the HS convicts the non-believer(the world) not the believer...a conviction is of wrongdoing and guilt....if you are being convicted it means you are in the wrong with God...and in danger of hell-fire...if you die in that state....
-
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the HS convicts the non-believer(the world) not the believer...a conviction is of wrongdoing and guilt....if you are being convicted it means you are in the wrong with God...and in danger of hell-fire...if you die in that state....
H
haz
Guest
Of sin, because they believe not in Jesus, John 16:9
And who is an example of they who are convicted of sin because they believe not on Jesus?
Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who ATTEMPT TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW; you have fallen from grace
Gal 2:18 confirms this
If I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I MAKE MYSELF a transgressor./SINNER
M
Mitspa
Guest
The bible is the authority...and I have already posted clear and evident scriptures that prove this doctrine is false... dont make me post them again...because I will
Show me ONE scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin and I will leave this forum. That should cause some to finally read there bible...hehe
M
Mitspa
Guest
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
M
Mitspa
Guest
Well your conscience should...and the Word of God should be judging the thoughts and intentions of your heart ...but its the Holy Spirit that tells us even when we blow it in the flesh that we are still righteous in Christ...that we are children of God. That tells us who we are and lifts us above the flesh and causes us to trust Gods grace.
M
Mitspa
Guest
I agree with this except the half-saved believer bit.
You can't be 'half' saved.
You either have New Life, you are either born of the Spirit, sealed in Him until the day of redemption or not.
It's like being pregnant.
You can't be half pregnant.
You either have life growing inside of you or you don't.
From a mom of seven,
-JGIG
I agree I was using it for those who don't seem to know if they are righteous in Christ or if they are a sinner in the world...I save they "think" they are half-saved.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Look brother...if folks would hear me out to the end I am always trying to explain a standard in the Spirit that is far above what we can do in our own strength...like the law...I teach the fulfillment in love...a higher standard than anyman could attain by looking to the written code...some cant see that grace and righteousness make us partakers of the divine nature of God...In grace and righteousness we begin to love and act like who we are called to be....The Holy Spirit teaches us who we are in Christ and that truth by the Spirit changes us from glory to glory....there is no other way....God Bless and thanks for the post
Understood.
You might really like this, and find it a useful resource to share with others suffering from the 'dirty worm syndrome'
. It's a relatively short video, about 30 minutes, from Andrew Farley:[video]http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/50610879[/video]
one man cannot serve two masters...one who believes and sin is now the servant of sin..if he does not confess and repent...how can he any longer be a believer? the HS convicts because a non believer of sin...
Hello, everyone!!!
I know I've already posted a rather LONG post under this thread, but I just can't help but write another follow-up post. I don't normally do this, but i just feel so compelled, and I know and trust that it is the Holy Spirit that encourages me to do this. I hope and pray that you'd take the time to read this as well, and may it shed some light, and lead to GODly wisdom and understanding, all by HIS Amazing Grace and love.
First off, brother Mitspa, and all those who refuse to believe that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin, I would like to make clear that, when I say the Holy Spirit convicts, I don't mean HE condemns believers. No.
Chapter 8 of the Book of Romans in the New Testament is actually one of my favorite chapters, because it has given me a treasure trove of comfort and encouragement, and stands as an awesome reminder of the depth of GOD's love and mercy for us that HE saved and redeemed, and now call HIS own. To me, It is a chapter that sings of victory and courage, and of the unfathomable love and grace of GOD for HIS Church, that is FOREVER (and yes, I believe in eternal security in our GOD's perfect grace and mercy and love).
Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So, if this is the case, then what does it mean when the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin?
As a True Believer or a True Christian, even though we have been washed or cleansed of sin in our initial repentance, when we surrendered before GOD and asked HIM to be the GOD of our lives (all by the action of HIS Holy Spirit), I trust that we all agree that we find ourselves still occasionally commit sin after that event. Some of us have even become the prodigal at some point in their spiritual walk with GOD (I know I have. I've been a prodigal for quite a long time, before our Holy LORD revived me and set me on fire for HIM once again. That's why Romans 8 is such a personal chapter for me, and the truths that it reveals to me whenever I read it overwhelms me still. I could never fathom the beauty of GOD's grace and mercy and love for us all!!!).
Because we still sin, it is essential for us to come before GOD and humble ourselves in prayer, to acknowledge our new sins before HIM, to ask for forgiveness, and for grace to enable us to repent of those sins.
