Holiday confusion

[MarcR]

As I said in another post a few seconds ago... "Potatoes, potahatos. Someone wrote in a book to TELL you of the history.... so someone TOLD you."

Originally Posted by Willie-T

Don't you find it a bit foolish to suddenly start seeing holidays as "pagan" just because someone told you this... when all your life (at least mine) I was celebrating Jesus' birthday at Christmas, and Jesus' resurrection at Easter, and fellowship and blessings among races at thanksgiving, and the birth of a God centered experiment in freedom on the 4th of July?

Someone told you there are goblins under the bed, and now you are doing what the Bible told you not to do, "fearing" and concerning yourself with making certain days a requirement.

Go celebrate any festival or feast you want, and be happy that other people also celebrate their Savior.

Don't you find it a bit foolish to suddenly start seeing holidays as "pagan" just because someone told you this

I began to see pagan elements in Christian worship when I walked into Walmart and saw chocolate rabbits and candy eggs.

I then began to look into why this was happening. My concern was not in response to what I was told; but rather in response to what I observed.

In any case it seems like you're more interested in argument than discussion. My apology if I'm mistaken.

 

[Biblelogic01]

In that verse; Earth comes from the Greek word "gē" which means: I arable land, II the ground, teh earth as a standing place, III main land oppose to sea or water, (I could go on there are a couple more definitions.

Heaven comes from the Greek word "ouranos" meaing: I the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it, II the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings.

So in this context He is talking about Earth as in the planet we live on and Heaven as in where G-D's throne is.

Btw saying "Those Jews" is a little anti-semetic. Fyi Jesus was a Jew and so were his disciples, and so was Paul. So saying "Those Jews" is a little rude.

 

[Willie-T]

In that verse; Earth comes from the Greek word "gē" which means: I arable land, II the ground, teh earth as a standing place, III main land oppose to sea or water, (I could go on there are a couple more definitions.

Heaven comes from the Greek word "ouranos" meaing: I the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it, II the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings.

So in this context He is talking about Earth as in the planet we live on and Heaven as in where G-D's throne is.

Btw saying "Those Jews" is a little anti-semetic. Fyi Jesus was a Jew and so were his disciples, and so was Paul. So saying "Those Jews" is a little rude.

Oh, grow up. I was referring to those very people He was talking to, Jews of that period in time. (And I didn't think you knew how they understood that expression.... you might consider researching it if you intend to keep playing your identity game.)

 

[Biblelogic01]

And yes I am Jewish by blood, my parents were embarassed about being Jewish for most of their life because of the way modern society portrays Jews. My parents did not tell me or my brothers about being Jewish until I was 20-21ish, which is when they started Torah observance. My family heritage goes back to the tribe of Benjamin.

 

[Biblelogic01]

But this is all off topic.

Still the topic would be the feast/pagan holidays in the culture.

I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating the birth of Christ or the resurrection, because there is nothing in the bible against it. But celebrating it in the manor of a pagan holiday is not the way it should be done.

Now if this is wrong and I find out then I wouldn't but I haven't found anything wrong on it.

 

[Willie-T]

And yes I am Jewish by blood, my parents were embarassed about being Jewish for most of their life because of the way modern society portrays Jews. My parents did not tell me or my brothers about being Jewish until I was 20-21ish, which is when they started Torah observance. My family heritage goes back to the tribe of Benjamin.

Then you have an advantage. Any Rabbi will be able to tell you, right off the top of his head, what "Heaven & Earth" represented to ancient Jews.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Also did you know the disciples kept the feasts? Pentecost is one of the feast the were observing, and teaching on. Pentecost is the day 1 G-D gave Moses the Torah, it's also the day He gave us the Holy Spirit (they co-exist with eachother in that). Why do you think there were so many people there when the Holy Spirit came down, it's because they were observing a commanded feast.

 

[ChristInUs]

Also did you know the disciples kept the feasts? Pentecost is one of the feast the were observing, and teaching on. Pentecost is the day 1 G-D gave Moses the Torah, it's also the day He gave us the Holy Spirit (they co-exist with eachother in that). Why do you think there were so many people there when the Holy Spirit came down, it's because they were observing a commanded feast.

You may not see it now but that is self righteousness. It is faith based in what you do and there for self righteousness and the same thing that got Adam expelled from the Garden.

 

[Biblelogic01]

You may not see it now but that is self righteousness. It is faith based in what you do and there for self righteousness and the same thing that got Adam expelled from the Garden.

How is that being self-righteous. I have not once told anyone I am better than the next person, I have said multiple times through this thread, the walk I'm on does not make me better than the next man, and I say it again. But someone has told me (not directly) stated that their way is better than the walk I'm on.

 

[Biblelogic01]

You may not see it now but that is self righteousness. It is faith based in what you do and there for self righteousness and the same thing that got Adam expelled from the Garden.

And what bible are you reading. Adam got expelled not for self-righteousness, but for eating the forbidden fruit. 0__o

 

[Willie-T]

And what bible are you reading. Adam got expelled not for self-righteousness, but for eating the forbidden fruit. 0__o

No, the Bible says Adam was expelled so that he would not have access to the Tree of Life, and live forever.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, the Bible says Adam was expelled so that he would not have access to the Tree of Life, and live forever.

Yes and why was that, because Adam and Eve was in bodies of flesh and blood.
As it was a picture of salvation through Christ under the new covenant on how flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of heaven. While in the fleshly bodies immortality was not theirs to be had......

 

[Biblelogic01]

No, the Bible says Adam was expelled so that he would not have access to the Tree of Life, and live forever.

Thank you for correcting me. (that is not sarcasm)

But even with that, Adamn was not expelled due to self-righteousness like the post I commented on said.
Self-righteousness doesn't even come into play when talking about the story of Adam is what I'm getting at.

 

[MarcR]

You may not see it now but that is self righteousness. It is faith based in what you do and there for self righteousness and the same thing that got Adam expelled from the Garden.

There is NOTHING self righteous in keeping the appointed times of Lev 23. There is nothing self righteous in suggesting that others might find much benefit in keeping them! There is both self-righteousness and legalism in imposing them on others or in teaching that they contribute anything to one's Salvation.

 

[maxwel]

Maxwel,

I think we might be using words differently.

I was born Jewish so I don't need adoption to be Jewish.

I understand physical Israel to mean those descended from Jacob (Israel) NOT the country West of Jordan, which I call national Israel.

My premise is taken from Ro chapter 11.

You might still disagree with me; but let's, at least, use words the same way.

Thank you for clarifying.

Do you think Gentile Christians are in the Physical bloodline of Jacob?

 

[MarcR]

Thank you for clarifying.

Do you think Gentile Christians are in the Physical bloodline of Jacob?

YES (by adoption) I believe that adopted children are fully included in their adopted families.

 

[MarcR]

There are only 365 days in a year. I think it is more than safe to assume that some pagan was worshiping something on the very same days the Jews chose for their festivals... and long before they chose that day.

Some pagan is probably worshiping something on your own birthday..... does that mean you are also doing pagan worship because you have your birthday party?

We do come very close to pure insanity with some of this stuff.

As I see it, the issue is NOT time; but NAME We do not need to associate our worship with Pagan names and practices; nor do we need to move our times of observance to coincide with Pagan activities.