Here it comes the mark of the beast

[DP]

Not even the well known early scholars nor the early church leaders taught that, and to many scripture refute that as like the Word of God says he surrounds and invades Jerusalem.

St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315-386) Doctor of the Church
Catechetical Lectures
LECTURE XV.
ON THE CLAUSE, AND SHALL COME IN GLORY TO JUDGE THE QUICK AND THE DEAD; OF WHOSE KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END, DANIEL vii. 9--14.

12. But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is now drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after these an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, three he shall humble, and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself. At first indeed he will put on a show of mildness (as though he were a learned and discreet person), and of soberness and benevolence: and by the lying [108] signs and wonders of his magical deceit a having beguiled the Jews, as though he were the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all kinds of crimes of inhumanity and lawlessness, so as to outdo all unrighteous and ungodly men who have gone before him displaying against all men, but especially against us Christians, a spirit murderous and most cruel, merciless and crafty. And after perpetrating such things for three years and six months only, he shall be destroyed by the glorious second advent from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Saviour Jesus, the true Christ, who shall slay Antichrist with the breath of His mouth, and shall deliver him over to the fire of hell.
Source: CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture 15 (Cyril of Jerusalem)


Irenaeus considered he would come from the tribe of Dan, that being the reason Dan is excluded from Rev.7:

2. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, istruly the abomination of desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them.1 Thessalonians 5:3 And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fullness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein. Jeremiah 8:16This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved. (from Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 30)

2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter 25, section 2).


Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead — yet not of all, but as it is said: “The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.” Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven. (Diadache, Chapter 16, 1st or 2nd century A.D.)



​

 

[DP]

Thus the special aim of the coming false messiah to Jerusalem in the last days to sit in a new Jewish temple there, is to proclaim himself as Christ, and that is how he is coming to fool orthodox Jews, and any and all who believe on him in place of Christ Jesus.

I haven't found it yet, but one of the early Church fathers said that false one will build the temple (idea from Zecharaih, which is clear that our Lord Jesus Christ, The Messiah, is Who will build the temple in Jerusalem when He comes).

 

[Ahwatukee]

The orthodox Jews would never fall for a foreigner to worship in place of Messiah. That is who they are expecting, and is who they will be told has come.

Hi DP,

I believe that you are forgetting the fact that, this false Messiah is going to deceive the world by receiving a mortal wound and will survive it. Also, to further the deception, he will have a false prophet who will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on his behalf, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth. The reason that the inhabitants of the earth will worship that false Messiah, regardless of nationality, is because he will survive that mortal wound and because of the miraculous signs being performed by the false prophet on his behalf and the reason that they will be deceived by those signs is because their names were not written in the book of life before the world began and because of that they will not be able to come to God.

 

[DP]

Hi DP,

I believe that you are forgetting the fact that, this false Messiah is going to deceive the world by receiving a mortal wound and will survive it. Also, to further the deception, he will have a false prophet who will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on his behalf, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth. The reason that the inhabitants of the earth will worship that false Messiah, regardless of nationality, is because he will survive that mortal wound and because of the miraculous signs being performed by the false prophet on his behalf and the reason that they will be deceived by those signs is because their names were not written in the book of life before the world began and because of that they will not be able to come to God.

Brother, I suggest you look back at Rev.13 about that deadly wound very closely. It's not upon the "another beast" which will be the coming false messiah. That deadly wound is upon one of the seven heads of the first beast, i.e., the kingdom beast.

I know we've discussed before who those 2 separate beasts of Rev.13 represent; it's very important to recognize their being two separate types of beasts.

Rev 13:11-12
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 Andhe exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worshipthe first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
KJV

2nd beast in green
1st beast in blue

 

[DP]

Hi DP,

.... Also, to further the deception, he will have a false prophet who will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on his behalf, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth. The reason that the inhabitants of the earth will worship that false Messiah, regardless of nationality, is because he will survive that mortal wound and because of the miraculous signs being performed by the false prophet on his behalf and the reason that they will be deceived by those signs is because their names were not written in the book of life before the world began and because of that they will not be able to come to God.