1 John 1:5-10 King James Version (KJV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Some of you might just repeat those same verses that highlight the fact that GOD has forgiven HIS children of their sins, past present and future, and that HE has forgotten it all. I do agree with those verses. It is such a great display of HIS love and grace and mercy to us that HIS forgiveness of our sins is COMPLETE, and that HE doesn't keep a record of our wrongs.
Psalm 103:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
But....does this mean HE wants us to forget the gravity of sin, and how much it offends HIM??? Does it mean we could just brush off our sinful acts, and behave as if we haven't offended our GOD, who we claim to now love and worship and adore because we have come to realize just how inexplicable and pure and beautiful and powerful and everlasting HIS love and grace and mercy is for us???
The answer is a resounding NO!!!
For those who are parents, or even simply those who have been wronged by their loved ones, let me ask you this: when someone does something very wrong to you, that caused you to feel absolutely hurt and wounded, what do you do?
1) Act like it's nothing?
2) Fawn over that person, and say "You're the best, and I love you so much!!!"?
3) Threaten the person with hurtful words, and basically ground them down into dust?
4) Make it very clear that you are hurt by showing it in your countenance, or express it clearly with words, then distance yourself from the person until they make it right with you?
If I was a parent, and my child did something that was very hurtful and offensive to me, I won't stop loving my kid. I'd still be packing up his/her lunch, washing his/her laundry, cleaning up his/her room, provide for his/her needs and keep him/her safe. But I will become silent and cool towards him/her. I won't be cuddling or playing with him/her, or fawning all over him/her, nor say that he/she is a good kid. I will not pretend he/she didn't hurt nor offend me. I will make it very clear that I didn't like what he/she did. And until my kid apologizes and makes up for what he/she did, then I couldn't warm up to him/her. I want my child to change and not persist in his/her wrongdoing.
I'm not fond of using human examples, because I don't want to "humanize" our GOD, even in my own thoughts and perceptions. But our GOD has emotions, too. Our sinful acts GRIEVE HIM. HE doesn't dislike sin. HE HATES IT. So much, that HE had to send HIS pure and blameless, only begotten Son to die as the perfect sacrifice for our sin!!! For there is NO WAY for anyone to be restored unto GOD and HIS loving presence if sin is not cleansed and paid for with blood. And only the precious blood of our Holy LORD Jesus Christ could suffice. Let's NEVER forget this!!!
Let us now look at a clear display of the conviction of the Holy Spirit in the life of King David. Let us remember that he committed grave sins before GOD, one after the other. And those sins remained unconfessed and unrepented of, until his bestfriend Nathan confronts him of the sins he committed (here is a useful study of that chapter of than confrontation:
2 Samuel 12 - Nathan Confronts David)
Here is the psalm that shows how King David is being convicted of the Holy Spirit:
Psalm 51 King James Version (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
Can you feel his misery? He was so distressed, and felt so terrible for everything he did against GOD. He lost the joy of his salvation, and even felt as if the Holy Spirit might be taken away from him!!!
Our Loving Father GOD and KING truly doesn't want us to dwell in our past sins, specially those we have already submitted for HIM for forgiveness and cleansing, and we have repented of, regardless of how damaging and severely scarring those sins are. BUT....HE doesn't want us to behave like we haven't sinned against HIM anew when we have!!! HE wants us to feel miserable for committing those new sins against HIM. HE wants us to repent, and to desire HIS cleansing and renewal. HE doesn't tell us "Well done, my good and faithful servant!!!" after we commit sin. HE doesn't highlight the warmth of HIS love when we offend HIM. HE will never leave us nor forsake us, it's true. But HE grows cold and distant to us. It feels like there's a wall that makes it hard for us to pray, and a weight in our hearts that makes it hard for us to offer up our worship and praise. And these terrible feelings will remain, until we acknowledge our sin before HIM, ask for HIS forgiveness, and repent of our sin. Then HE hears us and draws near, and heals and restores us. Then we begin to experience the joy and sweetness of HIS presence once more.
I hope and pray that you would take the time to read and consider what I have shared here, brethren. It presses upon my heart, and I just can't stay silent. HIS truth has to be proclaimed, and HE has to be loved, praised, lifted up, and exalted, not just with our lips, but with our very lives, that we must live before HIM in complete humility, purity, meekness and awe.
GOD bless us all in our spiritual walk!!! All honor and glory, power and praise be unto HIM and HIM alone!!!
