Sabbaths and other observances in Mosaic Covenant Law pointed to Christ and for some to decide to celebrate them now in order to learn the beauty of how the Law points to Christ did not disturb me at all.
I have Jewish/Hebrew Christian friends who maintain their heritage and traditions of Feasts and Days and dietary observances. They see the beauty of God’s provision of the Law for Israel and take great joy in celebrating Jesus, the Fulfillment of what the Law pointed to. It is no longer Law to them now, however. Their lives revolve around the Reality in Christ, not around the shadows of the Law.
Then I started hearing things like,
“If you really love God, you will keep His Laws – all of them”,
“If you don’t keep God’s Law, you’ll be called least in the kingdom”,
“If you’re really saved, you’ll keep the Law”,
“Jesus is coming back for the Bride – if you don’t keep the Law you aren’t part of the Bride”
. . . and more. You may have heard similar things said in a more ’round-about way.
As I heard those things and heard more teaching from those who had chosen Torah observance, many Scriptures came to mind. The teachings that I was hearing were not matching up with what my heart had hidden deep within me – the Word. It is not the ‘teachings from pastors or church fathers’ or the ‘brainwashing of the modern church’ which cause me to disagree with the teachings I have discerned as false, it is the Word hidden in my heart! I’d see a teaching and the thought process behind it (which more often than not seemed reasonable on the surface), but it wouldn’t sit right in my heart. The words of Scripture would come to mind, I’d go look them up, and sure enough, error was revealed in whatever particular teaching by a plain reading of the Word.
It seems that you may be experiencing some of the same from what you say here:Judaizers, in one form or another, have been around since the infancy of the Body of Christ. They come in many forms . . . the sect that Paul addressed directly in the letter to the Galatians, those who have more concern about religious observance than about abiding in Christ, and more recently, those in the HRM streams of thought who preach adherence to Mosaic Covenant Law in addition to the simplicity of the Gospel.
It seems the Gentile Christians were told after the Council at Jerusalem that they only needed to follow the four rules set before them by the apostles, thus freeing them from following all of the mosaic law. Trying also to understand what Paul is saying in Galatians about all of this.
My impression is that HRM differs from the original Judaizers in that they don’t feel it’s necessary, but helpful or loving to follow some of the law? Do I have that right?
In short, and in principle, a Judaizer is anyone who adds to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To be saved or to stay saved, it’s Jesus + (insert pet theology here). While the term Judaizer definitely lends itself to the Law and traditions given to Israel, the spirit behind Judaizing takes many forms and its intent is to take the believer’s focus away from the complete work of Christ and abiding and resting in Him and to put the believer’s focus and efforts into what they must do in order to be pleasing to God and remain in His good graces.
So while the ‘mechanics’ of Judaizing or legalistic movements may be different from group to group and age to age, the underlying intent of the Enemy is the same: To take your focus off of Jesus and to turn your focus back to yourself (what do I have to do to please God, what do I have to do to receive status in the kingdom, what do I have to do to stay saved, what must I do to be a part of the Bride, etc.).
The focus becomes very much on the flesh, and very little on the Spirit.
As you read through the writings to the Body of Christ after Pentecost, you will see over and over how God shifts focus from the Law and the flesh to Jesus and the Spirit. It is not that Law ceases to be, it is that our relationship to Law changes. We die to the Law in Christ, and the Law becomes obsolete in Christ. The message is clear.
If someone has to start telling you that the Scriptures don’t really say what they clearly say and then they have to build linguistic or theological contraptions to make their point, then red flags should start going up.
Be careful, as you consume HRM information in bits and pieces, that you don’t become as the metaphorical ‘frog in the pot’. Bit by bit is how many become deceived; if given the whole picture up front, many would reject false belief systems outright. For some, other elements come into the picture, such as discontent with churchianity, woundedness, etc. Read HERE for the progression of how it goes for many who choose Torah pursuance.
Keep the Law to be saved?
Keep the Law to stay saved?
Keep the Law to prove you’re saved?
Keep the Law to be blessed?
Keep the Law to not be cursed?
You can only please God by keeping His Law as given to Moses?
The only way to know and to stay in the will of God is to keep the Law?
You’ll be the least in the kingdom if you don’t keep Mosaic Covenant Law?
Yep, you will find a number of or all of those beliefs and more in the HRM.
I know you asked for a simple list of differences, and I’m sorry I could not do that for you.
The key is actually simpler than a list.
You just need to stay in the Word and become well grounded about who you are in Christ. Even if you were to just go through the New Testament and read through, paying special attention to every time the text says, “In Christ”, “Through Christ”, “Because of Christ”, “In Him”, etc. and keep in mind the HRM teachings you have under your belt thus far, you might find some confusion clearing up and begin to see the difference in focus between what you’re seeing plainly written in the Bible and what you hear from HRM sources.
You may also begin to see why one of the tenets in the HRM is that Yeshua is the Living Torah. That is a key false teaching in the HRM designed to take your focus off of the Living Christ Who did the work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and the sending of His promised Holy Spirit and to put your focus on Torah instead. It is the attempt to replace the Living Christ with the written Law. Did Torah do all the things that Christ did? No! Then how can Yeshua be the Living Torah?
Torah is a partial revelation of God’s Word. Yeshua/Jesus is the FULL and LIVING expression of God Who bled and died and rose again to fulfill the promises of God.
I’m sorry this is so long. There were several points I thought important to make. It sounds like as you’re reading things like Acts 15 and Galatians for what they plainly say, you’re seeing some disconnects in what you’re learning from HRM sources. Those I know (and I know quite a few now) who have come out of the HRM, tell me that that’s exactly how it happened for them: When they just sat down with the Word and read what it says to the Body of Christ, it was clear to them that they truly were not under Law but under Grace. There are some testimonies from some former HRMers HERE, as well a more information about the HRM if you want to take a look.
When one’s focus remains on the finished work of Christ and who we are in Christ, so many things become so clear. May God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.
Blessings,
-JGIG
(Hebrew Roots Movement – Are They Judaizers?)