I disagree that that "false prophet" will be anyone other than a played role of the "dragon" himself of Rev.13. Rev.13 has no mention of the "false prophet." It's the 2nd beast, the "another beast" in Rev.13 that works those miracles, signs and wonders to deceive. We've already discussed that.

Indeed, the majority of the world will fall to that "strong delusion" of that 2nd beast working great signs and wonders, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, to deceive. But to deceive the world into believing he is what???

And that's also correct that all those whose names which are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will worship that "dragon" per Rev.13:4-8, as written. By that, it would seem the fate of peoples on earth for the end is already sealed.

A major revealing is shown by that though, which is that Christ's Church is still on earth for that event, because only His elect saints will make up His Church when He comes to gather it on the "day of the Lord". Any believer that bows to this coming false messiah in place of our Lord Jesus will not be gathered to Him (i.e., the ones He will shut the door upon, and say, "I never knew thee").

This event is getting ready to occur upon this world very soon, so it's time for those in Christ Jesus to decide who they're going to listen to and heed about those last days events.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Brother, I suggest you look back at Rev.13 about that deadly wound very closely. It's not upon the "another beast" which will be the coming false messiah. That deadly wound is upon one of the seven heads of the first beast, i.e., the kingdom beast.

Here are the verses:

"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction."

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. Theyare also seven kings.

"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

The seven heads of the beast represents seven kings, five have fallen, one is and the other has not yet come. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an Eighth king (one of the heads) and is counted with the seven kings. This future eighth king is the beast who comes up out of the Abyss, which takes place at the fifth trumpet, who is referred to as that angel of the Abyss whose name is Abaddon/Apollyon, which means destroyer. When he is let out of the Abyss he will take control of the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, and will kill the two witnesses and proclaim himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped.

 

[DP]

Here are the verses:

"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed."

That above passage if from Rev.13. Here's the KJV version:

Rev 13:2-3
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

That underlined part is about the 1st beast that came up out of the "sea". Please make sure you read that "sea" of Rev.13:1. It is different than coming up out of the "earth".

In that underlined part, notice those references to the animal symbols of Daniel 7. What did those symbols represent in the Book of Daniel? The final beast mentioned in Dan.7 shows it has "ten horns". So there is the direct parallel to the type of beast mentioned in Rev.13:1. The "ten horns" we are told are "ten kings" (as we are told also in Rev.17). So right off the bat, we know that 1st beast of Rev.13:1 cannot be a single entity like the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 is. Each one of those of Dan.7 symbols, the lion, the leopard, and bear, represented separate beast kingdoms that manifested at different times.

Those "seven heads" are given about that 1st beast that rises out of the "sea", and goes with that subject of the "ten horns" of Daniel 7 and Rev.17. That is showing us about the final beast 'kingdom' that will manifest on this earth for the last days. It is not about the 2nd beast person of Rev.13:11 forward.

And in Rev.17, we are told the "seven heads" are "seven mountains"! But only one of those seven heads suffered the deadly wound that was healed.

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction."

That verse immediately above, comes from Rev.17, NOT Rev.13 which is where is described the deadly wound upon the 1st beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns.

This verse is about the 2nd beast, the "another beast" person of Rev.13:11 forward that comes up out of the 'EARTH', not the "sea":

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Which "beast" is that? Well, per Rev.13 which beast comes up out of the earth???

Rev 13:11
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
KJV

Now what is that "bottomless pit" that beast coming out of symbolizes? The "bottomless pit" is the abode of the "angel of the bottomless pit" per Rev.9, i.e., the one who has the titles of "Apollyon" (perdition) in the Greek, and "Abaddon" in the Hebrew, and he is the "king" over the locust army of that chapter.