I know I've already posted a rather LONG post under this thread, but I just can't help but write another follow-up post. I don't normally do this, but i just feel so compelled, and I know and trust that it is the Holy Spirit that encourages me to do this. I hope and pray that you'd take the time to read this as well, and may it shed some light, and lead to GODly wisdom and understanding, all by HIS Amazing Grace and love.
First off, brother Mitspa, and all those who refuse to believe that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin, I would like to make clear that, when I say the Holy Spirit convicts, I don't mean HE condemns believers. No.
Chapter 8 of the Book of Romans in the New Testament is actually one of my favorite chapters, because it has given me a treasure trove of comfort and encouragement, and stands as an awesome reminder of the depth of GOD's love and mercy for us that HE saved and redeemed, and now call HIS own. To me, It is a chapter that sings of victory and courage, and of the unfathomable love and grace of GOD for HIS Church, that is FOREVER (and yes, I believe in eternal security in our GOD's perfect grace and mercy and love).
Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So, if this is the case, then what does it mean when the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin?
As a True Believer or a True Christian, even though we have been washed or cleansed of sin in our initial repentance, when we surrendered before GOD and asked HIM to be the GOD of our lives (all by the action of HIS Holy Spirit), I trust that we all agree that we find ourselves still occasionally commit sin after that event. Some of us have even become the prodigal at some point in their spiritual walk with GOD (I know I have. I've been a prodigal for quite a long time, before our Holy LORD revived me and set me on fire for HIM once again. That's why Romans 8 is such a personal chapter for me, and the truths that it reveals to me whenever I read it overwhelms me still. I could never fathom the beauty of GOD's grace and mercy and love for us all!!!).
Because we still sin, it is essential for us to come before GOD and humble ourselves in prayer, to acknowledge our new sins before HIM, to ask for forgiveness, and for grace to enable us to repent of those sins.
1 John 1:5-10 King James Version (KJV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Some of you might just repeat those same verses that highlight the fact that GOD has forgiven HIS children of their sins, past present and future, and that HE has forgotten it all. I do agree with those verses. It is such a great display of HIS love and grace and mercy to us that HIS forgiveness of our sins is COMPLETE, and that HE doesn't keep a record of our wrongs.
Psalm 103:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
But....does this mean HE wants us to forget the gravity of sin, and how much it offends HIM??? Does it mean we could just brush off our sinful acts, and behave as if we haven't offended our GOD, who we claim to now love and worship and adore because we have come to realize just how inexplicable and pure and beautiful and powerful and everlasting HIS love and grace and mercy is for us???
The answer is a resounding NO!!!
For those who are parents, or even simply those who have been wronged by their loved ones, let me ask you this: when someone does something very wrong to you, that caused you to feel absolutely hurt and wounded, what do you do?
1) Act like it's nothing?
2) Fawn over that person, and say "You're the best, and I love you so much!!!"?
3) Threaten the person with hurtful words, and basically ground them down into dust?
4) Make it very clear that you are hurt by showing it in your countenance, or express it clearly with words, then distance yourself from the person until they make it right with you?
If I was a parent, and my child did something that was very hurtful and offensive to me, I won't stop loving my kid. I'd still be packing up his/her lunch, washing his/her laundry, cleaning up his/her room, provide for his/her needs and keep him/her safe. But I will become silent and cool towards him/her. I won't be cuddling or playing with him/her, or fawning all over him/her, nor say that he/she is a good kid. I will not pretend he/she didn't hurt nor offend me. I will make it very clear that I didn't like what he/she did. And until my kid apologizes and makes up for what he/she did, then I couldn't warm up to him/her. I want my child to change and not persist in his/her wrongdoing.
I'm not fond of using human examples, because I don't want to "humanize" our GOD, even in my own thoughts and perceptions. But our GOD has emotions, too. Our sinful acts GRIEVE HIM. HE doesn't dislike sin. HE HATES IT. So much, that HE had to send HIS pure and blameless, only begotten Son to die as the perfect sacrifice for our sin!!! For there is NO WAY for anyone to be restored unto GOD and HIS loving presence if sin is not cleansed and paid for with blood. And only the precious blood of our Holy LORD Jesus Christ could suffice. Let's NEVER forget this!!!
