Hell's Best Kept Secret Method method of evangelism and the Bible

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
#81
Because this is a public forum, and not a private chat.I wasn't joking, and I didn't say a word about "the Charismatic movement".There's nothing the least bit preposterous about what I actually said. Salvation is a gift (charisma), and therefore every Christian who has received this gift is "charismatic".Yes, the gifts are a part of that package, but whether or not one has the gift of healing, we should still be preaching healing (which you said you don't do) because Christ and the Apostles preached the same, and they are our examples.
So you believe that the extraordinary gifts, demonstrated in the early church age are still ongoing? Therefore, you are not a "Cessationist" in your theology. The extraordinary gifts, such as the ability to speak a language you do not know, working of miracles, receiving of new prophecies are no longer being done today by believers. These ended when the Holy Scriptures were complete.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#82
So you believe that the extraordinary gifts, demonstrated in the early church age are still ongoing? Therefore, you are not a "Cessationist" in your theology. The extraordinary gifts, such as the ability to speak a language you do not know, working of miracles, receiving of new prophecies are no longer being done today by believers. These ended when the Holy Scriptures were complete.
They're still being performed by believers today. It's only self-professed unbelievers like yourself who have seen a cessation of the same.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you. In just these couple of exchanges here, I've learned enough about your misguided theology already.

Have a great day.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
#83
They're still being performed by believers today. It's only self-professed unbelievers like yourself who have seen a cessation of the same.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you. In just these couple of exchanges here, I've learned enough about your misguided theology already.

Have a great day.
Sadly, I say with all due concern for you, that it is not my Theology that is misguided. If you are in the Charismatic Movement, come out from it.

Ask yourself a few questions about these gifts...

If they were are still ongoing, why do we not see them mentioned after the book of Acts and the letter to the Corinthian church?
If healing was still in full effect, by the power of men... Why didn't Paul heal himself or have one of the other Apostles heal him?
2Co 12:7 And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.
2Co 12:8 Concerning this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he hath said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Why didn't one of the Apostles heal Trophimus?
2Ti 4:20 Erastus remained at Corinth: but Trophimus I left at Miletus sick.

These Truths should concern you and your position. Be ye interested in the Truth of Scripture and not experiences.

Go in peace.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#84
This was written to Christians.
No. This was written to the world (even though addressed to the Roman Christians). And if you have failed to see the necessity of showing this to the world of sinners, then you need to sit down and take a close look at some of the preaching from the past. Here is a sample from Spurgeon: "...and above all, I beg you, if there be reason or sense in what I have said, bethink yourselves of what you are, and may the Blessed Spirit reveal to you your state! May he show you that you are dead, that you are lost, ruined. May he make you feel what a dreadful thing it would be to sink into hell! May he point you to heaven! May he take you as the angel did of old, and put his hand upon you, and say, "Flee! flee! flee! Look to the mountain; look not behind thee; stay not in all the plain."
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,603
804
113
#85
Agree.
The Ten Commandments present the problem (sin and consequence) and the Gospel presents the solution (receiving Christ's Atonement.)



I believe that the purpose of these miracles was to, once and for all, evidence His deity. It did, of course also display His loving nature as well. In the end, it is by Faith that the just shall live.



I think a good place to start might be with what Jesus did for us on the Cross. For me that really emphasizes the desperate and depraved state we must be in. For Jesus to come from Heaven to Earth to Cross! That should clue anybody in that something is really, really wrong and needs fixing in a big way. It also emphasizes his great love for all mankind.

Thanks for your post. God bless.
And if the Holy SPirit isn't there to CONVICT THE PERSON OF SIN, And of judgement, none of the "Theology" means SPIT.
 
Nov 6, 2022
52
52
18
#86
I do not mean to hijack this post, but I have tried multiple times to make a post and they never went through. I have a true issue and for some reason I am not allowed to ask it. I came here to seek biblical advice and am being shut out.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,254
6,618
113
62
#87
I do not mean to hijack this post, but I have tried multiple times to make a post and they never went through. I have a true issue and for some reason I am not allowed to ask it. I came here to seek biblical advice and am being shut out.
Are you saying you can't post threads?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#88
Back in the 1990's, I came across Ray Comfort's website on the relatively new world wide web. I corresponded with him a bit. He had a book "Hell's Best Kept Secret."