Rev.17:8 shows us more. Remember the revealing back in Rev.13:4-8 about those whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will worship the "dragon". There in Rev.17:8 is that idea once again with, "... they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Thus that Rev.17:8 verse is NOT about the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 which is about the kingdom beast of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. Instead, Rev.17:8 is about the "king" of Rev.9:11 which is the "angel of the bottomless pit". That "king" is this "beast" of Rev.17:8-13, and it parallels the "little horn" that will come up among the ten horns of Dan.7.

That one is... Satan himself, the "dragon", and "king" over the locusts and that "angel of the bottomless pit" that will ascend up out of the earth to show himself in the last days in Jerusalem.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Rev 13:2-3
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

DP, the designation "Beast" is used to describe both that last day kingdom and the ruler of that kingdom. In the scripture above, it transitions from the kingdom to the actual ruler of that kingdom. The mention of Bear, Leopard and Lion are characteristics of the kingdom of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, meaning that that ten toed kingdom to come will have some of those characteristics. Even in the book of Daniel the designation is used interchangeably representing both the beast as a kingdom and as that king, the beast.

That one is... Satan himself, the "dragon", and "king" over the locusts and that "angel of the bottomless pit" that will ascend up out of the earth to show himself in the last days in Jerusalem.

Regarding the scripture above, you have opened mouth and inserted foot. Satan cannot be the angel of the Abyss and here is why:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf."

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

Regarding the above, when Christ returns to end the age, which is what Rev.19:11-21 is depicting, the beast and the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire. In close proximity to that, Satan is thrown into the Abyss and locked up for a thousand years. Therefore, it is obvious that the beast who comes up out of the Abyss and Satan are two individual entities, for they are going two different places. And I would remind you again, that the beast and false prophet are said to be thrown "Alive" into the lake of fire. The language here with the use of the word "Alive" would infer living beings and not a kingdom.

 

[DP]

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. Theyare also seven kings.

"The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

The seven heads of the beast represents seven kings, five have fallen, one is and the other has not yet come. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an Eighth king (one of the heads) and is counted with the seven kings. This future eighth king is the beast who comes up out of the Abyss, which takes place at the fifth trumpet, who is referred to as that angel of the Abyss whose name is Abaddon/Apollyon, which means destroyer. When he is let out of the Abyss he will take control of the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, and will kill the two witnesses and proclaim himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped.

That's incorrect.

The "seven heads" are shown existing along with the "ten horns" and "ten crowns" at the SAME time in Rev.13:1. A little further read down to Rev.17:12-13 reveals those "ten horns" are ten kings that will reign concurrently "one hour" with the beast (i.e., beast king).

Thus you can't have the "seven heads" being the seven kings of the next verse of Rev.17:10, which is a separate subject, because... the v.10 seven kings involve six kings that have already been past history.

Here is the subject flow:

Rev 17:9-11
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

That "woman" is to sit upon... those "seven heads" which are "seven mountains". Those are NOT kings.



10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The phrase "And there are seven kings:" is introducing a new subject, i.e., the beast kings of past history, the one that existed in John's day (6th one), and the 7th one still yet to come which will be at the end of this world.



11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

That "beast" is about the concept of a 'king', because that's still the subject here from v.10. So that "beast that was, and is not", "and goeth into perdition", is linked to the "beast" back in v.8 also, showing us once again the subject of the "king" of Rev.9 which is "the angel of the bottomless pit", i.e., Satan himself.

A revelation: that "beast" "that was, and is not, and yet is" from verse 8, is about Satan:

The "that was" phrase is about Satan's original rebellion of old against God, in coveting God's Throne and as King.

The "and is not" phrase is about this present world time after God ended Satan's rebellion of old, and confined him away from His Throne. (It was Satan's original job to guard God's Throne per Ezekiel 28, which is what the "anointed cherub that covereth" was about).

The phrase "and yet is" will be about Satan coming in the last days to try and usurp Christ's Throne on earth in Jerusalem. That is when those whose name are not written will 'wonder' at that 'beast' when they behold him.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The "seven heads" are shown existing along with the "ten horns" and "ten crowns"

Impossible!