Let us now look at a clear display of the conviction of the Holy Spirit in the life of King David. Let us remember that he committed grave sins before GOD, one after the other. And those sins remained unconfessed and unrepented of, until his bestfriend Nathan confronts him of the sins he committed (here is a useful study of that chapter of than confrontation:
2 Samuel 12 - Nathan Confronts David)
Here is the psalm that shows how King David is being convicted of the Holy Spirit:
Psalm 51 King James Version (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
Can you feel his misery? He was so distressed, and felt so terrible for everything he did against GOD. He lost the joy of his salvation, and even felt as if the Holy Spirit might be taken away from him!!!
Our Loving Father GOD and KING truly doesn't want us to dwell in our past sins, specially those we have already submitted for HIM for forgiveness and cleansing, and we have repented of, regardless of how damaging and severely scarring those sins are. BUT....HE doesn't want us to behave like we haven't sinned against HIM anew when we have!!! HE wants us to feel miserable for committing those new sins against HIM. HE wants us to repent, and to desire HIS cleansing and renewal. HE doesn't tell us "Well done, my good and faithful servant!!!" after we commit sin. HE doesn't highlight the warmth of HIS love when we offend HIM. HE will never leave us nor forsake us, it's true. But HE grows cold and distant to us. It feels like there's a wall that makes it hard for us to pray, and a weight in our hearts that makes it hard for us to offer up our worship and praise. And these terrible feelings will remain, until we acknowledge our sin before HIM, ask for HIS forgiveness, and repent of our sin. Then HE hears us and draws near, and heals and restores us. Then we begin to experience the joy and sweetness of HIS presence once more.
I hope and pray that you would take the time to read and consider what I have shared here, brethren. It presses upon my heart, and I just can't stay silent. HIS truth has to be proclaimed, and HE has to be loved, praised, lifted up, and exalted, not just with our lips, but with our very lives, that we must live before HIM in complete humility, purity, meekness and awe.
GOD bless us all in our spiritual walk!!! All honor and glory, power and praise be unto HIM and HIM alone!!!
Last edited:
A
AbbeyJoy
Guest
We had a Wednesday night prayer and last night (Wednesday) I was praying and also was sorta wishing a lot to God like I always had been wishing I was more understanding wishing I could do more and also was upset about certain things in my life I had done then..then when I got quite I had a thought come to me saying "you maybe a quiet person but you do think to much Stop thinking and start listening to me for your thoughts are not mine, Trust in me and stop worrying and think about what you are doing now." I knew it was Him and I'm going to live in the now and trust God for He has me and taking care of me
K
Karol777
Guest
Without reading the whole thread I think it is better compared to the Pharaoh who's heart was hardened 'by God'. So some ask then if God hardened his heart was he responsible.
The Hebraic understanding from what I have learned is that when Pharaoh was presented with the righteousness of God he hardened his own heart.., the goodness of God caused his heart to harden...not God. Kind of like we shield our eyes from the bright sunlight.
Just as when we are believers we feel conviction when we consider or are in the presence of how good God is.
Just something to consider.
The Hebraic understanding from what I have learned is that when Pharaoh was presented with the righteousness of God he hardened his own heart.., the goodness of God caused his heart to harden...not God. Kind of like we shield our eyes from the bright sunlight.
Just as when we are believers we feel conviction when we consider or are in the presence of how good God is.
Just something to consider.
Hello, everyone!!!
I know I've already posted a rather LONG post under this thread, but I just can't help but write another follow-up post. I don't normally do this, but i just feel so compelled, and I know and trust that it is the Holy Spirit that encourages me to do this. I hope and pray that you'd take the time to read this as well, and may it shed some light, and lead to GODly wisdom and understanding, all by HIS Amazing Grace and love.
First off, brother Mitspa, and all those who refuse to believe that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin, I would like to make clear that, when I say the Holy Spirit convicts, I don't mean HE condemns believers. No.
Chapter 8 of the Book of Romans in the New Testament is actually one of my favorite chapters, because it has given me a treasure trove of comfort and encouragement, and stands as an awesome reminder of the depth of GOD's love and mercy for us that HE saved and redeemed, and now call HIS own. To me, It is a chapter that sings of victory and courage, and of the unfathomable love and grace of GOD for HIS Church, that is FOREVER (and yes, I believe in eternal security in our GOD's perfect grace and mercy and love).
Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So, if this is the case, then what does it mean when the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin?