Nowaydays, he has quite a media ministry showing his street witnessing, and he works with former teen TV star Kirk Cameron. I appreciate their desire to share their faith on the street, and I am not opposed necessarily to how they do things.

There are some areas where I probably would not agree. I believe an evangelistic encounter where the individual is ready should ideally end with water baptism and the doctrine around it should be explained a bit. I have also heard Ray Comfort quote a verse about entering into the kingdom of heaven and conclude it has something to do with 'going to heaven.' The Biblical focus is on the resurrection. The Bible talks about a new earth, and the emphasis on 'going to heaven' when you die is loosely inferred from scripture and relies heavily on tradition.

I am not opposed to using the Ten Commandments to show people that they are sinners, and I have done a bit of that. I do not agree with those who seem to think this particular methodology is __the__ Gospel. I look at the way the Gospel was preached in Acts, I don't see the elaborate focus on convicting audiences of sin, not emphasized the same way Ray Comfort does. In Acts 2, Peter does charge his audience with crucifying the prince of life. I don't see the heavy emphasis on making the audience feel guilty about sin in Paul's evangelistic messages either. Paul does teach in his epistles that by the law comes the knowledge of sin. He lays out the case for all being sinners in Romans.

I am not against going into detail on any aspect of the Gospel, and it may be very appropriate for many listeners. But the idea that you have to really focus on convincing the audience of just how sinful they are, or use the 10-commandment method to present the Gospel is not something I agree with.

Also, the idea that Jesus' encounter with the rich young ruler was about exposing his pride in his heart and his trusting in his own righteousness, while it certainly aligns with certain streams of Protestant thought, doesn't seem to be an obvious interpretation of the passage that a first century reader would have held to. Using a template to argue for using the law to expose sin as a template for the 'way of the Master' seems a bit like exegesis.

I notice one of the ways of the Master in scripture was to heal and do miracles, then people believed. The Master also told a woman by a well in Samaria about her marital past. There are a lot of 'way of the Master' things that don't fall into this ten-commandment method.

I am not opposed to Ray Comfort, or using the ten commandments in evangelism. I don't think doing so is heretical But I have encountered people who think this is __the__ way to do things.

I do appreciate his pointing out some of the problems that evolved into evangelicalism where it came to the point where people equated repeating a prayer with 'getting saved', no matter whether there is repentance or faith or not. Another problem I haven't seen him emphasize which I think is bigger, is having people repeating prayers without preaching the Gospel first-- no explanation of Who God is, Who Jesus is, What Christ means, what sin is, no mention of Christ dying for their sins.... and if all that is mentioned, no mention of the resurrection. Then....repeat this prayer and you are saved.... and no water baptism. It doesn't seem to fit what I read in Acts or the epistles.

Also, the Biblical root of confession got stripped from the prayer. Originally, the 'repeat this prayer' thing in Billy Graham after-meeting evangelistic sessions was a means of getting people to confess that they were sinners, and their faith that Jesus is God's Son, the Christ, and that He died for our sins and God raised him from the dead. (I am not sure which points of the kergyma were emphasized.) But so often, the prayer is stripped of the Biblical doctrinal points of confession. The audience is told something like,

"Religion is bad. You need a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. If you believed what you have heard today, repeat this prayer.....(prayer without much kergyma content in it)....if you believed that, you are saved.
“I am not opposed to using the Ten Commandments to show people that they are sinners, and I have done a bit of that.”

that actually is what the law was designed for and it’s not the gospel , it’s what we need to know before the gospel impact us . In other words if I won’t accept I’m a sinner and I’m lost without a savior I’m never going to go to a savior