The seven heads also represent seven kings:

Five have fallen = Five of the seven kings had already come and gone at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel. These seven are a succession of kings that rule during and around John's time frame, hence the words, "five have fallen."

One is = King number six was ruling at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel

The other has not yet come: King number six was ruling and therefore king number seven had not yet come, which was future to John and is in the past to us. The very fact that John says that king number six was currently ruling tells you that they were a succession of kings.

Ten Horns = Ten who will become kings along with the beast, which means that they will rule concurrently and will give their power and authority to the beast. They are ten future kings who will rule with the beast, who is that eighth king who belonged to the lineage of the pervious seven.



*

 

[Ahwatukee]

The "and is not" phrase is about this present world time after God ended Satan's rebellion of old, and confined him away from His Throne. (It was Satan's original job to guard God's Throne per Ezekiel 28, which is what the "anointed cherub that covereth" was about).

The Beast who once was, now is not and yet will come:

Once was = Once was not in the Abyss, but was out in the world

Now is not = Now is not in the world, but is currently in the Abyss

And yet will come = Is currently in the Abyss and will come out of the Abyss

 

[DP]

DP, the designation "Beast" is used to describe both that last day kingdom and the ruler of that kingdom. In the scripture above, it transitions from the kingdom to the actual ruler of that kingdom. The mention of Bear, Leopard and Lion are characteristics of the kingdom of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, meaning that that ten toed kingdom to come will have some of those characteristics. Even in the book of Daniel the designation is used interchangeably representing both the beast as a kingdom and as that king, the beast.

Yes, I well know the "beast" term is used for both, a kingdom, and its beast king over it. The reason why your analogy does not work is because you're trying to put them both together in the same space when Revelation is specific when one or the other is being spoken of. In other words, how can you know when the kingdom beast is being talked about vs. the beast entity which is a person? You cannot the way you're doing it.

Yet the written Scripture of Revelation 13 does that separation whether we like it or not, both with mention of the "dragon" title, and... starting in Rev.13:11 when John saw "another beast", pointing to a person (the 7th beast king of Rev.17:8-13).

So am I to think you don't really know the difference when Scripture is talking about a kingdom vs. a king?

Furthermore, once we go through Revelation, we are shown just a little bit more information about the beast king, a 2nd beast that is a person. That means to go back in those Scriptures, like back to Rev.13:1 and pick up the subject properly once we're given more info of how they are separate objects.

So please, don't try to tell me confusion that "another beast" (2nd beast) is the same object as the 1st beast (kingdom), especially when Rev.13:12 is specifically showing us that difference:

Rev 13:12
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worshipthe first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
KJV

One of the "seven heads" of the 1st beast had that "deadly wound", not that 2nd beast.

Per the Rev.17:8-13 Scripture, you should have come to the Truth about that "beast" taught there being a king, specifically the 7th king that's still to come. That should have shown how the "seven heads" literally are "seven mountains" upon the earth like that Scripture literally states. This shows that 2nd beast, the "another beast" that speaks "as a dragon", is coming to heal that "deadly wound" that's upon one of the "seven mountains". So far, I believe that is pointing directly to Jerusalem as one of the seven mountains that is wounded and then healed when that "another beast" appears on earth to work miracles, and wonders.

Regarding the scripture above, you have opened mouth and inserted foot. Satan cannot be the angel of the Abyss and here is why:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf."

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

I'm sure you wish that I had put my foot in my mouth, but it just isn't so.

You should ALWAYS include the Book and Scripture numbers when you quote from God's Word.

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone
KJV

Like I've shown you before, that "beast" and "false prophet" are ROLES that the "dragon" (Satan) will play in the last days as the coming false messiah. Those two ROLES were destroyed by Jesus at His 2nd coming, which is what that verse timing is.

You are actually the one who has inserted your foot into your mouth, when you said:

"Satan cannot be the angel of the Abyss..."

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

How is it that you don't know that Satan wants to be GOD The King? How is it that you cannot understand that Satan is that "angel of the bottomless pit", i.e, for he is the ruler over it?!?!! That title "Apollyon" comes from Greek apollumi which is where the word 'perdition' originates. It's because Satan and his angels only have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". That concept is elementary to Christianity. How is it you don't understand that???