As a True Believer or a True Christian, even though we have been washed or cleansed of sin in our initial repentance, when we surrendered before GOD and asked HIM to be the GOD of our lives (all by the action of HIS Holy Spirit), I trust that we all agree that we find ourselves still occasionally commit sin after that event. Some of us have even become the prodigal at some point in their spiritual walk with GOD (I know I have. I've been a prodigal for quite a long time, before our Holy LORD revived me and set me on fire for HIM once again. That's why Romans 8 is such a personal chapter for me, and the truths that it reveals to me whenever I read it overwhelms me still. I could never fathom the beauty of GOD's grace and mercy and love for us all!!!).
Because we still sin, it is essential for us to come before GOD and humble ourselves in prayer, to acknowledge our new sins before HIM, to ask for forgiveness, and for grace to enable us to repent of those sins.
1 John 1:5-10 King James Version (KJV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Some of you might just repeat those same verses that highlight the fact that GOD has forgiven HIS children of their sins, past present and future, and that HE has forgotten it all. I do agree with those verses. It is such a great display of HIS love and grace and mercy to us that HIS forgiveness of our sins is COMPLETE, and that HE doesn't keep a record of our wrongs.
Psalm 103:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
But....does this mean HE wants us to forget the gravity of sin, and how much it offends HIM??? Does it mean we could just brush off our sinful acts, and behave as if we haven't offended our GOD, who we claim to now love and worship and adore because we have come to realize just how inexplicable and pure and beautiful and powerful and everlasting HIS love and grace and mercy is for us???
The answer is a resounding NO!!!
For those who are parents, or even simply those who have been wronged by their loved ones, let me ask you this: when someone does something very wrong to you, that caused you to feel absolutely hurt and wounded, what do you do?
1) Act like it's nothing?
2) Fawn over that person, and say "You're the best, and I love you so much!!!"?
3) Threaten the person with hurtful words, and basically ground them down into dust?
4) Make it very clear that you are hurt by showing it in your countenance, or express it clearly with words, then distance yourself from the person until they make it right with you?
If I was a parent, and my child did something that was very hurtful and offensive to me, I won't stop loving my kid. I'd still be packing up his/her lunch, washing his/her laundry, cleaning up his/her room, provide for his/her needs and keep him/her safe. But I will become silent and cool towards him/her. I won't be cuddling or playing with him/her, or fawning all over him/her, nor say that he/she is a good kid. I will not pretend he/she didn't hurt nor offend me. I will make it very clear that I didn't like what he/she did. And until my kid apologizes and makes up for what he/she did, then I couldn't warm up to him/her. I want my child to change and not persist in his/her wrongdoing.
I'm not fond of using human examples, because I don't want to "humanize" our GOD, even in my own thoughts and perceptions. But our GOD has emotions, too. Our sinful acts GRIEVE HIM. HE doesn't dislike sin. HE HATES IT. So much, that HE had to send HIS pure and blameless, only begotten Son to die as the perfect sacrifice for our sin!!! For there is NO WAY for anyone to be restored unto GOD and HIS loving presence if sin is not cleansed and paid for with blood. And only the precious blood of our Holy LORD Jesus Christ could suffice. Let's NEVER forget this!!!
Let us now look at a clear display of the conviction of the Holy Spirit in the life of King David. Let us remember that he committed grave sins before GOD, one after the other. And those sins remained unconfessed and unrepented of, until his bestfriend Nathan confronts him of the sins he committed (here is a useful study of that chapter of than confrontation:
2 Samuel 12 - Nathan Confronts David)
Here is the psalm that shows how King David is being convicted of the Holy Spirit:
Psalm 51 King James Version (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
Can you feel his misery? He was so distressed, and felt so terrible for everything he did against GOD. He lost the joy of his salvation, and even felt as if the Holy Spirit might be taken away from him!!!
Our Loving Father GOD and KING truly doesn't want us to dwell in our past sins, specially those we have already submitted for HIM for forgiveness and cleansing, and we have repented of, regardless of how damaging and severely scarring those sins are. BUT....HE doesn't want us to behave like we haven't sinned against HIM anew when we have!!! HE wants us to feel miserable for committing those new sins against HIM. HE wants us to repent, and to desire HIS cleansing and renewal. HE doesn't tell us "Well done, my good and faithful servant!!!" after we commit sin. HE doesn't highlight the warmth of HIS love when we offend HIM. HE will never leave us nor forsake us, it's true. But HE grows cold and distant to us. It feels like there's a wall that makes it hard for us to pray, and a weight in our hearts that makes it hard for us to offer up our worship and praise. And these terrible feelings will remain, until we acknowledge our sin before HIM, ask for HIS forgiveness, and repent of our sin. Then HE hears us and draws near, and heals and restores us. Then we begin to experience the joy and sweetness of HIS presence once more.