So the law is to do this in preparation for receiving the gospel

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law tells us what sin is nd it also if anyone will study it will make the person realize “ I’m a sinner too , I’m sentenced to death too because of my own sins “

just one example Adultery

Thou shalt not commit adultery ( that’s sin )

Anyone who commits adultery must be put to death by the people ( that’s the consequence of sin )

Until a person realizes that nvludes then also they won’t ever come to repent and believe the doctrine icy is for those humble and acknowledged sinners before him

The nature of repentance , requires one to be guilty first sin the law imputes sin upon the world of transgressors

And then the gospel comes remitting those same sins d taking away the consequence of death we already had coming because of sin

The law and gospel are contrary for contrary purposes but they work together in sequence to bring a sinner to the understandong that they are a sinner and are condemned and then after they acknolwedge that the New Testament calls us out of sin into righteousness

teo necassary parts of one designed plan of God to redeem man from sin and death

first we have to be told the truth that we also as good as we think we are have also sinned and fallen short and the consequence is death

a then we can start hearing repentance and faith and be redeemed and forgiven through repentance nd remission of sins which the gospel offers the exact opposite of imputing sin like the law


So the law makes us aware of our sin and it’s consequence


that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin “


But the gospel is the opposite the remedy the answer for that sinful and guilty world

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imputation and knowledge of sin v repentance and remission of sins

ot v nt Gods complete plan make the sinners who are destroying thier souls aware of what is happening and what it will lead to

then shown them himself in truth express his enduring love for them even though they don’t deserve it lawfully show them his love and mercy teach them his ways call them to glory
 

Ilive4Jesus

Active member
Apr 30, 2022
273
144
43
#90
Yes, they keep blocking a serious new age topic.
what do you mean "blocking?"
Are you trying to start a thread and not seeing it right away? Because all new threads go through site moderators before posting public, and don't usually show right away.
But if you have tried multiple times, and it's been a day or 2 and they don't post, then maybe you need to talk with the mods about why.
Maybe @Oncefallen can help you?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#94
And if the Holy SPirit isn't there to CONVICT THE PERSON OF SIN, And of judgement, none of the "Theology" means SPIT.
Agree.

Revelation 22:17
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

We must come while the window of opportunity is still open.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#95
No. This was written to the world (even though addressed to the Roman Christians). And if you have failed to see the necessity of showing this to the world of sinners, then you need to sit down and take a close look at some of the preaching from the past. Here is a sample from Spurgeon: "...and above all, I beg you, if there be reason or sense in what I have said, bethink yourselves of what you are, and may the Blessed Spirit reveal to you your state! May he show you that you are dead, that you are lost, ruined. May he make you feel what a dreadful thing it would be to sink into hell! May he point you to heaven! May he take you as the angel did of old, and put his hand upon you, and say, "Flee! flee! flee! Look to the mountain; look not behind thee; stay not in all the plain."
I have read many volumes of C.H.Spurgeon's sermons plus all his other books, I regarded him as my virtual pastor for many years and love him still .... though I am never a Calvinist.

I utterly reject Limited Atonement, nasty doctrine.

Spurgeon among Victorian age preachers was very mild, he was not a hell fire preacher, though he believed in eternal punishment as do I.

Revelation has moved on dear brother.

The way God's doctrines successfully move on is not by creating new doctrines or by watering down old doctrines but simply by going back to what the bible teaches. We must have BIBLE faith.

You can't show me one picture of Jesus dealing with people a even good Spurgeon dealt with people, I mean unbelievers.

Show me where He confronted the Magdalene with her awful sins, or any of the disciples, show me where He made them go through the process of repentance, confession that evangelicals insist upon. It is just not there, nor is it there in Pauls public ministry in Acts.

It IS there in Peter's ministry to the Jews who were under the law and in awful transgression of it.

All of Jesu's upbraiding to the disciples was for UNBELIEF ... with His enemies was a different matter.