Are those men telling you that Satan is locked in His pit prison (bottomless pit) during the tribulation timing? I'll bet that's where your confusion is coming from. Answer me this then, the Rev.19:20 verse and into the Rev.20 chapter is for after... Christ Jesus' return, so if sound is already 'bound' today, then how can he be 'bound' again at Christ's second coming?!?

The particular loosing of Satan written in the Rev.20 chapter is for after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign, not prior to it. It sounds like you've been heeding men's doctrines of Amillenialism which has you confused on that timing.

Regarding the above, when Christ returns to end the age, which is what Rev.19:11-21 is depicting, the beast and the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire. In close proximity to that, Satan is thrown into the Abyss and locked up for a thousand years.

OK, so you do believe Satan is cast into the bottomless pit when our Lord Jesus returns. But do you not recognize Rev.20 shows us Satan is loosed one final time upon the nations after... that "thousand years" reign of Rev.20???

Therefore, it is obvious that the beast who comes up out of the Abyss and Satan are two individual entities, for they are going two different places. And I would remind you again, that the beast and false prophet are said to be thrown "Alive" into the lake of fire. The language here with the use of the word "Alive" would infer living beings and not a kingdom.

Now that really does not make sense. Don't you understand that when Jesus comes and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, that Satan was NOT IN that pit yet?

And since Satan is not shown in that bottomless pit on the day of Christ's 2nd coming, then where will he be???

On this earth, is the answer. And that's why Satan IS... that "beast" king of Rev.17:8 that ascends up out of the bottomless pit FOR THE TRIBULATION TIMING but later goes into perdition (after the "thousand years" per Rev.20:10). Or did you forget that Satan is finally cast into the "lake of fire" per Rev.20:10 also, but after... the "thousand years"?

That is why we are shown this also at the "two witnesses" timing in Jerusalem:

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV


Not only that, but in the Book of Daniel we are shown about the "vile person", and "little horn" king, that will come and speak blasphemies against God and those who dwell in Heaven, and will also make war upon the saints. Rev.13:4-7 shows us that very same thing done by the "dragon". And we know for sure the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself per Rev.12:9.


So tell me also, why is that "dragon" of Rev.16:13 that is mentioned along... with the beast and false prophet NOT cast into the "lake of fire" at the Rev.19:20 timing when Jesus comes? Where will that "dragon" be when Jesus comes?

 

[DP]

Impossible!

The seven heads also represent seven kings:

Five have fallen = Five of the seven kings had already come and gone at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel. These seven are a succession of kings that rule during and around John's time frame, hence the words, "five have fallen."

One is = King number six was ruling at the time that John was receiving that information from the angel

The other has not yet come: King number six was ruling and therefore king number seven had not yet come, which was future to John and is in the past to us. The very fact that John says that king number six was currently ruling tells you that they were a succession of kings.

Ten Horns = Ten who will become kings along with the beast, which means that they will rule concurrently and will give their power and authority to the beast. They are ten future kings who will rule with the beast, who is that eighth king who belonged to the lineage of the pervious seven.

*

No, the "seven heads" do NOT represent seven kings. The subject of the seven kings in the verse following that shows us 6 kings that have already past, and the seventh still yet to come, and then yet ANOTHER eighth king in the next verse! Thus the king subject there is about EIGHT KINGS, not seven.

I don't understand how you could miss this about the "seven heads" being "seven mountains" and not kings:

Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
KJV

Those "seven mountains" represent... territories upon the earth, not kings! This is elementary.

If someone mentions seven houses in one sentence, and the very next sentence mentions seven home owners, would you call those seven houses all home owners?? I think not. Nor should you call those "seven mountains" as seven kings, just because the subject changed to kings between verses.