I hope and pray that you would take the time to read and consider what I have shared here, brethren. It presses upon my heart, and I just can't stay silent. HIS truth has to be proclaimed, and HE has to be loved, praised, lifted up, and exalted, not just with our lips, but with our very lives, that we must live before HIM in complete humility, purity, meekness and awe.
GOD bless us all in our spiritual walk!!! All honor and glory, power and praise be unto HIM and HIM alone!!!
I think you should use lightly the words "i just feel so compelled, and I know and trust that it is the Holy Spirit that encourages me to do this", especially is the case when in time you come to realize what you've written is incorrect.
That may be arrogant, from your perspective, of me to say but God has one mouth. He has many ways to say something but it won't be contradictory. Someone can say the Holy Spirit led them to the truth of no conviction and all the while you could say the same for conviction. God won't contradict Himself on truth.
There are a couple things in what you've written that I take issue with, because it doesn't align with God's Word, nor His grace. For example, I will make some bulletins down below to show you...
- You contradict yourself on repentance, you say God forgives us of all sin, past, present, and future. However, you just prior and even after, say that we are to confess our sins to God and repent of them. Are we already forgiven or upon the moment of confession? If after the moment of confession, then what good is the blood of Jesus and are you not just making it common (as the blood of bulls and goats, yearly repentance by Israel)?
- Grieving the Holy Spirit (God). You say we offend Him with our sin. No, He is grieved because it hurts us. Not that we grieve Him because we offend Him but because He cares for you and your well-being and knows that such sin has negative consequences in your life.
- You said, and I quote, "HE wants us to feel miserable for committing those new sins against HIM." No, He doesn't, He wants us to walk with our heads held high and chin up. He wants us to be confident before him, not wallowing in sadness and in grievance for our sins. Our sins are washed! They have been given to Christ and He has given us righteousness! We are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ! This is how God want us to feel... (read down below)
1 John 3:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
God doesn't want you to think on sin, He wants you think upon Jesus Christ. He wants you to grow in the knowledge and grace of His Son and your Savior Jesus Christ. It goes along the lines of "Awaken to righteousness and sin not." A revelation of God's grace is what frees you from sin, "for you are not under law but grace." Sin shall not have dominion over you!
These things press upon your heart because you have religious chains squeezing the life out. Though you are sincere and worry for your brethren it is rooted with a condemnation within yourself. If you knew grace, you would not worry for your brethren. You would worry to what degree of revelation they have of God's grace so that they may reign in life, but you would not worry for the sake of their soul.
PS: When we sin, what does happen is the Holy Spirit can convict people of their righteousness in Christ so that they may awake to righteousness. They realize that their life does not align with who they now are in Him. All through the NT you see Paul, basically, saying, "Dont you know who you are?" He doesn't condemn them, he points them to who Christ is, what He has done for them, and who they now are in Him. The apostles always encouraged and admonished the saints to "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." In the same way, we all need to.
P
psychomom
Guest
you dear, kind man.
just wanted to say i'm sorry your child is suffering,
and i will pray for you all. ♥
G
guardmyheart
Guest
If you believe that God forgives Past, Present, and FUTURE all at once...
First, God chastises His CHILDREN...
Hebrews 12:6 "For Whom the Lord Loves He Chastens"
Proverbs 3:12 "For whom the Lord loves He reproves, even as the Father corrects the son."
Revelation 3:19 "All whom I hold dear, I reprove and chastise"
Second, When God Forgives, He FORGETS
Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for my own sake, and will not remember thy sins"
Hebrews 10:17 "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more"
Hebrews 8:12 "I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more"
Do NOT muddy the water with man made doctrines.
If God is chastising a child for their sin, He sees the sin and it is not yet forgiven.
It is not yet forgiven because God blotteth out transgressions and forgets sin... and the relationship is restored to peace with God.
Also, God is FAITHFUL (He will always do it) and Just (His death on the cross pays for it) to forgive us of our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
First, God chastises His CHILDREN...
Hebrews 12:6 "For Whom the Lord Loves He Chastens"
Proverbs 3:12 "For whom the Lord loves He reproves, even as the Father corrects the son."