Paul's letter was to Christian brethren dwelling at Rome, all your saying different does not alter that fact.
And when he talks about sin in the way he does it is mostly directed against the Jews who were insisting upon the law [in all his letters]

"Only tell me this" quoth he to the Galatians "did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?

are you so foolish? having begun with the Spirit are you now ending with the flesh?

Did you experience so many things in vain? if it really is in vain.

Does He who supply the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?"

verse 6
Thus Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accounted to him as righteousness so you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham .... God would justify the Gentiles by faith ....

Paul goes on to say how that the law was added because of sins to be our guardian or custodian or schoolteacher UNTIL...

Who was put under the law, who was put under the custody or guardianship? it was the Jews.

I told you I believe in repentance, FULL repentance, I BELIEVE in the putting away of sin altogether, once and for all

But that is what the gospel IS .... just preach it, tell people their sins are put away, God has sent His Son the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world ... there IS no sin, it's gone, it's all on the cross.

If people believe it they'll be saved, they won't do those things anymore, they'll be like the Magdalene, wet His feet with their tears, glad not to be a hate filled person anymore.

They'll be born again, they will receive new life, even the life of Christ.

But if they turn away and refuse they will be in darkness of death still.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#96
Why did you deflect from the point I was making?
Did or did you not put words in the mouth of the Savior He did not say? If YES, you need to repent of it. If NO, then give the chapter and verse, please.

No I do not have a truncated Gospel. While God has graciously healed me, through prayer, of several physical problems. I never lose sight that this was done because God's will towards me, was to grant my request on these occasions. His will could have been in the opposite direction; much like the Apostle Paul, who having gone three times before the Lord, did not find it the will of God, to relieve him of his thorn.

I do not "preach" healing because I am not Charismatic.
You talk about adding words and putting stuff in people's mouths

When did Jesus ever tell anyone "go thy way and be sick?"

Where does Paul ever say his thorn in the flesh was sickness?

... come ooon
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#97
You can't show me one picture of Jesus dealing with people a even good Spurgeon dealt with people, I mean unbelievers.
Actually Jesus preached on Hell more than any of the apostles. So let's take one passage of Scripture (Mark 9:42-48) and see what Jesus had to say:

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [GEHENNA] , into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell [GEHENNA] fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#98
Actually Jesus preached on Hell more than any of the apostles. So let's take one passage of Scripture (Mark 9:42-48) and see what Jesus had to say:

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [GEHENNA] , into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell [GEHENNA] fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
He's just telling it like it is ... not accusing anyone, not pointing His finger at the woman at the well

... to her He had water springing up unto eternal life .... she was so excited about it she ran and told everybody about it
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#99
So you believe that the extraordinary gifts, demonstrated in the early church age are still ongoing? Therefore, you are not a "Cessationist" in your theology. The extraordinary gifts, such as the ability to speak a language you do not know, working of miracles, receiving of new prophecies are no longer being done today by believers. These ended when the Holy Scriptures were complete.
it's the completed Holy Scriptures which exhort us to earnestly desire the gifts and to speak in tongues

... doesn't say anything about them ceasing
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
Show me where He confronted the Magdalene with her awful sins, or any of the disciples, show me where He made them go through the process of repentance, confession that evangelicals insist upon. It is just not there, nor is it there in Pauls public ministry in Acts.
I don't know what Bible you're reading.

The very first message that Jesus preached was that people needed to repent.

Mark 1

14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

When he sent out the twelve, they told people that they needed to repent.

Mark 6

12And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

When Jesus was commissioning the 70, he pronounced woe upon Chorazin and Bethsaida because they hadn't repented, and he told Capernaum that it would be thrust down to hell.

Luke 10

13Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. 15And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

When he gave his great commission, he instructed his disciples to preach repentance for the remission of sins among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Paul preached repentance everywhere he went as well, and he did so in obedience to the heavenly vision that Christ gave him.

Acts 26

19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

If I were you, then I'd take a second look at the cover of whatever book it is that you've been reading. My guess is that it doesn't say "Holy Bible" on the front of it.

Jesus and the apostles preached repentance, and all those who follow in their footsteps preach it too.