Like I mentioned before, someone has you refusing to rightly divide the subject in Revelation (and in Daniel) between the concept of a beast kingdom (1st beast) and a beast king (2nd beast). The OT blueprint for that would be like the kingdom of Babylon in contrast to king Nebuchadnezzar, especially with Dan.4 where God literally reduced Neb to live with wild beasts of the field like an animal to humble him. The 'beast' term as a symbol goes all the way back to the OT where it was first used, so in Revelation we should be able to grasp this difference between a beast kingdom and its beast king over it.



Rev 13:1-3
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV


Did you not notice this beast example in the prior Rev.12 chapter?...

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV



Again, per Rev.12:9 we know the "dragon" is another one of Satan's titles. When did Satan as that "great red dragon" draw those third of stars (angels) of heaven down to the earth with him?

That Rev.12:3-4 beast is NOT the same one of Rev.13:1-2 for the end. That one there only had "seven crowns". The one in Rev.13:1 is to have "ten crowns".

This is because that one of Rev.12:3-4 was about the time of Satan's original rebellion of old against God, coveting God's Throne.

Notice that old beast also had "seven heads". And since we know per Rev.17 the "seven heads" ARE "seven mountains", then how does your seven kings theory fit that one?? Have you ever thought about that??

 

[DP]

The Beast who once was, now is not and yet will come:

Once was = Once was not in the Abyss, but was out in the world

Now is not = Now is not in the world, but is currently in the Abyss

And yet will come = Is currently in the Abyss and will come out of the Abyss

That won't work either, the reason being is that subject of 'was, and is not, and yet is' was given in relation to the king subject in the Rev.17:11 verse.

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Thus the 'was' is about his past rebellion as king.

The 'is not' is about God ending his reign of old, casting him down to the earth where he still is today working deception upon the nations.

The 'yet is' will be when he comes to Jerusalem to exalt himself in the temple as God, which means as King also.

 

[Blain]

I think this discussion should be moved to the bdf, we are having a debate about the beast and the antichrist in a conspiracy forum, I don't see this as a conspiracy:b

 

[crossnote]

Technology aside what about the actual number 666 ?

Revelation 13:18 KJV
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Remember, there is no indefinite article in Greek so it could read "it is the number of man".
The number of man is 6 and so 666 would be akin to a humanistic trinity. Perhaps...Socialism/Communism/Humanism.
Remember from Daniel "he exalts himself above any sort of god"

Daniel 11:36 KJV
[36] And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Haven't those three systems already wreaked much havoc...where man exalts himself as God, and it won't be long til Nietzsche's Superman will declare himself as God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Technology aside what about the actual number 666 ?

Revelation 13:18 KJV
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Remember, there is no indefinite article in Greek so it could read "it is the number of man".
The number of man is 6 and so 666 would be akin to a humanistic trinity. Perhaps...Socialism/Communism/Humanism.
Remember from Daniel "he exalts himself above any sort of god"

Daniel 11:36 KJV
[36] And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Haven't those three systems already wreaked much havoc...where man exalts himself as God, and it won't be long til Nietzsche's Superman will declare himself as God.

Hi crossnote,

Regarding the 666, I don't think that you can remove the technology from it, as I believe that, whatever or whoever else it may represent, it will have something to do with the world banking code as well.

 

[crossnote]

Hi crossnote,

Regarding the 666, I don't think that you can remove the technology from it, as I believe that, whatever or whoever else it may represent, it will have something to do with the world banking code as well.

Absolutely technology will be involved in it's propagation and delivery , I was thinking more in terms of the philosophical or man centered system behind the beast.

 

[thecreationtutor]

What about Marks of a Christian? Spend so much time on mark of the beast - what about Marks of a Christian?

 

[Blain]

What about Marks of a Christian? Spend so much time on mark of the beast - what about Marks of a Christian?

Well I don't know if this is what you mean but the closest thing I have ever known as a mark of a Christian is love but if you mean an actual mark I have only had one occasion where I was marked as a believer and that was when God and I were in a very deep and intimate moment and I told him that his heart was mine and as I said that I saw him brand the word mine on my forehead.