Revelation 3:19 "All whom I hold dear, I reprove and chastise"
Second, When God Forgives, He FORGETS
Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for my own sake, and will not remember thy sins"
Hebrews 10:17 "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more"
Hebrews 8:12 "I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more"
Do NOT muddy the water with man made doctrines.
If God is chastising a child for their sin, He sees the sin and it is not yet forgiven.
It is not yet forgiven because God blotteth out transgressions and forgets sin... and the relationship is restored to peace with God.
Also, God is FAITHFUL (He will always do it) and Just (His death on the cross pays for it) to forgive us of our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The goodness of God leads to repentance . . . Rom. 2:4.
Scripture disagrees with your 'Hebraic understanding'.
-JGIG
To BenFTW:
I appreciate how you took time to reply to my post, and highlighted the things you disagree with. Thank you!!!
I truly have yet to learn A LOT more about Scripture, that is for certain. I want to keep myself open for correction and instruction, and in no way do I want to become high minded and careless, as I was years before I became a Prodigal.
I just want to clarify some things that you have obviously misunderstood about me and what I posted.
1) I am NOT religious. At least, not as much as I'd like to be. I don't have a church that I could attend at present (and I haven't had one for quite a number of years already). I know I may sound so fanatical, being so over zealous with my posts, but I don't FEEL religious at all. In fact, I struggle a lot with my own personal sins, that I submit daily to GOD in prayer, and ask HIM to give me strength and grace to overcome and completely repent of. If it seemed like I am some kind of Bible-thumping person because of my post, well, that's a mistaken assumption. I'm very passionate about HIS Word, and I desire to worship HIM with my life, and encourage others as much as I can, though.
2) I DON'T worry about other people's souls. There is NO WAY for me to know who are GOD's and who are not. Everyone has a personal walk with Christ, and I DON'T judge other people's spiritual state based on their posts and opinions. Most of all, I don't feel compelled that I have to save anyone. In fact, I am well aware I don't have that power, nor are we called to do the saving, but merely to share the Gospel of Christ, and to minister to the brethren. To exhort, reprove, and rebuke with the aid of HIS Word, if need be.
3) I do care about others, and what presses upon me is the need to share what GOD has revealed to me in HIS Word. When I discover something that is profound and truly meaningful, that has led me to be humbled before HIM, I just can't stay silent. I have to share it. I may be wrong that it's the Holy Spirit pushing me to share, but I trust that it is, because my usual attitude is that of fear and worry and doubt in posting anything serious in the forums (because I feel I don't have what it takes to make meaningful biblical posts). It is HIS courage and zeal that moves me, not mine. And I want to truly give HIM all the credit, because HE deserves it. Plus, I DON'T like to fight, nor argue, nor debate, specially with brethren. That's why I avoid making posts, unless I am compelled to do so.
4) I believe that, even though we are already safe and secure in our standing before GOD, and we don't have to dwell on the sins we committed in the past (which sometimes I still say sorry to GOD when I remember, because I felt that I wasted so many years of my life in those terrible sins, but am aware that HE has forgiven me already), I believe it's not wise to have an unrepentant heart in the face of new sins committed. Sure, HE wants us to walk with full confidence, knowing that we are HIS children, HIS saints, and heirs to HIS kingdom, co-heirs with our LORD Jesus Christ. But even though we have the righteousness of our LORD Jesus Christ because of HIS shed blood upon the Cross, it doesn't mean we should behave as if we are ALREADY perfect, and no longer commit sins. We still do, every single day. It's because our hearts are corrupt beyond measure. So it is essential for True Christians to have a repentant attitude, and it's GOD's Holy Spirit that teaches us ALL THINGS. Part of how HE teaches us is by exposing the sinful and dark parts of our lives, and making us desire HIS righteousness and holiness.
5) I do NOT look down on Jesus Christ's sacrifice upon the Cross!!! Oh my.... I NEVER want to downgrade what HE has done for us all, nor sound as if I do not rely on HIS grace for our lives. There is NO WAY I could save myself, and there is NO WAY I could get myself unsaved either. I am 100% against works-based salvation, and I believe in eternal security. You are wrong to assume I still condemn myself (I used to do that years ago, before HE revived me). I said Romans 8 is my favorite chapter, and I meant it. I understand and accept what our GOD teaches with the measure of faith HE has given me.
6) In NO WAY did I suggest that we Christians wallow in defeat and despair, focusing our all on our sins. Again, I will emphasize that Romans 8 is my favorite chapter. We, as true Christians, who are GOD's children and heirs to HIS kingdom, must be joyful and confident in GOD and HIS promises to us that HE loves. But that chapter also emphasizes walking after the Spirit, which is a walk of righteousness and holiness. Not of complete disregard or carelessness for one's actions. I was emphasizing the importance of acknowledging our NEW sins before GOD (please note I said NEW sins. There is truly no point dwelling on sins in the past), and asking for forgiveness and repentance for those sins, SO THAT OUR WALK/FELLOWSHIP/RELATIONSHIP WILL NOT SUFFER. That's why I highlighted King David's experience when he was convicted of the Holy Spirit for the sins he didn't repent and didn't ask forgiveness for earlier. It is important that our hearts be cleansed daily of sin, because we are still living in sinful flesh. Our souls are secure because the Seal of the Holy Spirit is upon us. The curse and power of sin and death has been defeated by our LORD Jesus Christ's death and resurrection!!! But we are still capable of committing sins while in this body. Is it wrong that we desire to have a clean heart before GOD? What state makes it easier for us to pray and worship GOD? When we have a clean heart with its sin cleansed off of it, or with an unrepentant heart? When we submit our NEW sins before GOD for forgiveness and cleansing, we are having our hearts purified anew. The guilt/burden brought about by the sin is taken away, and joy and peace in our heart and mind is restored. Please read Psalm 51, and see why King David asked for a clean a heart and to have his spirit in HIM renewed.
7) I did NOT mean that GOD wants to torture us by wanting us to feel bad when we commit sin. But we SHOULD feel bad, don't you think so? Because when HE quickened us, HE gave us a heart that now lives for and loves HIM. It is the action of HIS Holy Spirit. HE is grieved when we sin, because we did something that HE detests and hates. HIS love and grace and mercy doesn't depart from us, neither does HIS Holy Spirit. But HE does not hide it when we displease HIM either. That's why HE let's us reap the consequences of our sin, even after we have been saved (which does NOT include eternal condemnation, because we are already HIS own, and HE doesn't make us unsaved, nor disowns us when we sin). Everything we go through after we sin (heaviness of the heart, difficulty in praying and worshipping HIM, facing trials and complications because of our actions), HE allows us to go through because HE wants us to draw near to HIM, humble ourselves and pray for forgiveness, and leads us further into repentance of those sins (repent = no longer commit the sin). It is part of the sanctification process that the Holy Spirit is working inside of us.
GOD LOVE US SO!!! HE came to seek and save those who are lost (we WERE one of them). But it doesn't stop there. HE is changing and sanctifying us daily, through HIS Holy Spirit. Teaching us to live righteous and holy lives. HE doesn't condone our sinful ways. HE chastens us, and reminds us what HE desires for us to be and to do. Conviction is NOT condemnation. And repenting of our sins DOES NOT put our LORD Jesus Christ's sacrifice to shame. To desire to be pure in heart and mind before GOD in everything we say and do, to me, is loving GOD and honoring HIS ways. And to share what HE imparts to us, to me, is loving others.
Hebrews 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
GOD bless us and guide us all daily in Christ Jesus our LORD!!!
M
Mitspa
Guest
I see some who write about what they think Gods word should say and then seem to try cherry pick a few random scriptures to make the bible match their lack of understanding. We as believers do not change the truth of scripture to match what we think it should say, we believe what is says and it changes us. Now if some would read the bible and its account of the Holy Spirit work on our behalf as comforter and as a witness to us of who we are in Christ...not who we are in the flesh...You would grow in a new relationship with God and be more than you could ever hope to be by having all this sin on your conscience....believe the clear and evident words of the bible...become a fool and God will make you wise.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Why do we have "Christians" that don't act like children of God? Because they are in the flesh and cannot see who God has made them in Christ, in the Spirit. "two cannot walk together unless they agree"...those who have been taught the Holy Spirit is following them around, finding their sins...are not in a true relationship with the Holy Spirit and are not able to draw from the Spirit the power and life to overcome the weakness of their flesh. Its those who know the Holy Spirit is always there to justify and give grace that overcome the flesh and the lust in this world...
Basically a half-saved sinner will act like a half-saved sinner...
A righteous child of God will act like a righteous child of God!
Basically a half-saved sinner will act like a half-saved sinner...
A righteous child of God will act like a righteous child of God!